Thread: PP for soft inquiries

i apologize in advance if this seems "newbie-ish".

does a company need PP for a soft inquiry? I know CN'ers have gone round and round on this issue, but has it ever been determined? I recently obtained a current credit report and found soft inquiries that weren't listed before:

Home Loan 8/26/03
Orchard Bank 01/08/04, 12/21/03
National Magazine Exchange 1/29/04
Premeir Bankcard 3/2/04
Cross Country Bank 03/16/04
Upland Mortgage 03/19/04
Heights State Bank 6/9/04

NONE of these companies I applied with. Granted they are soft inquiries, but I am very uncomfortable with them obtaining my report without permission.

advice?

Originally posted by jenz
does a company need PP for a soft inquiry? I know CN'ers have gone round and round on this issue, but has it ever been determined

I'm one of those that has been going round and round on this recently. The law says they have to have permission to pull, not "must have pp to pull hard inquiry".

And if it's not a prm (is that right?) to offer you credit - they have NO business in your affairs.

Said and done, that's what I'm pursuing now.

J:

A PP is needed for any inquiry.

Even a PRM requires a PP in theory (to make a firm offer of credit, insurance, etc) under Section 604. :)

Is the CRA the one which doesn't begin with E? :)

thanks for the replies...this is experian (i should check the others). it doesn't say if it is a PRM or not.

so how do i find out if it is PRM and if they aren't what is my next step - a letter?

Chances are that these are PRMs.

Experian co-mingles the soft and PRM inquiries, so you can't tell which is which...

I was actually debating doing a detailed post on Pulls & PRMs, but didn't know if there would be a demand for it.

Especially since I ended up having to go through Section 604 with a fine tooth comb to try to make heads or tails of its ins and outs when I was working on my fun and games (with one of the companies which you listed... :))

Did you ever go through the opt-out process?

Here is a thread that shows my going through to figure out if one little piece of information could be given on a PRM... :)

http://consumers.creditnet.com/strai...CRA+Disclosure

I was probably going way overboard, but its the principle of the matter. Even after I told the company that they shouldn't have even been able to pull a PRM, they call the CRA and ask them more questions about my credit file, and claim that they didn't need a PP to do it. So I was going to find as many technicalities as I could, to prove (or at least hopefully get them to see that I may be able to prove) that they violated. ;)

As you said, its a matter of our privacy... :)

The reason I thought that it may have been the other CRA... :)

When I sent my 'reminder' of my wishes to be perm-optted-out to that CRA, and mentioned that I had become aware that supposedly an as of yet unidentified CRA had provided my information against my wishes, then miraculously, when they sent the updated 'dispute' report, three PRMs from 3+ months earlier appeared (and more recent PRMs were appearing prior to that report). :)

i did not opt out, but if a company is fishing for customers that meet certain criteria, it shouldn't even show as a soft inquiry because they aren't obtaining enough information (typically they go to the CRA's and say i want names/addresses of everyong who meets this criteria).

why does it list as an inquiry of any sort if they weren't given the opportunity to view the entire report?

experians online service says the inquiries "only viewed by you":

[i]According to the Fair Credit Reporting Act, credit grantors listed in this section had a permissible purpose to review your information, although the requests listed in this section do not display to them. When a request for your information is made, it will display on your credit report for two years.

We report these requests only to you as a record of those who reviewed your information,
and we do not include any of these requests on credit reports to others.[i]

based on that these inquiries that are listed in this section had to have had PP and were not PRM?????

Originally posted by jam237
I was actually debating doing a detailed post on Pulls & PRMs, but didn't know if there would be a demand for it.

If you're willing Jam, I'd love to see this all addressed. I'm still trying to figure out some of the terminology, and whether or not I have any violations.
Your info would be a GREAT start.

Jenz,

Actually, if you look closely at the definitions in the FCRA. Even a PRM is a CONSUMER REPORT, governed by Section 604.

(d) Consumer report.

(1) In general. The term "consumer report" means any written, oral, or other communication of any information by a consumer reporting agency bearing on a consumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, credit capacity, character, general reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living which is used or expected to be used or collected in whole or in part for the purpose of serving as a factor in establishing the consumer's eligibility for
(A) credit or insurance to be used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes;
(B) employment purposes; or
(C) any other purpose authorized under section 604 [§ 1681b].

(g) The term "file," when used in connection with information on any consumer, means all of the information on that consumer recorded and retained by a consumer reporting agency regardless of how the information is stored.

When the company provides criteria which they use for underwriting to request names and addresses, they are still receiving information about the consumer which bears on the consumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, credit capacity, character, general reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living which determines their eligibility for credit or insurance.

This is what got TU in hot water for their target marketing practices.

Why they need to be disclosed...

(c) Furnishing reports in connection with credit or insurance transactions that are not initiated by the consumer.

(1) In general. A consumer reporting agency may furnish a consumer report relating to any consumer pursuant to subparagraph (A) or (C) of subsection (a)(3) in connection with any credit or insurance transaction that is not initiated by the consumer only if
(A) the consumer authorizes the agency to provide such report to such person; or
(B) (i) the transaction consists of a firm offer of credit or insurance;
(ii) the consumer reporting agency has complied with subsection (e); and
(iii) there is not in effect an election by the consumer, made in accordance with subsection (e), to have the consumer's name and address excluded from lists of names provided by the agency pursuant to this paragraph.
(2) Limits on information received under paragraph (1)(B). A person may receive pursuant to paragraph (1)(B) only
(A) the name and address of a consumer;
(B) an identifier that is not unique to the consumer and that is used by the person solely for the purpose of verifying the identity of the consumer; and
(C) other information pertaining to a consumer that does not identify the relationship or experience of the consumer with respect to a particular creditor or other entity.
(3) Information regarding inquiries. Except as provided in section 609(a)(5) [§ 1681g], a consumer reporting agency shall not furnish to any person a record of inquiries in connection with a credit or insurance transaction that is not initiated by a consumer.

§ 609. Disclosures to consumers [15 U.S.C. § 1681g]

(a) Information on file; sources; report recipients. Every consumer reporting agency shall, upon request, and subject to 610(a)(1) [§ 1681h], clearly and accurately disclose to the consumer:

(5) A record of all inquiries received by the agency during the 1-year period preceding the request that identified the consumer in connection with a credit or insurance transaction that was not initiated by the consumer.

A PRM is still an inquiry, it still needs a PP (albeit the PP is a lot more lax), and it still needs to be disclosed to the consumer.