Hi, I am new to these forums and I have read some of the stickies and since I am a relative newbie, some of the info here is too much to digest in one go. So I will try to explain my situation here and see if I can get a bit of guidance. So here goes... I have a total debt of 16000$ in 7 credit cards that were all issued between 2003 and 2004. I was a student then and I screwed up big time and maxed them out(or close enough) and it got to a point where I could not make the monthly payments. Let's say that the last payments to all these accounts were by Jan 2005(as seen in my credit report). Since then 5 of them shows up as charged off as bad debt and 2 has gone to CA. All these people have my address at the time and since Jan 2005 I have moved out of that place and never returned with no forwarding address. I have never called any of them or given a new phone number or paid any money to them since. I have virtually become a non-entity since and do not own anything in my name... no phone, no lease and no utilities. The phone I use now is in my friend's name and I live with my friends in their apartment with no lease and use a friend's car. But today, one of the CAs called my friend's personal cell and asked her for my number and unwittingly she gave them the cell phone number I am using now. So they called me and I answered the phone and they told me about this card with a max balance of 814$ at the time and with interest it has now gone up to 1450$ and asked me to pay them. Since it was out of the blue, I talked to the CA and said I cannot pay the full amount. Since he mentioned attorney and filing a law suit in every other sentence, I got scared and tried to negotiate and they agreed to pay a one time payment of 500$ and they said they will send a "settlement in full" letter after they cash the check. They said that they have sent many letters to my old address but I have never received even 1 letter from them... and even though they got the cell phone number I am using now, they don't have my current address. I have no idea how they got her cell phone no and when I asked them how they got my no, they would not tell me. Is that even legal ? Should I pay them by Monday like I promised and take their word about them sending me this letter of "settlement in full" or should I call back on monday and ask them to send me more info to my current address(sounds like a dumb idea even to me). Or is there a different course of action ? The reason I am getting second thoughts is that they gave me a Post box no to send the check. How can I trust that ? I have never received a single letter from them ... b'cos I haven't been at my old address for over 2 years. All CRAs show my old address and phone no(no longer exists) as my latest info. Also since I made a promise to pay 500$ to settle this by monday over the phone, I am worried if I am making a commitment here. Do CAs record the phone conversation and is it a binding agreement? I live in Colorado and through posts here found that the SOL in Colorado for C Card accounts is 3 years which would mean that based on my last payment, the SOL should end in Feb 2008. Is this right and if so what does SOL ending in Feb 2008 really mean in my case? Even though I come across as a complete a******* trying to spend the CC money and then screw them, that is not my intention at all. I am willing to pay or settle these accounts one by one in 2 years time but I just started saving up for this purpose and don't want to be snowballed. Any advice would be helpful Thanks /JP
Call the CA, ask for their address and send them a validation letter asking them to prove they have the right to collect the debt. Something as simple as: Please allow this to serve as notice that I am disputing your debt collection-related allegations, denying the same and demand strict proof and verification thereof. This dispute, denial, and demand are made in accordance with federal and state law. Please govern yourself accordingly. Cordially, Send it certified mail return receipt.
Do you send money to anyone who asks over the phone? If so, what's your phone number so I can call you and use lots of big legal words to intimidate you into sending me money. To me, regardless of how guilty I might feel about something, I don't think you should send any money to someone you don't know or have an established business relationship. To that end, regardless of what they may or may not have sent you in the past, you're in the here and now and if they want some money, they should send you sufficient proof that that you have some obligation to pay them. I won't send any money to anyone over the phone without getting something in writing FIRST. If they have agreed to a reduced settlement, then THEY should send you the settlement first to which you can sign and return with the check. What I'd bet they would do is treat that $500 payment as an attempt to bring the debt current and reset the statute of limitations clock so then they have an easier chance to sue/harrass you for the balance (the balance that will keep on increasing, BTW). DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT IS NOT IN WRITING!!!!! (do I need to say that any louder?!) So. I would NOT send them any money and I WOULD send them the letter described by Enigma. Also get ready for the rest of them. Once they see that you paid someone off (as noted on your credit report), then they'll be after you like sharks who smell blood.
I agree with the above, always have everything in writing. And request debt validation by all means as described above. And state telephone calls are never acceptable only written correspondance. It sounds as if you are afraid if your current address gets out to one CA then all will come calling? You are very well right. That could happen. That could happen whether you pay this CA or not. Maybye it's time to educate yourself about debt validation & credit repair & go ahead and face it, you sound like you are ready to deal with this & I applaud you for that. Imagine how you will feel once you have this out on the table, you can start credit repair, gain new credit and not be afraid to have your name on something. Is Jan 2005 the date the accts first went deliquent? Is so & if Col SOL is 3 years then it would be Feb 2008. When a acct goes out of SOL it means you cannot be sued over that debt, they can still try to collect but they can't sue on it. Let me rephrase they can try to sue but if you answer the suit & the court sees it is out of SOL no judgment can be entered. I am no legal person so I hope that sounds correct. I feel for you because I know what it's like to be looking over your shoulder, look at it this way, the worst they can do is try to sue for a judgment. If you get served, get educated & file an answer. If all the accts will go out of SOL in Feb though that can well be in your favor. But the accts will stay on your credit report for 7 years, which will prob fall around 2/2012. So if you want to move on you gotta work on these puppies. You need to learn, young one, read till your eyes fall out & then read some more. Ask questions, they won't bite you, I ask all the time & they put up with me. Beleive me, a CA's worst nightmare is an informed consumer. As Biz would say "Prepare for battle!" I wish you much luck & this board is wonderful and alot of the peeps here are VERY knowledagable (not me I'm just your average member) and can help you along the way. And hang in there, I know how you feel, where there is a will there is a way, you just have to find it. Tegleg
Thanks for all the replies. I am reading up like crazy on this stuff now. So far I have figured out that for state of Colorado the SOL is 3 years from the last non-payment or delinquency. I pulled all my credit reports and the last payments on all cards is Feb 2005 which translates to Feb 2008 being the end of SOL even though all these accounts were charged off much later(3-6 months after the last payment). Is this right? Another thing is all the 3 CRs have my old address from 3 years back as my current address. So no one has my current address( My name is not on the current lease by the way). So I assume it is unwise to give anyone my current address. If I can hold off for another 2 months then the SOL will run out and they cannot get a result out of any legal action. So, is it OK if I give a "care of" address to reply to me, for any correspondence that I send to the CA ? Another important thing that I noticed is that the CA that contacted me is not listed on any of the 3 CRs and the original account(origianl creditor) does not show up either. So should I mention that in my validation request that I am planning to send ? I am planning to send the validation request some time this week after I can figure out answers to these questions. Thanks once again for the replies and they have helped me a lot. /JP
Update... I didn't send the check and the CA called me yesterday. When I asked him for his address to send a validation letter, he got really pissy with me and mentioned his attorney a few times. When I told him that I have never received any written communication from him, he said, that they have been sending it out for the last 3 months. I told them that it might be to an address that I lived in 3 years back. He replied that he knows that and he also read back my current address to me. So even after knowing my current address, they have been purposely sending my letters to the old address.I told him that I am recording the call and that I have him on record saying that he has my new address but didn't send any letters to this address. He was really pissed and told me that I have no right to record phone calls without his consent(I'm in Colorado and it's fine here) He also threatened to sue and that I'll be hearing from his lawyer and hung up. So I have a few questions... 1) I got the first call from them 5 days back and I sent the validation letter yesterday. So am I safe to assume that I responded with in 30 days of the first contact since I never got any letters from them. I still haven't got any letters. 2) The original debt was 800$ which the CA says is about 1450$ now. How realistic is that they will sue especially since the SOL will run out in 2 months time? 3) I have phone records showing the first call 5 days back and the recorded conversation as evidence. Could any of these be admissible in court to show that I was not given proper notice to respond before filing a case against me? This forum has been incredible for me and without the help and resources from here, I would be peeing my pants here . So thanks everyone again.
Gib's comment on the SoL points to the fact that you have 51 days to tough it out before you get the absolute right to use SoL as an affirmative defense. You need to be very sure that SoL is 3 years for your situation. With the CA that has contacted you, you may not be able to let him sleep, but certainly for the others it is great advice. As for the CA that has contacted you (or others that might over the next few weeks): Now that they have contacted you, they firmly have placed themselves under the restrictions of the FDCPA. You need to use those restrictions to assist you in getting through the 51 days without being served for a law suit. The DV that you sent is part of the protection that serves your purpose. Good move. Note that they are required by law to provide some very specific things in writing to you within 5 days (functionally 10 when mailed) of their initial contact. If they gave you your current address in their call, then they have no excuse for failure to comply and no relief from sanction. The FDCPA also tells them what they cannot do. Those can help you, too. One question, though. Is the CA located in your state? If he is not, then there is a very good chance that it may take longer than 51 days to transfer the account to a local attorney and for him to file. Even so, few collections attorneys are set up to move so quickly. I just would make sure that no mention of SoL comes up in your conversations that might tip them to time being of the essence. The trick would be to keep them talking as long as possible -- without resolution. Make sure you keep a very accurate log of what happens, with detail memorializations of any conversation. Note any attempts to threaten or pressure you. Build yourself a file folder full of FDCPA violations on the part of the CA to use as leverage in your negotiations. And remember, you only need to prolong the negotiations to, at most, 51 days to achieve your goal. It's like a football play. You need to block only until the runner is past being overtaken.
If you have him on record as threatening to sue, then they'd better sue you or they have commited another FDCPA violation. You might want to read up on the FDCPA and how to sue the CA for their violations. There could be a payday in this for you.
I just checked my TUnion CR and these guys made an inquiry, yesterday after our phone conversation. I haven't mentioned the SOL anywhere and the CA is in Colorado - same state as I am. This collection account or the Original creditor does not show up on any of the 3 CRs which is weird. Most people here seem to have negative stuff show up on CRs first and then contact them or get contacted by the CA. Are they being too lazy to even report it to the CRs ? Can they even file without ever sending me a letter to my current address or without anything show up on my CRs. Is that legal?
Some more information, please, specifically about the one the CA who called you is collecting. (Important for the others, too, but not such an immediate issue.) Who is the CA collecting for, the OC or a JDB? These all should be in charge-off so the chances of it being a JDB are very high. It is interesting to note that the COs aren't on your credit report. The CA has a permissible purpose to pull your CR as part of the collection activity. There is no requirement that they report. Some don't, a lot do. As for filing suit without telling you? They can. Your being served qualifies as telling you.
Thanks for the reply. The OC as per the CA was ACB college classic citi bank card. This don't show up in any of the new CRs. An old CR from Feb 2007, again shows no entry from the OC but a collection entry from UNI FUND CCR PART NERS from Ohio. This entry also does not show up on any of the latest CRs. The CA that contacted me is T S F Financial located here in Colorado and they don't show up on any CRs. EDIT : just found out what JDB is. I think this is just a JDB. Also could anyone offer an opinion on the possibility of whether they will sue for the 800$ original Credit which the CA say is about 1450$ now.Is that a big enough amount for them to sue? Also on the Feb 2007 CR, the balance shown next to the Ohio CA is lesser(~ 1200$) and now they say it's 1450$. Can an account bought by a CA add interest to your original account?
You're on the margins for actual suit. It's their calculus as to whether they can get a default judgment. Not sure if this qualifies for Small Claims in CO, but it would be an element in their thinking. SC costs less to file and prosecute in than higher courts. Can they add interest? Yes if permitted by the original contract. But there is something of which you should be aware. JDBs are notorious in their inability to prove their cases. The likelihood that they can validate is not overwhelming, and, should they sue, they might have trouble getting sufficient evidence to prevail if you challenge them. It would be up to you to make them work for it, but you may well succeed in defending the suit. But remember. You are looking at a 51-day window for them to act before they hand you the absolute affirmative defense of SoL. Your objective would be able to get through the 51 days without compromising all of your other options. Keep them talking...but not acting. As for accounts being sold? They can be sold on and on and on. The more times it changes hands, the less likely the ability to validate, including accounting for and justifying all of the additions in fees and interest from the previous holders-in-due-course.
Thanks again... Just one more question for now. It's a repeat of a question that I asked before... 1) I got the first call from the CA 5 days back and I sent the validation letter yesterday. I never got any letters from them at my current address and since the mail at my old address(3 years old) never reaches me. So I have received zero letters from them other than the 2 phone calls in the last 5 days. So my question is : Am I safe to assume that I responded with in 30 days of the first contact and they will have to cease collection activities till they respond to my validation letter?
Assume nothing. But that would be your claim. Inasmuch as the FDCPA starts the 30-day window from the date you receive their initial correspondence, the clock technically hasn't started to run. The 5-day clock for them to provide you information required by the FDCPA has. The DV should suffice for the FDCPA purposes if you can prove that it was sent and received. Your DV was sent CMRRR, wasn't it? If it wasn't, then I'd send another copy via CMRRR fairly soon. Whether they cease collection activities or not is something out of your control. They can elect to violate the legal restrictions. If they do, they hand you a stick to use against them both in future negotiations and/or in court. You just have to have good records to press your FDCPA claims. Once again, keep the 51-day window for SoL in mind. The goal is to preclude suit until the clock runs out.
