Phone contact from IC Systems

"I'm calling regarding your account with (creditor) and would like to advise you that this is an attempt to collect a debt, and any information gathered will be used for that purpose."

They included the notification that they were attempting to collect a debt and that any information would be used for that purpose. What they so carefully and deliberately neglected, and presumably why you wanted the address, was that you had the right to dispute the debt. Since they did not notify you of that, they owe you a letter within 5 days that includes that right to dispute notification.

 

Their 5 day clock to send you an initial written notification, including your right to dispute, started today.

If you DV timely (within 30 days of receiving their letter, they cannot legally continue collection, including reporting on your CR, or verifying to a CRA if you dispute an existing TL, until they send you validation obtained from the OC.

If you fail to receive any letter within, say, 10 days, DV them anyway. Reference their call, on this date, include that the caller refused to provide their address, and refused to provide any information about the debt, and that you have not received any letters from them, and notify them that you dispute the debt. Send it Certified, RRR.

If you have no other address, I guess you would send it to their corporate offices. You could provide whatever information on the account that they provided, but if they can't find the account why should they be able to claim it was some bona fide error when they were deliberately trying to block you from disputing.

Your DV letter thus also memorializes their early attempts to get around their legal responsibilities, should they continue collection and you have to take action.

 

Some would argue that the DV, and the resulting halt on collection, should travel with the debt assignment. Whether or not that is the case, if you did receive another collection contact from a new CA, you would then DV them also, including that this debt had already been disputed, and no validation had been sent.

If any of them continue collection without providing validation, you want it to appear as blatant as possible, which it would be.

 

In this age of telephone identity theft scams and internet phishing, why would anyone give any information to an unknown caller over the phone?

 

What state do you live in? I have heard that in Texas, they have to respond to a DV, and within 30 days, whether they stop collection and pass off the debt, or not.

 

Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

It might, if they were headquartered there, incorporated there, or calling from there. Should that happen, you could always call the TX AG and ask.

The main point is that it is also worth looking at state consumer protection law, which often parallels federal law, but sometimes in broader form, or with higher penalties. Also, some state AGs are more ambitious about serving their citizens. Unlike FTC, which is often not interested until complaints have built up, state AGs have to get elected.

 

Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

Based on their BBB report, they appear to be based in MN, but with operations in a number of other states.

 

Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

This shows up:

BBB shows locations in MN and ND, BBB member, along with a "satisfactory" rating.

http://www.collectionindustry.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=339

http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=124001&view=printer

Do a search on ripoffreport.com, and you will find other reports of their tactics.

 

Re: Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

It looks like they are trying hard to set themselves up for a fall.

 

Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

"I interpret this as five calendar days, as it doesn't say five BUSINESS days? And I would assume that this just has to be postmarked five days from today, and not necessarily in my hands?"

So if you give them 10 days from the phone call, if they were going to send you a letter, you would have gotten it. Send your DV, Certified, and you can show it was "timely",(within 30 days of their call, therefore within 30 days of any letter they sent whether or not you got it.

It does them no good to argue against your records of when they called. They claim it was earlier, then they violated the 5 day notification rule. They claim it was later, then how could you have sent your letter in response? More likely, they ignore the details in your letter, and either process your DV, or ignore it.



"What if they've already reported it prior to the DV? Do they then have to remove it?"

If so, you dispute with the CRA to which they reported. If they "verify" to the CRA, that is "continued collection" which is illegal under FDCPA until they have sent you validation, provided you requested validation within 30 days of their letter notifying you of your right to dispute. Once they got your dispute letter, they no longer had any right to assume the debt valid, or continue collections, without verifying with the OC.



"I'm assuming that I shouldn't volunteer any info such as SSN?"

Definitely not. You already have indications they are skirting the edge of the law. Indeed, why would they have a reason to ask, for a debt they have already claimed they don't have the SSN for?


Still, better protection than just your letters, is a complaint to your state AG, since this dunning letter appears deceptive and illegal on its face.

Based on what you learned in your phone call, they are also probably sending this out to a bunch of people with your last name, and they have no clue which, if any, of them are teh alleged debtor. That makes the missing dispute notification more blatant, and moves it from an individual consumer dispute, to something interesting to public officials.

CYA.

 

Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

Have either of you had an account with "creditor"?

 

Re: Re: Re: Phone contact from IC Systems

You are right. I was crossing a couple threads. Looks like you can sort it out.