I have a CA who pulled a CR several months ago, and have been calling and leaving messages about once every two weeks. The phone messages are very vague, just say to return the call as it is a very important matter. Caller never identifies themselves as a collection agency. I have no idea what they want as the only thing I have not addressed is a charge off from about 10 years ago. So one day I answered the phone. I would not confirm my SSN so the kid got all discombobulated and hung up on me. He never mentioned anything about debt collection, just that this was a very important personal matter. So far, thius agency has never mailed me anything. I have lived at this same address for over six years and it is listed on all three credit reports. It was listed as 'current address' on the credit report that they pulled several months ago. My question is - Does the CR pull, any of the messages, or at least the call where I actually spoke to someone, constitute 'contact' and require written notice according to FDCPA section 809?
The inquiry alone of your credit report is a tough one, the FCRA laws are a bit loose on that aspect. The calls to your home ARE a violation if they have not sent notice of "attempt to collect a debt". If you can prove the number is from the same CA as the pull on your credit report, then you can start a case. The two acts combined create a "continued collection activity" without ability for you to dispute the debt as owed. IF the caller did not identify himself as a collection agency/agent, then that is a further violation, due to not identifying that the call was an attempt to collect a debt.
What if they are calling but there has not been any contact made? (I don't answer the phone when they call, and they don't leave a message, but they call several times a day.) Do they owe me the written notice within 5 days of them telephoning? Or is this true only if they succeed in speaking with me?
Just playing devil's advocate, how do you know that it's the CA who is making all the calls? If you don't have caller-ID and don't log incoming calls (Note: that's a good reason to subscribe to a VoIP phone service: ALL calls are logged!) then it could be a secret admirer, a love-struck teenager with the wrong number, a deranged idiot who likes dialing the phone, etc. If you haven't received anything in writing or any tangible debt collection communication, it seems like you might start with the phone company and tell them someone is harrasing you and deal with it as harrasment. A recent update to the communications security act makes telephone and computer harrassment a serious crime (I don't have the citation off the top of my head or I'd post it).
I do have Vonage and caller ID, so I just Googled the number and the name which appears on the ID. Definitely a collector...I have my recording equipment and software at the ready.
woops... This is one of my favorite plays. Do you have a CID phone number that you can lookup to get a definitive ID for the company? Caselaw... Messages MUST disclose (a) THIS IS DSDA Collections (their true business name; even if it discloses collection purposes) (b) THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT. The purpose of the message is to solicit a communication, meaning that the communication is a communication, even if it doesn't DIRECTLY disclose information about the debt. This is one of the rapidly expanding areas of caselaw. It's also the basis of one of my pending suits (soon to be filed). * The defendants failed to provide the complete name of the company as required by 15 U.S.C. § 1692b(1). * The defendants failed to provide the plaintiff with notice that the defendants were debt collectors, and any information obtained would be used for that purpose, as required by 15 U.S.C. § 1692e(11). In this case, they'ld also be flubbing if they didn't provide a validation notice within 5 days of the first message (initial communication - since the case law is framing that the phone message is a communication of its own).
Are you saying that their telephone call, and showing up on the caller ID, constitutes a communication? They didn't leave any messages. Oh, and they just called, I had my recorder going, but they didn't say anything and just hung up.
phoenix: Actual phone messages... as the OP posted... "This is an important business message, please call us at xxx-xxx-xxxx." However, the CID 'tell' as a communication would be the next logical step; and if the phone number isn't a local/toll-free number, the consumer could argue that their not leaving a message 'forced' you to call, and incur long distance charges by obscuring the nature of the calls. ccbob: the OP said that they're calling in regards to an important business matter, no secret admirer says that they're calling in regards to an important business matter...
Bizwiz41, Jam237, et al. Thanks for the affirmation. I believed that these actions did in fact constitute 'contact'. Unfortunatly I did not have the ablity to record my call with them when I answered and then caled them right back. The number belongs to either SHEKINAH or CRS depending on what they want to call themselves at the moment. What I would like to do is figure out some way to determine exactly why they are contacting me while limiting my exposure. Thinking that they have already violated FDCPA, I may be able to contact them and demand their permissible purpose for the credit report pull and demand documentation and valadation for the debt them believe I owe. Just trying to keep the upper hand here until I can figure out what is going on. Maybe I can work to get the inquiry deleted, and if it is out of SOL perhaps issue a cease and desist letter. I'll start looking for caselaw on what constitutes 'contact' and 'continued collection activity'. Again, thanks
The fact of leaving a message "...important business matter.." is communication. This can be confirmed if you call the number given on the mesaage, as usually CAs have an automated greeting stating ...this is an attempt to collect a debt....". The fact that you answered the phone, and spoke to a representative also constitutes "contact", they were obligated to inform you of your rights at that contact. In short, this CA has screwed up, and they have committed violations of the FDCPA. At this point you may wish to submit a "Cease and Desist" letter stating that they stop all activity until they provide validation of their business purpose.
Hi guy's, If they have previously dunned that wouldnt change anything would it? I get messages all the time from WAM to call so and so, some are computer and some are live, its always the same.." please call @#$% at xxx-xxxx concerning a private matter" or something to that effect. Most of the time I get CID, but since the 7.5 yr is in 1 month now the CID shows "unknown caller"??
Alright, I'm curious about something along a similar line here. My husband recently received a letter and it mentioned that it was "another" attempt to contact him about his "account". There was never any first attempt! And this letter did not include the standard line about disputing within 30 days blah blah blah. Does all communication have to include that bit? Thanks in advance.
The initial letter has to have that. It sounds like they're trying to imply that they've already sent the initial communication. Your response should state that this is the first communication you've received from them, point out that you therefore dispute the debt and demand validation. Document this well. If they claim they sent it, common law says that this creates a rebuttable presumption that you received it.
I received the same 'this is the second letter' type things recently. I send a letter back explaining that it was the FIRST letter and I demanded Valadation. Sent CMRRR. They received and signed for it on a Thrusday. Saturday afternoon I was served. That sucked.
Well, I had already sent out a validation letter the day after I got it and I don't think I mentioned it. They picked up the letter on March 28. So if I don't receive anything from them by the end of the month, I will send another letter saying that I want proof and that this was the first contact we've had from them. My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years now and I know that we've both filed change of address forms at the post office every time we've moved. They should have had no problem tracking us down, especially since we bought a house last year and all our stuff got updated when we applied for the mortgage. Thanks for the advice.
