My worst nightmare has just paid me a visit and its making me completly sick to my stomach. Long story short.. I had a credit card with Direct Merchants Bank back in like 2001, I ended up defaulting on it, and did a settlement (I believe directly through the bank) in October of 2002 of $5,000.00. The balance was like $7,500.00 or something, so we settled all but about $2,500.00 of it. I was 19 and stupid, and if I only knew then what I know now, I wouldn't be in this mess. But I am *pretty* sure they sent me something saying it was settled upon agreed or something like that, but I am not 100% sure, and at that time in my life and being 19, I didn't realize what can really come of this all afterwards, I trusted the person and paid them the $5,000.00 to settle the account and felt SO much better afterwards. Fast forward till today, my mother in law calls me freaking out that a law firm is calling her, but really it was for me, and they were asking for me with my maiden name (which the card was under) so she didn't give them my info she took theirs and I called them right away. They explained to me what this was all about and that their atty Mr. Burak purchased my account and its at a balance of roughly $8,845.00 right now, and they will be doing this as a lawsuit against me if something isn't worked out, my heart just sank. I explained to them I did this settlement, well doesn't mean anything to them I don't have the proof anymore if in fact that was proof that I received, we've moved 2x since then and we majorly cleaned house and I know for a fact I don't have it. What am I to do?! I can send them by fax copies of the check from the bank that cleared made out to Direct Merchants Bank and everything, but thats all the "proof" I have, and its not even really proof, its only shows that I sent them a payment. But...they said they do not show record of a $5,000.00 payment at all to the account..well it had to have gone somewhere! Thankfully we *should* be able to track where that money went to, I mean it was made out to direct merchants bank. They are saying the balance is $8845.00 with that payment of $5,000.00 the balance should only be around $3845.00 which is better than the $8,000.00. But am I out of luck? The SOL is almost up, its 6 years in WI they told me. I am just sick over this, I thought this was completely done with, and now 5 years after the fact they are now contacting me about it. And how ironic that they don't show proof of $5,000.00 being paid. Please I hope someone has some answers for me or even some positive light at the end of the tunnel, its true, just when things are starting to look really positive, my world comes crashing down Thank you! Sheri
What to do? According to the most reliable source of such information to be found anywhere on the internet they at least told you the truth about Wisconsin statute of limitations. You say you can't prove that you paid it but if you paid by check from your bank they may be able to look it up for you. Its worth a try even though they may charge you for the search. If you can't prove it then you can expect that they will sue you for it and you will probably be stuck to pay it all over again. This time it may not be so easy to pay as it seems to have been last time. You probably won't be able to find a lawyer to defend you and without proof most attorneys wouldn't be able to beat the case anyway. If you want to fight about it your best chance is to hope to delay them until the SOL has elapsed so the first step is going to be to demand validation. Be sure to state that you dispute the debt and demand they validate the debt at the same time. You may end up being able to sue them for FDCPA violations if you are lucky. That would probably be your best defense. Just remember that the best defense is a strong offense.
Sherri- I have no advice about your situation as I am even in a bigger mess than you I believe-- however I will give you a little tip that is helping me as I try and work through my mess(es)-- if you have a cell phone, go to your nearest radioshack and ask them for the wireless phone recorder (for my cell phone I needed an earpeice and recorder)-- it sounds crazy but just knowing that I will have "proof" how that atty or agency treats me or proof of the conversation makes me feel a great deal better when I am talking to them. I know what you mean about being sick to your stomach-- me to I am a BIG scaredy cat when it comes to this stuff and if I EVER dig myself out of this hole I will NEVER be here again!! Good luck and I am sure you will get some great advice from these guys here-- they have been very helpful with me-- good luck dear. Hope B
Once a SOL is near is there anything that you can do that will "start" the clock over again and accidentally "reset the SOL"?
Thank you both, truely, thank you! Oh I know, I will never be in this mess again, actually I thought I was out, my credit has dramatically improved, I have 2 credit cards with low limits both with zero balances and I will never be here ever again. I know I can get proof of that check, it was made out to direct merchants bank and it was for $5,000.00. I just hope that showing them this will do some good out of this. If they say its not enough, I am demanding them to go ahead and show me where my $5,000.00 was applied then, since right now they say they don't show it even been applied as a payment. Now, can I call them and ask them for validation and that I am disputing this debt? Reason I ask that is that i only have until Tuesday they said and after that they are going forward with a lawsuit. In the end, if they can show me that the $5,000.00 was paid at least and they want me to pay the rest, I will, even though I know through Direct Merchants this was settled, just so this mess can get figured out, I'd go for the smaller amount right now to clear the air, but I WILL NOT pay that $5,000.00 again. And of course, I called Direct Merchants, and they don't have my card # on file anymore, and the guy gave me a number to their recovery dept. and I sit on hold forever...I wonder if I can get a statement or something from them about this. Wouldn't direct merchants bank have on their system somewhere that this was settled?!!?!
Resetting the SOL There isn't a standard answer to that question since the laws regarding SOL are state specific. What applies in one state may be very different in another state. You may be able to find answers to that question on the net but I wouldn't trust them. What you need to do is to hire competent legal counsel (an attorney) or in the alternative at least go to your local law library and do your research. That is the cheapest since there is no charge to use law libraries. Most of the librarians are extremely helpful and if you tell them what you want they will usually take you right to the proper section and hand you the book. You should always ask for the annotated statutes and never rely on the plain statute books. The reason for that is that the annotated versions have little packets in the back which contain court decisions and you can see how the courts have ruled in cases like yours. You can also Shepardize cases at the law library to see how attorneys have used the cases and in what types of cases. Learn to use your local law library. Although daunting at first you soon get used to it and it is well worth the effort.
What to do Yes, you can call them and demand validation but you also need to send one to them certified mail. I would not miss that step if I were you. There are two other ways to do it. One is to fax it to them at a Kinkos or an office supply store where you can get a printed confirmation of delivery. Maybe you could get an attorney to do it for you if need be. I don't know about that but if an attorney sent it that should also be good enough as a last resort. In the alternative you could send it overnight with delivery confirmation where they have to sign for it.
Here is a little bit of an update: I have talked to so many people yesterday within that "law firm" my head is spinning. The last guy I talked to gave me no reassurance at all, I need to send him now a copy of this check, apparantly the 1st one was never received. So when the bank opens this morning I'll have them refax the check front and back to them. Heres the thing, the last guy I talked to asked who endorsed the back of the check, and I said the gal told me it was Bank of America, which rose a red flag for me, I have NEVER banked or had a credit card with BOA before, although then I thought that maybe they processed payments for Direct Merchants or something. It was a check by phone that I did so not a personal check that I sent in, and it was made out to Cardholder Services. This guy on the phone tells me that Direct Merchants has no relationship with BOA and that he feels my money is where it shouldn't be...gosh thats a lot of reassurance...yea right. So now what? IF that is the case, which I am sort of hoping is the case, and then hopefully I could get that money back (Please tell me that I will be able to get it back IF indeed it went to the wrong place!!) and then I could just settle with these guys and be done with it. Otherwise what I plan on doing, and a lot of people here may not agree with me, but regardless I will NOT be paying that $5,000.00 again and if it comes down to it, I would make payment arrangements on the remaining balance (I have not said a word of this to anyone there though yet) so that this doesn't get brought into a court setting, since I have no idea what to even do. The gave me the run around, since they don't have information on my account, detailed, they told me to check my credit report and find out who the CRA is that is handling the account right now, so I check it, and its Unifund, I contact them, she says it was just sold to Account Portfolio Management in December, she gives me the #, I call, and the guy gave me a number to someone, which is back at this law office! How frustrating! The law office told me to call elsewhere because they don't have detailed information on this, so I did, and I end up back at the law office. If you've made it this far, you are a saint. My biggest question is, does anyone know if it happens that this $5,000.00 somehow ended up in the wrong place, is it possible to get that money back?! I sure hope so.... Thank you!
Well, we'll see how this ends up turning out. I called the "law office" this morning and talked to the lady I spoke with yesterday she received the copy of the check front and back, she said she is going to forward that to the atty Mr Burak and she feels its going to be a closed case, that the $5,000.00 is enough to have them throw it out. Thats not what the other people told me, they said just the canceled check isn't enough (which I figured it wasn't) but she is claiming the atty should throw it out, its not worth the hassle she said. I wish I could have had that recorded, but oh well, I just hope that is the case, they see this $5,000.00 canceled check to Cardholder Services and it matches up with everything I told them yesterday, she was surprised I guess, I told her yesterday I wasn't making this up and I understand she proably hears every excuse in the book but I was being truthful about what happened and my story came through. So...lets hope that them bringing this to the atty will result in it being a closed case and thrown out, I will then go to the credit buearu and have it taken off my report. Wish me luck!!
Just bumping this back up..here is what I am at in this mess, any advice on how I should handle this is more than welcomed!! Okay, I called Direct Merchants bank to try and get to the bottom of all of this, they sent me to the Debt Mngmt area who has access to older accounts, I spoke with someone there, she could not access my acct. by the # or my social. She said what I needed to do was send a letter explaining what I need, and include a copy of my credit report which showss them reporting. So I did this and sent it with delivery confirmation. They received it, I gave them 2 weeks to contact me back by phone or mail about this research, never happened, spoke with a lady who has no more information on my account, and said to wait a few days and I should get something. Well I still haven't heard/received anything at all. They are only open M-F 12pm-4pm so I am calling right at noon today. Now I just received about a week and a half ago a 2nd demand letter from the law office, I need to get this straigtened out. I will not be paying this a 2nd time. I am kicking myself b/c if I only would have saved the letter I beleive I received this wouldn't be happening. What are my options? If I call yet again today to the Debt. Mngmt area and they still can't find anything, where am I supposed to go from here? Someone has to have something, they are reporting on my reports! Someone has to have proof of that $5,000 payment! Please any advice would be SO helpful!!
Just browsing around here on the boards on doing some yahoo searches. Should I send a Cease letter to the law office? Should I send them a validation letter? The SOL is coming up on this, I am in WI, the account was taken out in 2001 and I settled in 10/2002. I just want this nightmare with them to end!! It was reporting on my report as Unifund as well and I disputed with them saying it was settled and it was removed from my report! Although it is still showing with the OC. Again any help would be appreciated!
Hoping someone sees this, as I do not want to start a new thread I called the Debt Mngmt area and of course he has no record of the account, "call me back on Friday". He went to his supervisor to see if they would send a letter out to me saying the account was deleted, etc, but the supervisor said no. Go figure. I don't know what on earth I am going to do, he is going to check into this futher and hopefully have info for me on Friday when I call back. Any ideas how to handle the law office?
First of all, what have you sent in WRITING, and what have you received in WRITING, from either the "law office", or the party reporting on your credit reports, Direct Merchants?
In writing from the "law office" I have recieved what they call a 1st demand letter and a 2nd demand letter, both stating practically the same thing: It states: This office represents the above named client, ACCOUNT PORTFOLIO MGMT LLC, who has placed the above styled matter for collection. This is a demand for full payment because you have had ample time to pay your creditor. Sometimes we can arrange installment payments bu you must contact this office for arrangements. At this time, no attorney with this firm has personally reviewed the particular circumstances of your account. However if you decide not to contact this office, our client may consider all available remedies to recover on the balance due, which may include an attorney review of our account. It then goes on to say I have 30 days, etc... The 2nd demand letter states the exact same thing with added: You have failed to respond to our first letter. Same BS as the first letter. I have not received anything back from Direct Merchants bank from the letter I sent them on Jan. 27th. Which I sent certified mail. I sent them by their request a letter explaining the situation (acct. settled 10/2002 for $5,000.00 and also included a copy of my credit report which they requested showing that they are in fact reporting to my credit bureau. I have given them ample time to respond and every time I call back still no one knows what is going on with my account and they cannot find it yet. Thanks!
If you already paid on this debt, and in particular if you settled it in full, yet they are trying to collect on amounts you do not owe, then you would want to dispute the "debt". As you have already seen, you can talk on the phone for days with no progress toward any conclusion. In fact, it may actually be to their advantage to "string you along", so you think or hope the matter is resolved, or about to be resolved, if it allows your initial 30 day period for disputing to expire. When did you receive the first letter from the "law office"? When did you receive the second letter? Did it also indicate you had 30 days to dispute and request validation, or they would assume the debt was valid? Have you sent the "law office" a letter disputing the debt, and requesting validation? Send it Certified, Return Receipt Requested, so you can show you mailed it, and so you can get back a green card to show they received it. Have you disputed the TL on your credit report, in WRITING, thru the CRA on whose report it is showing? If so, have you received any reply from the CRA on your dispute? Who is reporting the TL on your CR? Only Direct Merchants? Anyone else? Since you have disputed their reported TL directly with them, are they showing the TL as "disputed"? If you settled in October 2002, and Wisconsin SOL is 6 years on open accounts, then this debt may not be past SOL, but if they are not even acknowledging your $5K payment, when was your last prior payment?
I responded to your questions above marked with *** So, lets hope I guess that by sending a validation letter to the law firm closes this case completely. I sure hope as hell they can not verify this debt, they obviously already have the wrong information, because they are stating the ammt. owed is MUCH higher than the balance after the settlement even. Does this generally work by sending validation, that they wouldn't be able to verify? Do you have any suggestions as to which dispute letter I should send? There are so many samples I just want to pick the proper one for this situation. Thank you for your help!! Sheri
"When did you receive the first letter from the "law office"? ***The First Letter I received from them was dated Jan. 22 2007." What matters is when you received it, not when they sent it. Presumably that was a week or so after their letter date. To best preserve your rights you want to dispute and request validation within 30 days of receiving their letter. Not much we can do about that, but they did send a second letter, also saying you had 30 days to dispute, so if they fail to properly handle a timely dispute from the second letter, you would still claim FDCPA violation for continued collection. "***The 2nd letter was dated 2/26/07. Thats exactly what it states on the letter, 30 days to dispute. ***I have not yet sent them a letter disputing the debt and requested validation." Why not? Never mind. You thought this was just a "mistake" and you could work this out on the phone. They may even have intended you to think so to let your initial 30 days to dispute run out. Even when they apparently find documentation of your $5K payment, they think they can still get the whole amount from you again. You now know who you are dealing with. Send them a letter disputing the debt and requesting validation on the debt referred to in their letter. Include a copy of the second letter to indicate what debt you are disputing. Indicate in your dispute that it was settled in full. Send it Certified, Return Receipt Requested, so you can show you mailed it, and so you can get back a green card to show they received it. Keep a copy of everything you sent, along with your Certified receipt, and your green card when you get it. You absolutely want to be able to prove you got it in the mail within 30 days of when you received the second letter. The difference between the $8K claimed due and the $0 actually owed on a settled debt means that you may be wise to get an attorney, or you might find yourself paying not only $3K, but the whole $8K. That would make even a couple $k fees cheap. You want your dispute and validation request to be timely, so that any attempt at collection, including suing, before they send validation obtained directly from the creditor may become an FDCPA violation. Not only do you want validation directly from the creditor, which might show your payment and settlement, but if they fail to send it you want the possibility of FDCPA penalties either to delay their filing suit until after SOL has passed, or to use in recouping some of your attorney costs should they sue anyway. Regarding the $5k payment, you may have been contacted thru a CA to which the account had been assigned by Direct Merchants, assuming it had not actually been sold already. The CA may have had a BofA account, into which the check was deposited. It would not necessarily have been sent directly to Direct Merchants. The CA would have been responsible for forwarding payment to Direct Merchants, if that is who they were working for, but it is not unheard of for CAs to fail to pay their clients, either accidentally or deliberately. If that was the case, it would be your position that you paid Direct Merchants' agent, the CA, that the settlement in full was binding, and that any remaining payment issues were between Direct Merchants and its agent, the CA. If you have a copy of the check, then there should be enough information to trace whose account it went into, determine what their name was and that they were a CA, and verify with Direct Merchants whether they assigned accounts to that CA. Note: I am NOT an attorney. If I were you, right after I sent out that dispute and validation request letter, CRRR, I would be talking to attorneys, looking for one with experience in consumer debt, FDCPA, and FCRA law. You are likely to have a much better outcome with proper legal representation. You might try: www.naca.net
Update...any advice is appreciated again Here is where we are at now, I sent out a validation/dispute letter to the law office with return receipt requested, just waiting on that. However in the meantime, I talked with Direct Merchants (well HSBC NV) the supervisor there didn't have much info except he asked me to fax their Credit reporting error dept. and explain the situation and they would research it angd get back to me. So I sent everything over to them and they faxed me back the next business day saying they are sending info over to the 3 major CRA's and having everything deleted. I am hoping that the law firm cannot validate (is that common that they can't?) and if for some reason they can I hope that the letter I got from HSBC is enough to prove that this has been taken care of. However I am worried if it comes down to me showing them that letter (I am waiting until after I hear back from them about the validation) that they will not accept that, since it really doesn't prove the account was settled, it does say that they are having the 3 major CRA's delete everything from my tradelines though, to me thats enough saying everything has been taken care of, right? Would an OC have the CRA's delete info if in fact it wasn't taken care of on their end? This was settled back in 2002, and I would assume that if they feel it wasn't taken care of there are just not going to delete it from the tradelines. Any help is appreciated, does it seem that I am in a good spot now? And again how likely will it be for the law firm to prove validation? Thanks!!
If the OC has not sold this debt to a CA, then they can remove negative tradelines from the CRAs. If it was settled, it should be be marked something like settled, paid less than full on your reports and they most likely will not remove that as it is accurate. If the OC can't figure out what is going on and they have put it in writing that they are deleting, I can't see how a CA could validate and make it stick, so I think you are ok.
