False Fraud Claim Illegal?

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by lbowman, Sep 7, 2001.

  1. lbowman

    lbowman Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    I've read several posts by people who say they repaired their credit by claiming the accounts were not opened by them and it was a fraudalent account. As a result, the account was deleted from their file.Is this illegal? If you opened an account by phone/online without signing a contract is it possible for them to verify it was you (credit card slips from merchants, check payments you sent in, etc)?

    Your advice is appreciated.

    ps. I'm not trying to get out of paying my debts, but I have a computer loan that I got for a friend, the friend promised to pay, she didn't, I'm screwed.

    -lb
     
  2. lbowman

    lbowman Well-Known Member

    help me out here guys. :)
     
  3. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Really, I think a little more detail would get you some answers. However, if you are the one who got the loan, then it is not fraud, and I wouldn't try to approach it that way. I would start trying to collect from this individual you assisted in getting the computer (at least that is what it sounds like you did). Honestly, that is a risk you took when you did that. People who can't get loans can't get them for a reason. hehe. We all know how that happens...

    Send your friend one of "those" letters, and ask nicely for the individual to begin repaying you for the loan. All the while, keep track of your correspondence, with the idea of proving that a debt actually exists. In the end, you can sue for the money, and, if you have some proof of the debt, get a judgment. Whether or not you actually get any money...... who knows? Maybe you could get the computer you bought. ;)
     
  4. lbowman

    lbowman Well-Known Member

    Hi breeze,

    Thanks for responding.

    While I agree that getting the money back from my friend is the solution (and what I'm currently doing, I'm in the process of serving her) my question is whether or not claiming fraud is illegal. There have been people who boasted about repairing their credit this way and I was just wondering..............
     
  5. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't venture a guess.
     
  6. eman

    eman Well-Known Member

    Well, from what the CRAs tell you it's illegal to put a false statement or false information on your credit report or a credit application but it doesn't say anything about requesting the removal of information as being illegal.

    As far as claiming fraud, that might be on a thin line of legality. Your best bet is to plead ignorance on the existence of disputed accounts.

    As far as the creditors finding a signature that says you owe them, that is probably harder to do than you think. Payment checks may be difficult to find especailly if the banks send them back to you or if you make online payments. Charge receipts may be difficult to obtain because they have to go to each company a charge was made with and then that company has to contact its store and that store has to dig up the receipt. I used to work with Best Buy and they used to keep all their receipts in a room upstairs in the warehouse. The receipts were packed into boxes and there seemed to be over a hundred full boxes of receipts. Now I don't now if a company is willing to do this just to please a creditor (I would hate to be the one who would have to dig through all those boxes). Even if a creditor finds a receipt with a signature, it still has to match yours (think about this the next time you scribble something down on a charge receipt ........ he he).

    In most case, a creditor will not even go this far if the debt is too old, too small, or has already been paid off.
     
  7. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    If you want to scare the hades out of your friend, tell your friend that if they don't do the right thing and start paying you will simply have to file an IRS form 1099-C forgiveness of debt. Tell the friend that you really don't want to do that, but you will have to do it so you can take the money off your taxes but it means that the IRS will come after the friend for the taxes because they will think it's income the friend made (true) and didn't report to the IRS. Could get them thrown in the pokey for tax evasion. And of course you would hate to see that happen to a good friend.

    Sure, most of what I just said to tell the friend is pure malarkey but if you really did file the 1099-C forgiveness of debt which is a real IRS form and the IRS would go after te friend, you can't take it off your taxes nor claim it as a loss. The IRS may or may not (probably not if the amout is kinda small) but the friend probably don't know anthing about it and may believe you actually are right and pay you rather than taka a chance with the IRS
     
  8. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Bill,

    That 3rd link in your signature is hilarious!!
    Cute ad.
     
  9. eman

    eman Well-Known Member

    Bill,

    Concerning the IRS 1099-C forgiveness of debt form, how can a creditor file this form on a charge off and report a loss which they all claim to do but then collects on the charge off on all or some of the money. Would the IRS consider this fraud by the creditors by claiming a loss and then collecting that loss.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  10. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    They are not claiming anything or getting anything. with the 1099. They are telling on you is all. They can still write the debt off as a loss.
     
  11. Quixote

    Quixote Well-Known Member

    Disclaimer: I am not an accountant or lawyer (but I play one on TV ;o) ).

    My understanding is that any monies recovered after write down would have to be claimed as ordinary income. Not complicated and not fraudulant. You just have to get those dollars back on the books somewhere.
     
  12. Quixote

    Quixote Well-Known Member

    Also, I LOVE Bill's idea, because it also has a reasonable chance of triggering an audit, a most unpleasant thing. Unusual or unaccounted for 1099's have a nasty habit of doing that. How Do I know? Glad you asked. Two audits in an 18 month period back in the early 90's is how I know. The trigger? I went from being a W-2 employee to being self employed with 1099's from 8-10 sources. Now, on a 1099, it SAYS that you don't need to file a copy along with your taxes, like you do with W-2's. BUT, unless you do, they have no way of knowing whether your stated income includes all of the 1099's that have already been sent to the IRS by their issuers. They, being the curious types, want to know these things. I learned my lesson. No IRS related Problems since.
     
  13. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Breeze:

    Thanks.
    I change that bottom one all the time. Every time I come up with a new one which is pretty often I change it. Usually about once a week.

    I'm getting ready to do audio stuff on it now. Music, voice & what have you. Then in another week of so I will also be doing some video stuff too. Just as soon as we get all the little kinks worked out. It will be all hooked up to our video and sound studios so we can do live webcasts, things like that.

    Takes time.
     
  14. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    I've never seen a creditor actually do it yet.

    I've filed a couple or so. One was for $180,000 on an MLM deal that went sour, the others were all peanuts stuff.

    Most creditors never heard of doing it.
     
  15. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Quixote:

    We are talking about two totally different things. You are talking about a straight 1099 and I am talking about a 1099-C. Two completely different animals
     
  16. Quixote

    Quixote Well-Known Member

    I understand that they are not exactly the same. However, I would submit that since the same IRS goons are looking at them, they are still going to be intrigued by any kind of irregularity, such as their inability to directly (and to the penny) account for it on the person's 1040. In other words, the recipient of that 1099-C is liable to just lump that number together with their other sources of income (or worse, not include it, as it will raise their taxes owed) and not include a copy of the 1099-C with their filing, because nowhere on the 1099-C form does it say Federal Copy, State Copy, etc. like it does on a W-2. In fact, if they read the supplemental instructions, it tells them that they don't need to submit a copy because whoever sent it to them will have also filed it with the IRS. Ultimately, all I am saying is that, in addition to raising their tax liability, by hitting them with that 1099-C, you introduce an element of confusion to their world, and make an audit more likely.
     
  17. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Well, all that you say is true, but then I wouldn't file a box of rocks with the IRS if I wasn't highly POed at somebody. It's a get even tactic.

    And I doubt that any of the big companies would throw good money after bad paying their help and the postage to file gadzillions of 1099-C forms which they will get nothing out of.
     
  18. Quixote

    Quixote Well-Known Member

    Jeez, Bill. I'm trying to agree with you here. ;)
     
  19. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Quixote:

    Are we having fun yet?

    Rotsa Ruck??

    Join the club???

    Preaching to the choir????

    (LOL)
     
  20. Kittw1

    Kittw1 Well-Known Member

    I hear ya, I let my "sister-in-FLAW" stay in an apartment that I rented because her worse than ours credit self could not even get an apartment. I felt like ok she has 4 kids, I guess I can help her. See what happens when you are nice. To make a long story short, her,her 4 kids, and her new bald-headed man moved because they wanted their own place. Meanwhile, I have to shell out $1705 to get this off of my credit. I talked to an attorney and he said that I can take them to small claims, obtain a judgment against them. It can be entered on their credit reports and additionally as he put it, "You'llhave a hammer against them for seven years." Meaning that I can garnish their wages and place a lien on their bank account (the stupid girl told me where they bank). I WANT MY MONEY and I want this crap off of my report.
     

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