I'll try to shorten a very long story. Four years ago I had great credit with no derogs and lots of positive tradelines. I had had good credit for 30 years. But that was before I developed a pathological gambling problem. In the last four years I have racked up $55,000 of credit card debt. I earn $30,000 a year. Without listing too many personal details, suffice it to say I hit bottom. I have taken steps to voluntarily disassociate myself from the "riverboats" in our state (can't gamble there without being arrested for trespass), am seeing a certified gambling couselor and have "come clean" with my husband. $25,000 of the debt was charged off two years ago. Now, my question: I went to see a bankruptcy lawyer yesterday. He seemed to think I could declare a chapter 7, but admitted that the only bankruptcy case he had ever had trouble getting discharged was another female compulsive gambler. He seemed to think that it could turn into a chapter 13. He thinks I should go ahead and file a chapter 7.. My non-charged off cards are individual accounts and I have struggled to keep them current with minimum payments but its not possible anymore. Would it be better to just go ahead and do a chapter 13 instead? Just let the cards charge-off? Do consumer credit counseling? What other options do I have? I really would appreciate any constructive help. Right now I really feel trapped, financially, emotionally, and morally.
Well, CCCS will still require that you make a minimum payment to them, from my experience the payment can be substantial if you owe on alot of credit cards. CCCS seems to do more harm then good, I would rather an account go to charge-off status then to ever consider using CCCS, thats only my opinion.. I'm sure others have had success with using them. You could try and contact the creditors and explain your situation. They might be able to curtail fees and intrest or allow you some time to stop paying and then start paying again. I've never gone this method. If they go to charge-off this most certianly will negatively effect your credit. If the debts are substantial they will most likely sue you for their money after some time has past. If you have any money at all I would suggest you contact them like I did and arrange a settlement for a lower amount as payment in full. This can be done and I am proof that you can do it while still keeping your credit record in the positive. They may not want to deal with settlement since the account is still current and it is not charged off yet, in essence they don't have any incentive to accept less from you at this point in the game. I hate to say this but I think it's going to get much worse before it gets better. Bankruptcy is an option if you have alot of debt to relieve yourself from. Be forewarned that this will haunt you for a very long time. I have also found out that most credit applications ask you if you've ever declared bankruptcy. Even if after 10 years it is off you still must answer "Yes" on the credit application or risk being arrested for supplying false information on a credit application, very serious offense. This is what I would most likely do if I were you and it is not good.... Contact creditors to see if you can arrange something or anything. Get it in writing!! If they will not budge or help I would just stop paying and let them charge off. If they don't sue you, in a couple of years you can dispute them and ask for validation as most here do. You can be very successful at getting them removed, but....if you aren't paying them and you somehow get them deleted, they will and probably can show back up on your reports. Your then back to square one. Again if they will not help you can let them go to charge off status and luckily they won't sue. Dispute in the future and when you have money contact them and offer settlement. Never pay them full price on a charged off account. By charging all those fees they have in essence committed highway robbery. Companies I have contacted will settle on just the principal amount owed, this mean forgiving any extra intrest, late fees and penalties that have been charged to the account. I hope this helps. Tac
Dear Suzy, First, thanx for your brutal honesty. Obvioulsy you're well on your way to recovery because you're no longer candy coating the situation. It's a disease and has completely screwed up your life, at least for now. Make sure you don't EVER forget that. I'm not being judgemental, I'm being honest. I too am in the recovery community and have been since 1984, tho not for gambling. Secondly, You'll have a strong tendency to let this get ya down. Don't give in to that. It's the lie of the disease. Don't forget about what's really important. Your life is more valuable than money any time. Don't you dare forget that either. Stick with your program and work hard at it and it will pay off in extraordinary dividends. It's the best gamble you can make because that really is a sure thing. Here's a tip: When you're really feeling down go find another gambler and help her (yes I said HER). Nothing works better for us than when we get out of our own BS and go help someone else. God Bless and keep comin back,
If you're gonna file BK do a CH7...there are a lot of posts here from people that did a CH13 and wished they did a 7 instead. A trick you can try is a 7 and then a 13 on whatever is left over...it's nicknamed a CH20.
tac14033 Be forewarned that this will haunt you for a very long time. I have also found out that most credit applications ask you if you've ever declared bankruptcy. Even if after 10 years it is off you still must answer "Yes" on the credit application or risk being arrested for supplying false information on a credit application, very serious offense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ???????????????? BAILIFF SAYS---->JUDGE!!!!! We just got this CREDIT CARD APPLICATION that has FALSE statements...WE MUST postpone the DRUG RUNNER 3rd STRIKE---TOP 10 F.B.I. WANTED CASE FOR THIS!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ KEY WORD IS--------->EVER... I have seen-------->"IS YOUR RECORD CLEAR OF BK" If the BK dropped OFF 15 years ago...IT IS CLEAR...RIGHT??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAS ANYBODY EVER SEEN IN THE PAPER ABOUT SOMEBODY GOING TO COURT BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T "EVER" GO BK...BUT THEY DID 15 YEARS BEFORE APPLYING FOR THE CREDIT CARD??? I would just think the CREDIT CARD COMPANY would send a letter to the CARDHOLDER and say------>"WE FOUND OUT YOU FILED BK 15 YEARS AGO, SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET YOU USE THE CARD, AND WE EXPECT TO BE PAID-IN-FULL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE"
HAS ANYBODY EVER BEEN ARRESTED FOR PUTTING INCORRECT ANSWERS ON ANY CREDIT CARD APPLICATION??? NOT talking about "REAL" credit card FRAUD!!!
When I see that question, I simply ignore it. I do not answer. If they ask me I will be honest, but I believe that all that they should know about is on my credit bureau. By ignoring the question, I did not lie. I simply chose not to answer. On a car dealership app, they asked have you ever had a car repo'd. I didn't answer. When the loan officer asked me the question in person, I pointed at the bureau and asked him, "Does it look like it?" I let him come to his own conclusion. My repo was 1984 almost 20 years ago. Not anyone's business anymore! My chapter 7 drops off next Aug. I have no intention of resurrecting it's existence.
Suzy, What is the SOL for cc debt in your state? www.creditinfocenter.com has a table. If you are lucky enough to be in a state with a 3 year SOL you're closer to being home on those 2 chargeoffs than you think. You were first late about 180 days prior to chargeoff. If this is the case, I would be inclined to try and wait it out if possible. Also, keep an eye on the fate of the new bk bill. It looks like Congress has no intention of handling it until the elections are over. Should they slip back into session after Nov. 5th and pass the bill I'd suggest bk would be in your best interest. Also, if you are not comfortable with this lawyer, get the advice of another 1 or 2.
Smom is right. Loan application fraud has more to do with applying *pertinent* information that is not true. Like faking your social/assuming anothers identity or name. Stuff like that. Not telling them, or even lying about a ch13 from 10 years ago would not be problematic. imo.
Isn't there an old law that says money borrowed for gambling does not have to be repaid? Obviously if your debt includes car loans, dept. store cards you will still owe those. I would think if you took cash advances out of your credit card at the casino (easily done) you could negotiate with the credit card company for lower payments.
Actually, as difficult as it is for me to admit, almost all of the debt is gambling related. Most of the cash advances were taken out at ATM's outside of the casino (it was cheaper to take them out that way, casinos charge a pretty hefty fee for processing the advances). The only store card with a balance is Penny's and that's for under $100. I will pay that this month. 90% of the rest of the charges have been cash advances or balance transfers.
As unbelievable as it might be and the chances are less then 0%, it is still none the less against the law to lie on a credit application. This is Federal law as it is against state law in my state of PA as well. I applied for a loan last month and the loan officer asked when she was filling out the credit application. Have you ever filed bankruptcy? This is a no brainer, either you did or you didn't?? Stating you didn't and in the past did would be supplying false information on a credit application if they were to find out and in the very least want to prosecute. What if you got the loan and used the money. They found out and wanted you to pay it back in full in lieu of them not prosecuting you. You can't now because you don't have the money, you used it. They now contact the police and point out to them this little and very stupid law that you thought was unimportant, and the chances they gave you to pay them back without the need to be arrested. You now don't want to deal with it because you can't pay. This is considered fraud as well in my state. I am not trying to make a real big issue out of this or state that telling them or not telling them is really important. The likelyhood of you being arrested for lying on a credit application is slim. But I would'nt want to be approved for a loan after lying and then have to deal with the consequences of what "could" happen. A BK can and will stick around for quite sometime. Tac
Congrats on your road to recovery because you're brave to do it. As for Chapter 7, when did they start asking for a detailed account as to why you are filing (what led to the bankruptcy). How can someone that lives well beyond their means have an easier time than someone that is filing do to a gambling problem? Check out what someone previously posted about an old law about not having to repay gambling debts. It might be worth it. I realize that I didn't give you any "constructive" advise, but I just wanted you to know that people do care and wish you the best. Good Luck Sirrowan
Gambling debts are enforceable. The laws you refer to are various state laws that were overturned by a U.S. Supreme Court decision in the late 1980's.
You are so brave to share your life experience with the board. I know it has been a hard road for you but you are making your comeback. Hang in there. we are pulling for you. I know from personal experience, those really hard time can be rough. Sometimes they feel like they will break you in two but if you stay tough, you'll make it through.
I've seen a lot of credit apps that don't ask if you ever filed a BK. If it bothers you to say no then use banks that don't ask. I would find it hard to beleive that a bank would take the time to prosecute you for saying no to BK. It's not a violent crime and you can easily say you didn't read the question correctly. The only time I've heard of a bank looking at things like this is when you have a major default. Then they might take the time to check and see if you lied on the app. In other words. if the account is current there is no reason for the bank to look for fraud. This is my opinion, not a legal opinion.
Found this on Attorney website, maybe you can find out more by contacting them. http://www.waidlawfirm.com/newsletter.asp Credit Cards Easier to Discharge - No 'Fraud' Despite Inability to Pay A women who took $11,600 in cash advances on her credit cards in order to finance her gambling problem can discharge the debt in bankruptcy, says the Sixth Circuit. This wasn't "fraud" that would be nondischargeable under 11 U.S.C. Sect. 523 (a)(2)(A), because she believed she could win back the money and pay off the debt. The fact that she lacked the ability to repay the debt doesn't mean that she didn't intend to repay it; the 9th Circuit Court has held the same way. The best advice for creditors is to: Focus on purchases, especially luxury items, made just before the debtor filed for bankruptcy; Determine exactly how much debt exists, because a court will consider this as party of the "totality of the circumstances;" and Review the debtor's credit application for inaccuracies in listed assets or income that suggest fraud. U.S. Court of Appeals, 7th Circuit. In re: Rember, No. 96-2293. April 9, 1998. 98 LWUSA 337.
As a former bk paralegal I have been to hundreds of 341a meetings of the creditors and not once did I hear the trustee question what the debts were for...the problems occur when a creditor appears and objects to being included in the bk becuase the debt was either fraudelently obtained or legally not includeable in bk. As a former bk paralegal my advice would be to go ahead and file a 7...the worst that could happen is that the trustee would not approve of the 7 and move to convert it to a 13. This happens on occasion but certainly not in the majority of cases. What will be important to the trustee will be your schedules especially the income and expense schedules. If you are married he will take into account your spouse's income and contributions to the family expenses. I agree with the above poster re:atty...if you do not feel comfortable with his advice call the local bar association in your county and get the name of another bk atty. The initial consultation is usually free. Having confidenced and a rapport with your atty in a matter as intimate as a bk is very important. The cost of a chapter 7 bk is $200 for a filing fee. This is broken down as $155 filing fee + $30 admin fee + $15 trustee fee. An atty can charge between 600-750 depending on your locale for a simple 7. I would advise against a pro se filing as if you run into problems are make a mistake on your filing papers you're screwed literally...don't expect the bk trustee or the bk judge to give you any leeway because you're a pro se filer. This is my educated opinion. I hope it helps. Good luck on your recovery. clc
