I opened a new checking account with BB&T today. I've had my business acount with them for years and I know the banker so I decided to switch my personal account to them. I asked "will you pull a credit report to open this account"? He said "Oh no we use Check systems and dont need a credit report on you, since we want your business and I know you, we wont need a credit report. Well he enters my info and says Oh Wow, my screen says you are pre-approved for $3000 in overdraft protection and a Plat credit card with a $10,000 limit. He said thats the highest amount he had ever seen in an instant preapproval and would I like the cards, I said sure why not ($13,000 and no inquires- sounded great). He also told me, Hey your Beacon score is 790. Did you know that? I started to smell something fishy, I get home and DAMM I got a hard inquiry from BBT on my Equifax report. My score didnt drop from that inquiry it is still the same as yesterday. Wait until I chew his butt out on Friday, that was an out and out lie, they pulled the score before I said Yes I'll take the overdraft and your credit card. I think I'm going to fight this one, anyone else have a similar experience? JohnM
A few ideas... (1) He honestly did not know. (2) Chex systems pulls a report on the bank's behalf. (3) The bank or Chex pulls a credit report when they find no record on Chex as an alternative source of information.
John- There is no way any bank will approve OD or credit card approval without a hard inquiry to one's credit report....even if you're rockefeller...lol... as an ex-banker the only thing I can tell here is that the guy honestly didn't know how the system worked...he is in the branch to sell....that's about all branch people do today as they have no authority anymore. I would call customer service...ask for a supervisor 'cause a green bean rep isn't going to be able to help you....and ask for the inquiry to be deleted....as it was done expressly against your wishes. If that doesn't help....then start sending the nasty letters....of course, given they approved you for credit and OD protection...people are going to assume you asked for it....but what the hell....it doesn't hurt to try. hope this helps. clc
I agree he didn't know that a hard inquiry was to be pulled. The thing that pissed me off is that I didn't want or need another credit card or overdraft protection. I only asked for a simple checking account. He really was a nice guy, he waived all fees, gave me free checks, a free lolipop, and was very helpful but he was wrong. His ignorance could cost me. The banks software was set to automatically try and offer you these extra items even when I told him "If you need to pull a hard inquiry for just a checking account, I'll stay were I am". He didn't type in anything to initiate the extra services the software automatically sent him a message saying hey this guy is "pre approved" for the following. I do keep a fairly large corporate balance with them, but I aint no Rockerfelller <g>, more like your local small merchant. I think I may have a good case in getting it changed to a soft because he told me three times that they wouldn't pull that hard. I only accepted the additional services in order to make my % of credit used better in hopes of raising my scores a little. I'm old enough to know, If it sounds too good to be true, dont believe it. I just got greedy and suspected that I'd see a hard when I checked. I was surprised that my score didnt drop even one point from the inquiry, it is the only one showing on ny EQ report. I'll check late today to make sure that is still true. JohnM
The drops for inquiries are based on where your credit profile first begins. You're at the highest segment so your score is fine even after the inquiry. And... since you did initiate a business transaction... they're totally within the fcra definition of "permissible purpose" whether or not they even have your signature (but, let me guess ... you signed an application... So I definitely understand your frustration. I wouldn't like being lied to either. I also agree they don't need to check credit for a checking account... but most banks now do. (So you might as well expect it). As for the "Beacon score"... well, that's clearly a credit-based score so what did he think he was looking at on your profile? That's odd. I've always been told that if you apply for just a checking account and they don't pull credit.. that if you apply for overdraft then you get a credit pull. But if you didn't want anything but the checking account... ask him for a letter removing the inquiry (if he can). That would solve it all (better yet, ask for Universal Data Form with a removal of the inquiry)... a UDF is a sure sign it'll get removed. Good luck. Bottom line, no matter how irritated we get at these... they can do them. To make you feel better, Suntrust pulled 4, yes 4 hard inquiries on me off Equifax for a checking account only and no overdraft. They said it was in error but they have yet to correct it. I did take a hit since my score started in the 670s... And I didn't even get Platinum or a good night kiss out of it
When I did my FHA "streamline refinance" for my mortgage a couple of years ago, I went from Chase to BB&T. The rules for a streamline refi say that there is NO credit check, income verification, etc. However, sure enough -- my CR has a Hard inq from BB&T. I didn't fight it, because I didn't know better at the time and it'll drop off soon anyway. It only showed up on my EQ report. I like BB&T and their commercials say that local branches have "descision authority"...but I don't see how that's possible. They seem to be growing quite rapidly in the DC area! As always...
marie, yes, I signed an app, after he told me I was preapproved and he had my Beacon score, I fiqured the damage was done, take the money and fight later. I dont know how he thought they got a credit score without pulling an inquiry, thats what tipped me off that i'd find one when I got on Credit Watch. The worst thing about the whole experience is after reading this board for a few months, I now consider myself a knowledgable consumer, even after asking the right questions, I was still shafted by the system. Although I personally can't offer you a platinum card at this time, the good night kiss is in the realm of the possible, after that we could see if you qualify as an AU on my Amex <g> JohnM
Heres a update to the story: Talked to the branch manager, the new software upgrade installed last week pulls a hard on every product they sell. If you open a savings account, they pull a hard, a CD another one, line of credit, anything they sell triggers an inquiry. If you came in ten days in a row and got a new product each day you would end up with ten inquires!! They had an overide key on the old software that is no longer an option. I tried to open a savings accouny with them yesterday and they said I can't do it without a hard inquiry. I spoke to the manager at my old branch she told me they've had other discussions about pulling a report without something signed first, She was questioning corp about the possiblity that they were violating the law. They pull the report and then get you to sign the app, because the computer prints the app filled out with your info. She thought that was a violation and was not comfortable with the policy. She gave me the number of the senior operations manager for Virginia , I called, explained the situation. Told her in my opion they were violating the law when they pulled a credit report when I told them not to, she agreed they have a potential problem if someone was a "litiguos nutcase" and wanted to sue over this. Bottom line, within 30 minutes she called back and said a form had been faxed to EQ stating the inquiry was in error and they want it removed. I also got a very nice apology and was told that a savings account was being opened without an inquiry by the main corp. office and they apprciated my business. Thay also are reviewing the policy to insure that them are in compliance and will make whatever changes are needed. They all seem shocked that I could pull my report and within minutes of the application tell that an inquiry had been added and know how many points it had cost me. (actually no drop in score- it was my only inquiry and it didn't cost me any points???WTH??) They also said you seem to really know the ins and out of the credit system. (using hard v soft inquiry, AR inquiry, permissable purpose, etc,) I just blew it off as being an imformed consumer (I wasn't going to tell THEM about this board, my secret weapon in a fight against the forces of the true evil axis (OC's, CA'c, CRA's) JohnM ps - I really like the term "litiguos nutcase" maybe someday I'll learn to spell it right <g>
I understand the feeling. Sometimes I wish I were back in the position of just "trusting" the system instead of knowing what's really going on in it. As for their concerns on permissible purpose, actually, the FCRA refers "permissible purpose" to "eligibility for" services etc. All they need is a firm intention to do business by a consumer with them and they can pull an inquiry with or without a signature. If someone takes the time to give them their name, address, dob, and ssn... that's a good indication of intention. However, to be safest, they need every new customer to sign something first. It will save any hassles. As for existing customers, BB&T can pull whatever they want to on an existing customer... anytime, in any form. Have your friends at the bank read the FCRA several times and they'll feel better. However, they are justifiably concerned that the hard pulls will offend someone who wants multiple products. After all, if I knew (and I do now) that BB&T will ruin my file with inquiries and I'll have to spend my time getting them off, I wouldn't do business with (or continue to do business with) them... it puts them out of the running for me because there are plenty of other banks who aren't that crazy. May I also suggest that you suggest to them that their credit report provider is "churning" their account so as to maximize pulls and thus cra revenue. When you explain it to them that way, the bank will be more likely to redo their agreement with the cra ... they understand the 'bottom line'. I mean really... I walk in and want a cd and they'll pull my credit? Please... Another aspect of this BB&T may not yet have considered is this. For a customer with pristine credit (high 700s - 800s), the inquiries will hurt less but will eventually accumulate and negatively impact them for 12 mos. But for a prime customer (one solidly in the high 600s to low 700s) who will qualify for their offers without numerous inquiries... those inquiries will impact their score more than it will yours. Meaning: BB&T is in the business of selling more products to its existing customers...however, their own practice of littering their own customers' files with inquiries may affect the score just enough to 1. reject an applicant for a credit card/ loc/ mortgage 2. yield unfavorable terms for a credit card/loc/ mortgage when the applicant would have been granted better terms before BB&T introduced multiple inquiries 3. Cost BB&T the very additional business it requires to grow... again, a bottom line, common sense reason to change its system to put soft inquiries on current customers' files. Besides, I am guessing it's all score driven so why pay for a full file when an abridged one may be cheaper .. another bottom line reason So if you like your bankers, you may explain to them the intricacies of permissible purpose and put their minds at ease. It's not like a car dealership where you want to test drive but not necessarily buy... once a customer decides they want a product then BB&T has permissible purpose. But if I go in and keep adding products to my profile, then see that BB&T is all over my report... I may no longer desire those products As for the very sweet potential Amex AU offer... I must inform you that only Platinum Amex cardholders are eligible to apply for this service at this time
The only oddball thought I have on this is that there may be a slightly sinnister motive. Say you move into town and you start banking with BB&T. You get a checking, savings and maybe even a credit card. Then you start shopping mortgages... your score will be lowered by BB&Ts practices. You'll be offered less attractive offers for the next 12 mos... so, does that better insure you'll stay away from BB&T's competitors because your score has been artificially lowered for you by BB&T... you could lose 1/8 to 1/4 of a point or more if your profile bordered a score but was lowered. Honestly, this practice could cost a good consumer a lot of money over time... and if the customer found out they'd been sunk by this practice after receiving a higher rate.. now that is a lawsuit ( and a big one with the 30 year interest impact)... perhaps you can casually explain the realities... that a ticked off customer or 2 can call the investigative reporting teams of the town... cry how BB&T ruined their chances for the best mortage... cost them money for 30 years... all over a few basic banking products... If I were BB&T, I'd be more concerned with the public image of BB&T taking advantage of the consumer and artificially lowering scores than anything... As an aside: I'm seeing more banks litter files with hard inquiries... this may be the next tactic we face as the system makes us look less credit worthy than we really are so we may be artificially charged more for the credit we do receive... You can also appeal to BB&T's higher ups with the ethical side. After all, does BB&T really want to punish a good customer with lots of BB&T products for a full 12 mos simply because that person chose to form multiple relationships with BB&T...? Is that how they reward their best customer relationships? I actually hope you write a very nice, detailed letter to BB&T and send it all the way up the chain... how you appreciate them fixing your issue but how you're concerned that less educated consumers will be harmed and that BB&T is really putting its reputation on the line with these practices... and you'd hate to see a good bank's reputation tarnished because of this.... etc etc
That was one of my main points to the supervisor I spoke with, you want to PUNISH me when I want to do more business with you ?? What kind of business policy is that. As to their right to pull a report. I would think my specific instruction that I do not authorize you to pull my report, If you need to do that, I do not want the account, I'll stay at my current bank Thank, you very much. I agree that a customer who supplies the info without making a similar statement would lose the right to have the inquiry removed, it would be a permissable purpose. That was another of my main points. I told them not to do it and they did it anyway. BB&T bought out my old bank F&M and the branch magr I had dealt with for ten years quit. The "old school" banks have all been eatem up in mega-merger deals, This big players dont seem to give a tinkers damm about the customer. I keep an average balance in my corp account in the low 6 figure range. This idiots want to piss me off, Yes, they could care less, the branch people have less and less authority and it seems they have to call corporate to order toilet paper. {end rant mode}
Frankly, your position as a long-term Business customer gives you more credibility and more power to assert your opinion and have it listened to... that's why I'm hoping someone in your position (not just a consumer but also someone with a hefty business account) will actually put this in writing and send it as high as it will go in the corporate ladder. Frustrating... I agree. But the idealist in me hopes that if enough people point out these flaws... BB&T will change
John, =================================== the branch people have less and less authority and it seems they have to call corporate to order toilet paper. =================================== You hit the nail right on the head. As we discussed in chat...branch people are low man on the totem pole now. Their basic function is to sell, sell and sell some more. They no longer have any authority to make loans, extend credit lines etc.. The core of mega-banks today is the "relationship" customer....the more accounts you have with the bank the "deeper" your relationship. The idea behind this is that if you get pissed off at the bank closing all your accounts would be such a hassle that you would take some time and cool off. In essence you are in so deep that you are committed to the bank. As I told you the secret to dealing with them if you are a "relationship" customer is to find the right person in the chain. It seems you did just that and I'm not a bit surprised that you accomplished your goal. When I worked as a corporate banker I saw bigger deals than a hard inq. reversed to please a relationship customer. Great job! Now you are more aware of what their software does and can combat it....and don't forget the regulation cc chat....never let a bank float your money! clc
GEORGE- There is no permissable purpose and it should be reversed if done....the only permissable purposes would be for credit products. The problem here is the bank branch software seems to be doing a hard inq without the customers approval in order to see if they qualify for a credit product....this should be stopped. The way to stop it is to educate consumers like this board does.... clc
My question exactly and that was one of the issues that one branch manager was worried about. (I spoke to three different ones) She asked me to call her district operations manager and complain, she was uncomfortable with the system as it was and felt it might violate the law. I like the suggestion of a letter to the legal department or President of BB&T. I have decided to print out the posts in this thread and send them in. Iâ??ll keep the board updated on BB&Tâ??s response, if any. I believe the opinions expressed here sum up the issues and feelings of a group of consumers who are first of all knowledgeable regarding credit issues, and secondly are a bunch of â??litigious nutcasesâ? who go around looking for violations so they can sue the evil doers of the world and make money at the same time! JohnM Note to BB&T The part about â??litigious nutcasesâ? is an inside joke around here. But it isnâ??t far from the truth â?? Watch your back â?? Violate the law and someone is going to sue you â?? Not me Iâ??m too mellow and you fixed my problem promptly â?? But Iâ??m not too sure about the rest of this group!
