I had a recent cc chargeoff and the account has been purchased by an investor, given to a CA to collect, who had a lawyer contact me. I've already gotten their letter and all appears to be in order. This is a valid debt that I found myself unable to pay due to business failure. I need to send the debt validation letter today, Friday. I've been looking through your site and others, and am unclear on a few points. 1. Knowing that this is a valid debt, do I still claim its not? And if so, why? 2. When I look at these debt validation letters, there is a long list of things they are requesting validation for. Should I just add them all, or pick which ones seem to apply to my situation? 3. Some accounts are assigned, some purchased, and I don't know what else. When going through this process, what does this mean to me? If its purchased, rather than assigned, how does it affect the overall process? Are you equally liable for the amount of the debt no matter how its transferred to a CA? 4. When I request proof of license/bonding in my state and their state, what constitutes proof? Do I request it of the lawfirm, the CA, AND the investment company which purchased it? Should this request be in the first letter? 5. Do you only get one shot at this debt validation thing (within the 30 day period)? What if you forgot to request some information the first time?
You said you weren't able to pay it because of business failure. Was this account a personal debt, or a business debt? The answer is a major difference. The FDCPA only provides protection for consumer debts, not business debts, so the rules are completely different for business debts.
Thank you so much for the answers. I made up my letter, sent one to the lawfirm and one to the collection agency, and sent express overnight with return receipt requested. However, the post office told me I couldn't do certified. I don't understand that. Forgot to answer one of the questions. It was for business purchases, however, it was on my personal charge. Thank you again... sure didn't want to screw this up!
As long as it was a personal account, it should be covered... There is a post which has an article from 'the enemy' ACA (a Collection Agency industry association), which actually talks about validation letters like the CN debt validation letter (although it doesn't mention it by name), and some of the stuff that it asks for, and while there are some parts of it which is based on out-of-date case law (before the FDCPA's last revisions). There is a lot of it which has valid points. It's talked about in this thread. I've made some corrections of it, as well as some other posters.
<< 1. Knowing that this is a valid debt, do I still claim its not? And if so, why? 2. When I look at these debt validation letters, there is a long list of things they are requesting validation for. Should I just add them all, or pick which ones seem to apply to my situation Jean ==================== 1*YES you do because it's your right to demand proof of their claim. What you know has nothing to do with it. 2*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here is the Validation Letter you want to send by CRRR. Don't make any changes on it and don't hand sign it. Your Name Address City State Zip Company Address City State Zip Date RE: Account #_________/Original Creditorâ??s Name Dear Sir/Madame: Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please complete and return the attached disclosure request form. Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you. You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States Mail System might constitute mail fraud under federal and state law. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me. Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees. Sincerely, Your Name don't sign - - - Include the following on a separate sheet of paper - - - CREDITOR DISCLOSURE STATEMENT Name and Address of Collector (assignee): _________________________ Name and Address of Debtor: ____________________________________ Account Number(s): ____________________________________________ What are the terms of assignment for this account? You may attach a facsimile of any records relating to such terms. Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor or assignee regarding this account? YES/NO Has the purported balanced of this account been used in any tax deduction claim? YES/NO Please list the particular products or services sold by the collector to the debtor and the dollar amount of each: Upon failure or refusal of collector to validate this collection action, collector agrees to waive all claims against the debtor named herein and pay debtor for all costs and attorney fees involved in defending this collection action. ________________________________ Authorized signature for Collector Date_______/_______/_______ Please return this completed form and attach all assignment or other transfer agreements that would establish your right to collect this debt. Your claim cannot be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with the required documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If you do not respond as required by this law, your claim will not be considered and you may be liable for damages for continued collection efforts. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Re: Re: Debt Validation questions You don't need certified mail if you sent it express mail since the express mail must be signed for when it is received. The PO has the receipt in case you need it. The tracking number on the express mail has the same effect as the certified mail tracking number
Certified Mail may only be combined with First Class mail or Priority Mail (you said you used express?) (that's from the back of the CM form )
Certified Mail may only be combined with First Class mail or Priority Mail (that's from the back of the CM form ) Maybe that could be the reason...
Unfortunately, I already sent my letters as I only had a few days left. For the most part I followed the letters I've seen on this site and one other, so I think I'm ok. Just waiting for the response now. Thanks for the explanation of the certified thing. Without asking you to go into any detail, as I know this can be very time-consuming, what are my next steps? 1. If they send everything as requested 2. If they don't send everything as requested Once I'm sure of my next steps, I'll spend the time and look up the why's and how's... just need some direction to make sure I don't forget anything important. Thanks, Jean
Here is my letter as I sent it, and their reply. Date: July 16, 2004 Re: Acct # (used their account #, not the original debt acct #) To Whom It May Concern: This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on June 18, 2004. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested. I assume you are aware of this act and that I have the right to request validation of the debt you say I owe. I am hereby requesting proof that I am indeed the party you are asking to pay this debt, and that there is some contractual obligation which is legally binding on me to pay this debt. This is not a request for â??verificationâ? or proof of my mailing address, but a request for validation made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have a legal obligation to you in this matter. You should also be aware that reporting invalidated information to major credit bureaus (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) might constitute fraud under Federal and State Law. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for any/all of the following: * Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act * Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act * Defamation of Character * Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud Pending the outcome of my investigation of any evidence you submit, you are instructed to take no action that could be detrimental to any of my credit reports. Under the FDCPA, once a consumer attempts validation of an alleged debt, all collection activity must cease and desist. This includes listing an account with a credit reporting repository that is inaccurate and invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when there is no provided proof that it is. If you do not respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of this request, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me within 5 business days. I am asking, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your office to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me must be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter. Any future calls by telephone will be recorded. It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to verify and/or correct your records, and any information obtained shall be used for that purpose. CREDITOR/DEBT COLLECTOR DISCLOSURE STATEMENT Name of Original Creditor: ____________________________________________________ Address of Original Creditor: __________________________________________________ Phone Number of Original Creditor: ______________________________________________ Name of Assigned/Purchasing Creditor: ___________________________________________________ Address of Assigned/Purchasing Creditor: _____________________________________________________ Phone Number of Assigned/Purchasing Creditor: ____________________________________________ Contact Name and Phone Number: ___________________________________________________ This Debt was: Assigned Purchased Date: ________________________ Name of Contracted Collection Agency: ____________________________________________________ Address of Contracted Collection Agency: __________________________________________________ Phone Number of Contracted Collection Agency: _______________________________________________ Contact Name and Phone Number: ___________________________________________________ Name of Contracted Lawfirm: ________________________________________________________ Address of Contracted Lawfirm: ______________________________________________________ Phone Number of Contracted Lawfirm: ___________________________________________________ Contact Name and Phone Number: _____________________________________________________ Name and Address of Bonding Agent:______________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor regarding this account? YES NO Have any judgments been obtained by any creditor regarding this account? YES NO DEBT VALIDATION Name of Debtor: _______________________________________________________________ Account #: ___________________________________________________________________ Address of Debtor: _____________________________________________________________ Amount of debt purported to be owed: ______________________________________________ Date alleged debt became payable: ________________________________________________ Was this debt assigned to debt collector or purchased? ________________________________ Amount paid if debt was purchased: ________________________________________________ Commission for debt collector if collection efforts are successful: _________________________ CREDIT REPORTING Indicate any credit bureaus to which you have reported negative marks, and what was reported to them. Experian: ___ _______________________________________________________________________ Equifax: ___ _______________________________________________________________________ TransUnion: ___ _______________________________________________________________________ Other: ___ _______________________________________________________________________ PLEASE ATTACH THE FOLLOWING: Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect this alleged debt. Signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector. Any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor. All statements while this account was open. Proof of licensing and bonding to collect debts in both Arizona and Wisconsin. ______________________________________ Authorized Signature For Creditor Date Please return a copy of this completed letter and form and attach all requested information, assignment or other transfer agreements, which would establish your right to collect this alleged debt within 30 days from the date of this letter. Your claim cannot be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with copies of all requested documents. Failure to provide this proof will be assumed an admission that this claim is not valid. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If you do not respond as required by law, your claim will not be considered and you may be liable for damages for continued collection efforts. Sincerely, (Signed but slightly different than regular signature) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Here is their reply to me: July 22, 2004 My Name & Address Re: Creditor: Worldwide Asset Management, LLC (purchaser); Account Number: (their account number); Original Creditor: Metris; Total Amount Claimed Due: $___ Dear Ms. _: As you know, this law firm represents Worldwide Asset Management, LLC who has purchased and been assigned the right to collect the amounts due pursuant to an agreement you entered into with Metris. The account was placed with our office on June 15, 2004. The current balance claimed due and owing is $___. Because of interest, late charges and other charges that may apply to this account, the amount due varies from day to day. Please be advised that the original account number assigned to your Metris credit card was ___. This account was opened in September 1995 and was ultimately charged off on May 31, 2004, due to non-payment. The last payment made on this account was on September 30, 2003, in the amount of $450. In response to your recent correspondence, verification of this debt has been requested from our client. This information may take 60 to 90 days to obtain. The FDCPA does not place a time limit on providing this information. Once verification is received, it will be forwarded to you. This is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. This letter is from a debt collector. Very truly yours, Kathryn A. Neuheisel - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I sent the letter to both the lawfirm (Neuheisel) and the credit collection agency they were representing (Collect American collection Vehicle), but not to the company which purchased the debt (Worldwide Asset Management). As of today, 8/13, this letter is the only response I've received. My question is on the third paragraph, where they state "In response to your recent correspondence, verification of this debt has been requested from our client. This information may take 60 to 90 days to obtain. The FDCPA does not place a time limit on providing this information. Once verification is received, it will be forwarded to you." Is this correct? I had the understanding there was a time limit on this. Is there anything I should be doing at this point? What is my next step?
They have not provided you with validation They have as much time as they want to produce proper validation for you BUT If they continue collection efforts before providing it you are entitled to $1000 for violation of the FDCPA
*****The FDCPA does not place a time limit on providing this information. Once verification is received, it will be forwarded to you." 1*Is this correct? 2*I had the understanding there was a time limit on this. ========================= *****You set the time limit by the date you sue them for violations. 1*Yes 2* They have 30 days to verify with the CRA after you dispute it with the cra. Thst's why your next step is to dispute it as not mine with the cra now. If they verify it but haven't sent you validation You have then on a 1000 violation Not marking it in diapute is another 1000. Next thing you send the collector is the 15 day. estoppel 30 days they got your VL.
