I received my first validation from one the my CA's yesterday. It came in the totally unacceptable form of a bunch of computer printouts. No signatures, just spreadsheets. Could someone please link me to the requirements for validation? I am pretty sure this attempt failed to meet the minimum standards. How do I assert my right to view original signed contracts? Is there a canned letter I can send them? Sort of like "nice try but you lose and I am getting mad!" in attitude? Thanks for your help, low
FTC Wollman Opinion http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm How long did the CA to take to validate? If it was fairly quick, and/or there is no obvious sign that the printouts came from the OC itself, but from the CAs computer, it is obvious that it doesn't pass the Wollman Opinions litmus test. You will want to check Butch's What Is Validation thread. Case law doesn't really show what *IS* validation, but more, what isn't validation. Basically the way the case law works is when a consumer proves that what they received isn't validation in court, it carves the line a little more definitively, but the law itself doesn't expressly say what validation is...
****NEW MEMBER MUST READS***** 12-25-3 What is Validation http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra....php?s=&threadid=42188&highlight= validation
*****NEW MEMBER MUST READS*****2-25-2004 What is Validation http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra....php?s=&threadid=42188&highlight= validation *** Victims of Credit Reporting *** http://members.aol.com/victcrdrpt/Score.html Rule of 72 http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...=&threadid=39313&highlight=rule+AND+of+AND+72 Must SEE--------------------------- http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=350770#post350770 http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...rd/showthread.php?s=&postid=352826#post352826 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" FixYourOwnCredit! http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...848&highlight=fix+AND+your+AND+own+AND+credit """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" '''''''''' `````````` '''''''''' Sample letters http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/index.php?s=WhyChats statute of limitations http://community-2.webtv.net/Y-chat...ity-2.webtv.net/Y-chat/WhyChatsCredit/statute of limitations http://www.edebtnetwork.com/content/collection_laws.asp""""```--~~~~~~~~~--```'""''' THE END ** *** ** LB 59""""```--~~~~~~~~~--```'""'''
The CA gave me 2 copied pages of computer printouts that bear a stamp from the OC. They also provided a copy of an invoice showing the disputed amount in my name. The sheets provided do pass the Wollman Test. They are from the OC. They got these to me in 10 days. Pretty darn quick when most CA's never even respond.... LB59 - thx for the linx. I have read them all previously except the bottom three which are broken! low
The FDCPA states: § 808. Unfair practices [15 USC 1692f] A debt collector may not use unfair or unconscionable means to collect or attempt to collect any debt ... the following conduct is a violation of this section: (1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law. PERIOD!!! Is Section 808 actionable? They are trying to charge me interest. I live in Oregon and am not familiar with the state laws regarding this. Where can I go to find the applicable statutes? thx, low
Unlike the FCRA, everything in the FDCPA is actionable. Actually adding interest is one of the most frequent things which is done. http://www.carreonandassociates.com/statute.htm#Oregon Did they provide a written agreement, and anything bearring your signature? What did you ask for in your validation? If they didn't provide anything which has your signature to prove the account, that would be the next mode of attack, they still have not proven that the debt is yours, and if the statements were not from day 1, they have not proven the complete amount of the debt.
They have no signature. I never signed a contract for this service. They provided 2 pages of computer printouts and a copy of an invoice. The "ledger card" page does not show the start of services, only the year prior to disconnect. None of the doc's they supplied pass the high standards as (not) defined in spears v. brennan. I sent a sample validation letter as found in the sample letters section. I sent the first one with only slight modification. In fact I sent it CRRR exactly like this Dear Sir/Madame: Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please complete and return the attached disclosure request form. Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you. You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States Mail System might constitute mail fraud under federal and state law. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me. Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees. So I never sent out a cease and desist as this CA never attempted to collect other than sending a couple of statements last year. I was thinking that the cease and desist might be an important legal step in case they "reactivate" their collection activities. Should I send one out to pre-empt this potentiality or just send one out if they begin new collection activities? I promise not to talk on the phone with them low
You will want to emphasize the sentence in the previous validation letter... "competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you." They have not provided competent evidence that this is your account. On the first statement provided, was there a balance of 0. If there was any previous balance, they need to provide the statements to account for that previous balance. This is akin to Spears v. Brennan -- I provided the contract, I validated at the same time I served him; without the complete accounting and statements the contract did not provide validation. And without the contract, the complete statments do not provide evidence that the account is yours.
thx jam, Thats what I was thinking! lb59, thx for addressing my question. judging from the demeanor of your post you seem to suuport the same conclusion i am coming to. low
I would first request (strongly) the account numbers and Names of the original creditor, from the CA. they must to provide these. So send by registered, signature required mail. That will allow you see if they are included in the BK. Just curious, which CA's are you dealing with? If you did this already in your original correspondence, then I would make a copy of the lame letter they sent back and include copeis of the reciepts, send to the CBs with a request to have them removed as they did not answer correctly. I would want the original accounts though for a permanent record you need to keep for your seven yr drop off. PS. I am not a professional in this field, but I do deal with credit a good bit in my profession.
One last shout out for advice b4 I make my letter!!! I am going to make it limited C&D, and reassert my right to see original contracts. thx for the advice, eric
Here is my letter! What do you think? Did I forget anything important? Thanks for all your input!!! RE: Account #XXXXXXX Dear XXXXXXXXX: Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a second request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you. The information you sent in your letter dated February 19th in response to my initial validation request does not properly validate this matter. Furthermore, I must ask that you remove the derogatory listings from my Transunion and Equifax credit reports unless you can provide proper validation. It is a breach of my rights to report incomplete and inaccurate information to Credit Bureaus. This will serve as your legal notice under federal law, "The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act," to cease all communication with me, except by mail, in reference to the above account. If you fail to heed this notice, I will file a formal complaint against you with the Federal Trade Commission responsible for enforcement, the state Attorney Generalâ??s Office, as well as the American Collectorâ??s Association, which monitors for noncompliance. You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States Mail System might constitute mail fraud under federal and state law. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me. Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees. Sincerely, |owselfesteem
I am really freaked out now!!!! I just got a call from the CA! The lady was pretty nice and asked if i had got the validation. I said yes and told her that I had a letter going out for them. Then I gave them a verbal limted cease and desist. Before we said goodbye the CSR was nice enough to say that they had sent all the info they had to me. I told her that if they had anything to add they needed to sent it in the mail. So it sounds like they have played out all their cards. If they can't validate I will force them to remove it. If they refuse then I can take them to court. I should have sent a C&D right off the bat, low
OK TEAM!!! I've got this letter, let me know how you dis/like it!! Your feedback is important so let it rip!!! TIA, |ow
Memorialization of phone conversation with aforementioned creditor. March 1st ~11AM. CSR calls for a shakedown. Samantha: Hello, may I speak with Eric XXXXXX. Eric: Yes, this is him. Samantha: I was calling to see if you had received our response to validation mailed February 19th. Eric: Yes I have. Samantha: We validated. You do know you have to pay now? Eric: No, the validation was incomplete and inaccurate. I just wrote a letter once again requesting proper validation from you. In it I included a limited Cease and Desist order. Since you haven't received the letter let me issue a verbal limited Cease and Desist order. You may only contact me regarding this matter by mail. No more phone calls. Samantha: OK. The validation was from the Original Creditor. We sent all the validation material we have. Good-Bye. Eric: Bye. It was sure nice of her to tell me that they had no more validation material. I think that I am going to memorialize this so I can fore go with asking for validation again. I will simply send an ITS once I have everything in order. Can the above conversation be construed as an attempt to collect a disputed debt? That would be a nice violation. They never updated my CR to reflect that this item is in dispute. This is the first violation. How do I support this? Just bring in printouts of my PrvacyGuard? Do you guys see anything else that I am missing. This is my first credit repair attempt, please help out an aspiring n00b. thx, Low
Re: Re: validation from CA Can the above conversation be construed as an attempt to collect a disputed debt? That would be a nice violation.
