Understand and Frustrate Collectors

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Flyingifr, Jul 7, 2003.

  1. Flyingifr

    Flyingifr Well-Known Member

    Protecting Yourself from Creditors

    Your creditors want your money. They want it NOW, and they probably want it ALL. The fact that you have some of earmarked for such foolish expenses as food, clothing and shelter doesnâ??t matter to them. This section of our web site will give you some hints on making it difficult or impossible for a creditor of yours, even if armed with a Judgement, to take your assets.

    The Creditorâ??s favorite target â?? your wages:

    Your income is your creditorsâ?? favorite target simply because, unlike a car or a bank account, wages can be attached time and time again until the debt is finally paid, or you leave that employer. Some states, like Pennsylvania and Texas, do not allow wage garnishments. Others, like Michigan, restrict each garnishment order to only one paycheck. After that paycheck has been garnished, the creditor has to file another garnishment order to collect again. Most states, however, allow a garnishment to remain on a paycheck until the debt is paid in full.

    Garnishment is the legal term for the court-ordered requirement that your employer withhold a part of your earnings and send that money to your Judgement-Creditor. While the exact percentage can vary from state to state, a Garnishment cannot ever leave you with less than thirty-five (35) times the Federal minimum wage. At this time the Federal Minimum Wage is $5.15 per hour, so your NET paycheck can not be less than $180.25 per week.

    Strategies to frustrate the garnishment:

    There is not a lot you can do to avoid a garnishment if your creditor has a Judgement and knows where you are working. Obviously, if you can, changing employers will stop the Garnishment. A creditor can only garnish a paycheck they can find. If they donâ??t know where you are working, donâ??t tell them. Donâ??t apply for credit, and donâ??t answer any questions they may ask. Just because a creditor asks a question does not man you HAVE to answer it. The ONLY exception to this is an INFORMATION SUBPOENA, which is a Court Ordered Questionnaire which you must answer under penalty of Contempt of Court. The good news is, in more than 30 years in this field, I have only found TWO collection attorneys smart enough to use an Information Subpoena.

    Another way to frustrate a garnishment is to load your paycheck with other deductions that take priority over the Garnishment, and that you will either have to pay or will get back at some future time. If you owe Alimony or Child Support, get them BOTH onto Payroll Deduction. Increase your Federal and State tax withholding. Try to get your pre-garnishment take home pay below the $180.25 Federal Minimum. If you owe Federal or State taxes, the excess withholding will pay those debts off earlier. If you donâ??t then the excess withholding will be refunded to you next February when you file your tax returns. Creditors generally cannot attach your tax refund. I realize it may not be easy to live on 180.25 a week, but thatâ??s what you will have to do to frustrate a garnishment.

    A large garnishment can be your best friend in states where garnishments stay in place until paid. Letâ??s assume ABC Company sues you for $15,000 and gets a judgement. They file a garnishment order with your employer. You earn $400 per week. Here in Arizona, where the Garnishment rate is 10% of Gross Income, that is $40 per week. Not counting interest, it will take 375 weeks (over 7 years) for the next company to get paid. Factor in the interest at 9% and #2 may never get paid. That information may just be enough to get all other creditors to negotiate a great settlement deal (more on how to do that later in this section) just to get SOMETHING rather than still be standing on line the day you retire. Then, after all your creditors have settled except ABC, you change jobs and leave ABC as your only creditor, and they canâ??t find your job to garnish. Of course, if a company YOU happen to own also happens to be garnishing your salary for a large debt owed, then the others will just have to wait in line.

    Strategies to frustrate Bank Account Attachment:

    Armed with a judgement your creditors can take your entire bank account â?? if they can find it. Here are some ways to make as sure as possible that doesnâ??t happen.

    When I was a bill collector one of my best routines was to send the debtor a check for $1.14. Accompanying the check was a letter saying we collected an illegal late charge. When the check came back in my bank statement I knew exactly where the debtor did his banking from the endorsement and stamps on the back. You can bet the next Friday that bank got a Seizure Order. For $1.14 (which I just added back onto the debtorâ??s account) I got several hundred dollars. The lesson is simple â?? donâ??t cash small checks your creditors send you. If you must, sign them over to a friend or relative and let THEM cash it (in a different bank where you bank, that topic is next).

    Bill Collectors routinely contact banks near where you live or work to find out where you bank. Many larger banks have an â??account locator serviceâ? that may or may not tell a bill collector if you have an account at that bank. If you live in a small town or small city where there are a limited number of banks, some bill collectors will just serve them all with a Seizure Order and see which one works. The solution is the Internet. I live in Tucson, Arizona and I do my banking in St Paul, Minnesota! The contents of that account is kept small, and most of my bank deposits are kept in a cyberspace bank. Let the bill collector find THAT. Follow this link for a list of Internet banks you can use.

    I do not recommend titling your accounts in your childrenâ??s names because if found out that could be construed as â??in fraud of creditorsâ?, which is illegal. Moving your banking to the other side of the world, in your own name, is perfectly legal.

    Strategies to frustrate Car Repossession:

    The rules here are different for the two types of repossessions. One type is when the Lienholder (the company on the title) repossesses the car and the other is when a Judgement Creditor repossesses.

    Lienholders are much more prone to repossess than Judgement creditors for two reasons. The first is that the Lienholder only has to cover about $350 to 500 in repossession and sale expenses before realizing money towards the debt. A Judgement Creditor has those expenses PLUS the full balance left on all liens on the car. The economics of a Lienholder repossession are much more creditor-friendly than that of a Judgement Creditor. Second, in dealer-arranged financing it is possible that the lender and the dealer have a side arrangement wherein if the car is repossessed before a certain number of payments are made, or at all, the dealer will pay off the loan and take over the debt. This is called â??Recourseâ? and you will not know if the loan is a recourse loan and what the recourse terms are. Judgement creditors have no recourse.

    Making your car safe from the Lienholder merely means that is one creditor you will have to pay. Making the car safe from other creditors means loading the car up with liens. I have a friend who actually put his dog, named Howard, on his carâ??s title as a lienholder. No sane judgement creditor will repossess a car with more than one lienholder on it. Considering that most people who owe money on their cars are â??upside-downâ? (meaning they owe more than the car is worth) with ONE lien, two mans they are not only upside down, but probably inside-out also. Soâ?¦. Get a friend or relative to give you a loan, and secure it with a lien on your car.

    Trusts â?? do they work?

    Many people feel establishing a Trust is the way to make yourself â??Judgement Proofâ?. A Trust is a legal entity that is established to perform certain specific functions. The most common purpose of a trust is to administer the assets of someone who died until they can be distributed to heirs. A Trust can either be revocable or irrevocable. The owners of this site caution you to NEVER establish a Trust without the advice of a competent Attorney and Tax Advisor. My experience is that Trusts are an expensive and often unsuccessful tool for this purpose. The reason is because most trusts not administered by professional Trustees become so â??transparentâ? that they cease to exist and a sharp lawyer can convince a judge that the Trust is â??in fraud of creditorsâ?. Let me define some terms:

    â??Judgement Proofâ? doesnâ??t mean you canâ??t be sued, and that a creditor cannot get a judgement against you. It only means that a judgement is useless against you because the judgement-creditor as no way to collect on the judgement. I like to compare a Judgement to a hunting license. Every year, millions of people buy hunting licenses. Not all of them are successful in the hunt. The license just gives them permission to look for a deer to shoot, it doesnâ??t guarantee a deer. Judgements are similar â?? gives a creditor the right to grab assets, if they can find assets. No assets, or assets out of reach of creditors is Judgement-Prof.

    â??Transparent Trustâ? means that the Trust has not been treated as a separate entity from its Grantor or Beneficiaries. As the Grantor (the person who set up the Trust) makes the wall between the Grantorâ??s affairs and the Trustâ??s affairs so thin that the wall eventually becomes transparent and nonexistent. â??

    â??In Fraud of Creditorsâ? is a transaction that is entered into with the sole purpose of making creditors unable to collect, and usually has little if any other reason. Timing is a key element in this â?? something done before default is far less likely to be considered in fraud of creditors than something done after the judgement is rendered against you but before the Sheriff can grab the asset.
     
  2. SoParkDiva

    SoParkDiva Well-Known Member

    Great post! Excellent advice I wish I had when I was dealing with my creditors =)
     
  3. Flyingifr

    Flyingifr Well-Known Member

    .
     
  4. Flyingifr

    Flyingifr Well-Known Member

    .
     
  5. Shanyl

    Shanyl Well-Known Member

    Just bringing some older good info back into light.
     
  6. pd11604

    pd11604 Well-Known Member

    Great info as usual
    Thanks
     
  7. TomJones

    TomJones Well-Known Member

    I suggest we make this sticky!
     
  8. Flyingifr

    Flyingifr Well-Known Member

    I have a series of about a half a dozen similar posts addressing alla spects of fighting back taht I suggested over a year ago to CNN Steve taht they be somehow brought to the top of the threads so they don't get lost.

    CNN Steve didn't agree and hasn't done that, so the others are waaaaayyyy back in the threads, probably lost forever.

    On the other hand, I also posted them on www.artofcredit.com and the Mods there put them together in the "Essentials" section unbder a thread entitled "The Flyingifr Method of Aggressive Credit Repair" where they are easily accessable and readable. At last count, in less than a year, that thread had over 5,000 hits.
     
  9. Stunning

    Stunning Active Member

    Wow. Lots of excellent information here!! Thank you so much, Flyingifr! Brilliant!!!
     
  10. cgalle58

    cgalle58 Member

    Wow, can see you've done research on how to avoid paying your bills? Wouldn't it just be wise to pay our debts on time and AVOID LAWSUITS?

    You're a true hero to the deadbeats of the world!
     
  11. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Thanx CG,

    ... but that orig. post is/was almost 3 years old ... moron.

    lol
     
  12. cgalle58

    cgalle58 Member

    wow, guess I'm not the only 'so called'moron that reads old postings. See where you did the same.

    But serously, you seem like someone I'd of spoken with in my 20 years of collecting. I can almost guarantee you're one of the MANY deadbeats out there who can afford to spend all day at a computer, but to lazy to get a job working behind one.

    Sad Sack..
     
  13. jenz123

    jenz123 Well-Known Member

    aw HELL NO. first of all, you do not attack butch of all people in anyway, shape or form. secondly, you don't know why a person can't pay. and third, now that i am back up, i will be damned if i am going to have a collector harassing anyone on this board.

    think of me as "Jen, the collector hunter".
     
  14. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    You tell em jen
     
  15. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    ALL posts which are posted to get bumped back to the top.

    Always best to allow others to assume you're an idiot than to open your mouth and PROVE it.

    : )
     
  16. cgalle58

    cgalle58 Member

    Wow, would prefer to think of you as Jen the 'no job' hunter..


    Or how about.. "Jen the deadbeat:..

    ring a bell..

    Oh, and nice quotes Butch....

    Maybe you can get a job writing cards for Hallmark
     
  17. Jenz2.0

    Jenz2.0 Active Member

    Haha! you are a funny one aren't you? we love comedians around here.


    BTW - where were you the night the puppy and turtle died?
     
  18. Jenz2.0

    Jenz2.0 Active Member

    i admit it! i am a deadbeat! my sole purpose in life is to NOT pay my bills...<sob><sob>...i am willing to completely reform as a debt collector - will you hire me so i can quit my job?
     
  19. NCLady

    NCLady Active Member

    orig posted by Jenz2.0
    admit it! i am a deadbeat! my sole purpose in life is to NOT pay my bills...<sob><sob>...i am willing to completely reform as a debt collector - will you hire me so i can quit my job?


    ROFLMBO!!!! Oh ...ME TOO ME TOO! :D I've been needing some overtime! ;-)

    Hey Jen...sure could use a friend like you in NC! LOL
    Keep up the good work! I'm takin NOTES! LOL :D
     
  20. cgalle58

    cgalle58 Member

    Would love to get these update quotes from you all day Jen. But I'm off today. But I KNOW I'll more than likely be talking to you tomorrow. That is of course if you un-block your calls to get calls from people you owe money too and doubtful I could get you a job, as company I work for does background and credit checks.

    Have a good day, and by the way.. sad to think you're looking for a man on a debtor website.. Try EHarmony.. Or for you, best bet would be ENoMoney.

    Have a good one. It's been boring fun..
     

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