Bizwiz . . . a wonderful story! Yes, there are people out there who know how to manage their money - and more importantly - their lives - in a way that nurtures rather than destroys. Thank you for that story . . . very heart-warming! Hedwig's comments remind me of the book, "The Millionaire Next Door," by Stanley and Danko. Based on 20 years of research, the authors summarize what traits people have who manage to sock away at least one million $$$. As Hedwig mentioned, these are people who take their lunches to work and do not worry about impressing others w/ what kind of car they drive. It is an interesting read and contains solid ideas and tips for managing money towards creating wealth. After going through some financially devastating situations myself (all situations created by other people's actions, not my own) . . . I came to see money as nothing more than digits, LOL. The digits designate, at any one moment, my ability to purchase goods and services. This has been an attempt to take some of the emotion out of financial issues. I can totally see why financial problems are listed as one of the top two reasons people list as biggest factors in getting a divorce. Money can provide a safe haven as well as an opportunity to "do good works" for others . . . but it can also drive a wedge b/n people . . . and bring out the worst in human nature. Not a new thought, but just my observation, LOL.
For your Thanksgiving reading pleasure, cont'd . . . Fast forward 35 years . . . Julia opened the front door to her lovely home, and was surprised to find the Sheriff himself standing there. Although momentarily perplexed at seeing him on her doorstep, they had been friends for over 30 years, so she invited him inside. Sheriff Tom Dalton looked down, cleared his throat, and Julia instantly knew something was wrong. "I wanted to come out here, myself," he said awkwardly, "because I felt you deserved that much from an old friend." As he spoke, he took the folded document from his jacket pocket and handed it to Julia. At first glance, Julie could see it was some sort of official document, such as a subpoena, but on further examination, she realized she was holding a notice from her bank, concerning the impending seizure of her home and property, to pay off delinquent debt. "There has to be a mistake, Tom" she said. Julia laughed nervously. "We own our house outright - have for years." "Julia," he said, "you need to call your attorney. I suspect Hayden has done some things w/ the finances that you don't know about." Julia stood in total silence, unable to speak, thoughts racing through her mind. Sheriff Dalton gave Julia a quick hug. "If you need me, give me a call," he said. And then he was gone. It took several moments for Julia to decide what to do next. It had to be a mistake. Surely!!! But as Julia flipped through the pages, trying to decipher the legal language, she realized something was terribly, terribly wrong. ********* In the coming days, Julia would discover that for over two decades, Haydn had made so many bad financial investments, that at one point, he had borrowed nearly 100% of her beloved home's value . . . and had defaulted on the loan. In addition, he had sold their beach resort condo and had sunk the proceeds into one of his hapless business ventures. There was nothing left but the mountain house, wh/ Haydn quickly deeded to daughter Gwen and her new husband, in an attempt to hide its existence from creditors. Haydn had squandered millions of dollars on land deals gone wrong, and half-baked businesses that failed. In addition, he had totally lost the impressive estate he had inherited from his father. If he had just held on to one tract of inherited land, wh/ was later developed into Lakewood's most prestigious gated water-front community, he would have survived the other business failures intact. In her 70s, Julia was faced w/ finding a job for the first time in her life. With few marketable skills, she landed a job in a retail store, making about $8 an hour. Family members scrounged up money to help Julia make the downpayment on a modest condo, wh/ Julia made sure was titled in her name alone. Haydn spends his days sitting in his recliner, watching the birds at the feeder, and making a list of what he is going to do with his money when he wins the lottery.
Biz, that is indeed a great story. People think I'm crazy when I say if I ever won the lottery (if only I bought a ticket) or somehow came into some money, I'd keep working for at least a few years. I'd probably drive the same cars. I might move, my house needs a lot of repairs and I'd rather have a house that is either one-story or configured so that I could live on one floor when I have problems with my knees. Otherwise, I'd invest the money and just let it accumulate for a while. I started saving late. Maybe in five or six years I'd retire. If it looked like I could make it on the money then I'd like to travel with my husband to lots of places. But other than that, I don't think I'd really change my lifestyle. I'd try to not even let people know I had a lot of money, because at that point you can never have another new friend or even a lot of the old ones, because all they'd want is money. I'd rather keep things as they are, with my family and friends as intact as they are.
Well, I have to admit that these "values" were hard learned by me. I myself was not the example of "modest" at the time of my story. The story re: the "modest couple" was a time when "success" started happening for me. From the "never judge a book by its cover column", this couple became "my account" as no one thought they had any assets. I made enough money off just the initial trades with this couple, that I ran out and bought a VERY expensive sports car. As my firm grew, and I made more money, I blew it all. I lived in a very exclusive area, I always considered it to be a "soap opera town", everyone was rich, succesful, good looking and powerful. It was easy to get swept up in the "good life". With all my "fast money" and new success, I suddenly had all kinds of new "friends". I socialized with actors, politicians, professional sports players, I knew them all. Then, the business failed, rather quickly, due to a lot of factors. Suddenly all my "friends" were gone, I was a person "non grata". "It" was all gone, and I was left trying to figure out how to start over. So, I wish I could say I would money would never change me, but I know it did once. Now, after the school of hard knocks, yes I would do things much differently. But I have lived through a phase where money did "change me", and I look back, and honestly, I do not like that person I was. When I hear a story like "C"'s, it reminds me of many situations I've seen. People are "funny", and when you've "had it", perhaps the worst nightmare is losing it all. I have seen people do desperate things trying to hold onto a "lifestyle". Perhaps one of the greatest lessons I learned was how fragile "success" really was. Just before my business started turning, I was near the White House in DC, where there are numerous homeless people. One asked me for "help", and has I looked at him, I realized how fragile my success really was. I handed him a few hundred dollars (that was nothing to me at that time!). The person with me was shocked, and asked me why I did that. I replied, "..because that could be me soon.." So, yes, money is just money, but..then again it's not! Much of that is wrapped up here in this forum. I sincerely wish that "C" gains value from the lessons of others in this mess. I think she will come up "richer" than her family was.
I believe, that money is really a 'middle man', a 'broker', if you will. People may want to have money, but it's usually not the money they're really after, but something else that it stands for. That might be security, power, acceptance, not having to worry about bills, being able to buy all the toys, making other jealous, keeping up with the Joneses, whatever. But I believe even those things are standing in for something else: Finding happiness. Isn't that what we all ultimately want? So, there are really 2 layers of 'stand-ins' between us and happiness. Society around us 'teaches' that it's those 2 layers that we have to go after to find happiness, Yet, the more we put our emphasis on those things, the more 'happiness' seems to be elusive. The trick is to find what really makes us happy and then we can pull the other 'stand-ins' to us, but they won't be that important anymore, because they're not needed. I think it's really all about self-worth. If people really like themselves, they're not that interested in getting thngs to impress others. But all around us we get these messages that we're not good enough. All of advertising tells us that we're lacking something, that we need improvement of some kind. So, it's really hard for people to have this great self-esteem about themselves And the more we feel insecure the more we try to combat that with external things, because that's we message we keep getting. It's really a catch-22 and everybody has to figure it out for themselves. It's not really a lesson that takes, if it's just told. ..... Ok, ok, I'll stop my philosophical musings - lol
Well, I grew up poor. I was never what you could call "rich." My ex and I were doing OK, and had newer cars, but not real expensive. We bought a used sports car. Then when he left, I was stuck with about $77K of unsecured debt. I had a hard time dealing with it. That's when I found out who my friends really were. Now, I'm nearing retirement age (although not necessarily nearing retirement) and I guess I'm seeing things from the point of view that money isn't going to buy me my health or anything like that. So I'd just keep doing what I'm doing and enjoy what I've been given. Or at least I hope so.
The lessons we have all learned . . . BW - I so understand your story. And HW - I understand yours, too. Actually, I have been where BW has been (but on a smaller scale - an ad agency for me - in the social climber world of "Lakewood", not a brokerage) and HW - my DH and I are where you are, due to financially devastating divorces. We did not know each other at the time - we lived 1000 miles apart - but we were both dealing w/ really bad situations (his wife - paranoid schizophrenic - mine - Bipolar!!!) and we both ended up taking huge financial hits b/c of our divorces. One reason DH and I so quickly bonded is b/c we knew where the other "had been." We continue to struggle to put things together, and are still dealing w/ the financial hits we took 17 or so years ago. We managed to put four kids through college . . . last one in school now . . . job losses along the way . . . and we have managed to hang on to real estate but we still struggle w/ debt. Never declared BK but ran up huge credit card debt trying to "float" things to keep from losing our houses. None of the debt was due to vanity purchases - we live "lean" but still manage to enjoy our lifestyle. Instead of eating out, I cook, and we are big home DIY'ers. I can stretch a dollar five different ways!!! DH made a big mistake that did involve ego. Instead of telling his kids he could not afford to send them to the prestigious Ivy League colleges where they were enrolled, he took money out of his retirement funds, thinking he would be able to recoup later. BIG BIG mistake. DH (a corporate bigwig at the time, LOL) didn't want to admit to his social circle that he could not afford four kids in school at the same time plus the alimony (and we are talking annual tuitions alone of $26,000 plus for each one - kids were all born w/in 3.5 years - set of twins included). We are now paying the price for the losses he took to keep the image up. We could get pretty bitter about it, but we have decided we will be working forever - and luckily, we both do what we enjoy doing and are good at doing. DH is older than I so actually, he had planned to have at least $1 M in cash, his house paid off, no debt long b/f his 62nd b/day, wh/ is in a few days. He was on track to do it, too, but dealing w/ a mentally ill spouse put a monkey wrench into his well-laid plans. I know he gets down at times, seeing his classmates from his MBA program retired and living in paid-for McMansions . . . but oh well. We like to think we are happier than most of them. BW - when I made CCO/Sr VP at the ad agency, I bought myself a beautiful new Mercedes Benz. Good thing I bought a car that lasts. I am still driving it 17 years later, LOL!!!! V- you are right. Money represents so many different things depending on where a person is in his/her life. For me, it always represented security. When I discovered my now-ex had siphoned off all the savings and cashed in the investment accounts (my attorney suspected into an off-shore account) . . . it hit me that I had lived one crazy life working 70 plus hours a week . . . so I could feel "secure" and in the end . . . at 38, I had nothing. On top of it, then-H had put second mortgage on the house (w/o my knowledge - yes, it can happen!!!) , and no one, including a Private Investigation firm, could find where the $$ had gone. I walked away w/ my Mercedes Benz, some nice furniture, and $25,000 in cash - should have had at least $220 - 240,000 (after equitable distribution) if the investments, savings and equity in the house had not disappeared into thin air. Oh - and I have not mentioned here that my son was the recipient of a trust from his paternal g/father, started in 1984, w/ initial deposit of $80,000. That also disappeared, but that is another story altogether . . . and one reason that I am so determined to help C find answers about her custodial account. DH cared more about the Porsche (yes, I had paid cash for a used 911 in the 80s, LOL) than anything else (at that point anyway - remember - he is Bipolar and spends money like no tomorrow when in a high cycle) so I traded him the Porsche and agreed to no alimony if he would just sign a custody agreement giving me custody of my precious son. Seemed like a worthwhile deal to me and one I have never regretted. But it sure did make things financially difficult. On top of that, the ad agency tanked, due to some shady deals/contracts the CEO got into (that I knew nothing about). I took $20,000 from my divorce settlement and put a downpayment on a distressed house in a resort area and w/ the other $5000, I started my agency (really, I was free-lancing). I learned very quickly that the only security I would have in my life was in the knowledge that I was smart enuff to figure out how to bounce back no matter what life threw at me. All I wanted to do is provide a stable, loving life for my dear son and give him a good education. Part of my divorce decree/custody agreement included that DH was not personally obligated to pay for son's education - and true to his word - he has not paid anything - okay - he did contribute about $2000 at one point. He has the $$ to do it but he is much too narcissistic to care. (You may ask - where did the trust fund go? Good question. Private investigators and the best attorneys have not been able to help us totally unravel that mystery). So, HW, BW, and V . . . I totally understand what each of you has shared. I am so determined to help C b/c I want her to have some peace w/ what has already occurred in her life . . . and to understand how it happened and that she is going to overcome and flourish despite broken promises of the past. I truly believe that in the end, we all have to grab the shards of what life has left us with . . . whether b/c of illness, job loss, divorce, death, bad decisions . . . and move forward w/ as much dignity and clarity of thought and purpose as we can garner. There will always be jobs that don't work out, for whatever reason . . . clients will change firms . . . illness can hit . . . and there will be disappointments and yes, even devastation, when promises are broken and dreams are shattered. Sometimes, there is little left but the belief that we will survive with dignity . . . and perhaps, as V stated, it all comes down to a genuine belief in our self-worth and ability to sort through what is really important in life. And it surely helps to have the support - and sage advice - from others who understand the path we have walked - and the journey ahead!
Bizwiz - totally got your "homeless" story Bizwiz, I had a similar experience in DC in Jan, 1991. My world was unraveling rapidly at that point . . .and I honestly did not know where things would end up. I was there for a conference . . . all decked out in expensive, chic business attire, LOL, and staying at the JW Marriott and doing my best to keep up the "successful" facade . . . and truly wondering . . . where the hell would I be in a year - in six months???? I was w/ a group of business people and we were walking in Georgetown after dinner . . and stumbled upon a green space w/ people huddled in cardboard boxes . . . it had started to snow. We all gave the miserable people a wide berth . . . but I remember thinking at the time . . . my life is a lie. That was the moment I decided to just let it all go, quit fighting about the trust fund (wh/ Ex-H kept saying was a figment of my imagination - never had existed - and I had no paperwork to prove differently), give up my Porsche, secure custody of my son and move on . . . There is something very powerful (even rather mystical) about DC, especially at nite!!! I also met my Husband in DC!!! The juxtaposition of stately, almost ephemeral-looking granite buildings and monuments lit up at nite . . . with visible poverty and suffering at the doorsteps of those venerable institutions . . . can set the stage for life altering moments . . . sure did for me!!!!
'I learned very quickly that the only security I would have in my life was in the knowledge that I was smart enuff to figure out how to bounce back no matter ' That's the key to all! Knowing that you will always land on your feet is security in itself. Once you have that trust, then 'having money' is not that important, because you know you will always get it somehow. And when things seem to go 'wrong' then be open to seeing the 'silver lining', because it's always there, if we're open to seeing it. A lot of people aren't. Many people cling to their stories of being a victim and being helpless, because it let's them 'off the hook'. They don't have to take responsibility and can blame it on someone/something else. It also gets them attention and they get addicted to that. But if you know that you can always get through anything, then that's the most important lesson we can ever learn in my opinion.
I agree with you, Ani. You just have to make up your mind to bounce back and to make things work. I also agree that DC is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I like it that I live nearby, and can be there in around an hour, depending on traffic, of course.
Ani/"C", any updates? Just wondering how the family meeting went, and if there is any new information. Hope the holiday was enjoyable....
Hey everyone! Sorry for being so quiet lately...but that's how it's been around here these days...nice and quiet. I'll be waiting for a couple more weeks in anticipation to here from the brokerage on their findings. I'm hoping that they can come up with the records from the account before 2000. I still haven't heard back from TU in regards to my credit report so I'm waiting on that too. I remember calling them a year ago trying to get my credit report (This is before I had even seen the other two) and they said I didn't have enough information to get my report. Now I know about the Kay Jewelers account and the bill in collections. I could call and admit to these things, but their not really "mine" so I don't know what to do. Maybe in January the system will let me have another chance at the free annual report. I did find out that my dad...who I haven't talked to in years....may have a statement from when my grandfather withdrew 35,000 from my account and listed it as a debt. I haven't called him yet, but I'm working up to it. At least I have the number now. Without that information I am doubtful that there will be substantial evidence against my mother and her dad. I went over the account records I've recieved thus far with Ani over break and the withdraws are rediculous when one puts together that I was working everyday after school and on the weekends making $200 a week AND mom was getting child support for $800 a month! I'm going to be calling the college I went to my first semester to find out how much it actually cost and whether any of the money was refunded so that I can try and match up the amounts with what is on the account records. I'm also wondering if I can find out how much my car cost them. I know where they got it, but I'm not sure if dealerships keep that kind of information. The main thing is...I want to match up these withdraws with factual reciepts of transactions. There was also a trip to Chicago I took to study medicine and I need to find out how much that cost me. It still amazes me how they have STOLEN from me...and they might get away with it. Just boggles me... Hope your Thanksgivings were nice and relaxing too
oh! And I've been wondering...do you think I should try getting a loan for school to help build my credit? Instead of paying for the whole thing up front. I have been trying to think of ways to help build my credit reputation back up!
Well, you'll have a tough time getting a student loan, considering this whole situation. Due to your age, your parents will have to disclose thier financial information. You can try, but you will be asked to provide this information to determine "financial need". As for rebuilding credit, I think you need to focus on repair, that will be the quickest way to improved credit. You have two of your credit reports, correct? Have you gotten a credit score yet? Go to www.myfico.com You probably could get your TU report if your purchase all three reports, just use the information from the two you have to verify your identity in the purchasing process. Let us know what your credit reports say, there is a tremendous amount of knowlege on this forum.
If I verify the accounts such as Kay Jewelry then aren't I "verifying" that those accounts are mine? I'm just scared that I'll get stuck with a bill that I have nothing to do with.
C, you could get the report and then questions those accounts as 'not mine' with transunion, by sending them a letter, listing the accounts, include a copy of your driver's license and I usually mention my ss# in the ref. line. That will show your identity to them. They will work on it and then send you a new report. That way you don't confirm any of the bad accounts.
No, verification of your identity (to get your credit report) has nothing to do with "verifying" the accounts listed on your credit report. There are processes to deal with incorrect and inaccurate information you find on your credit report. My suggestion was only related to "getting" your TU credit report. Most likey the identity question they (re" your report), you can answer with information from your other reports.
Yes, I agree. This is very exciting. Although I am truly sorry for the reason of the excitment. I have no knowledge of any of this stuff, nor any advice or help to offer but I am pulling for C with my prayers. Nothing at all to do with this subject, but my son was arrested a few days ago for selling drugs to an undercover cop. He's in jail on $100,000 cash only bond. Needless to say, my world is falling apart and I am beside myself with grief. Like I said, I'm so sorry this has happened to this sweet girl, but this thread has been a life saving diversion for my mind to keep it off all that is happening in my life at the presenttime. I hope C's situation turns out good as well as my son's (only God can tell, hopefully for both.)
Still nothing from the old brokerage.....I hope they come up with something. I found out from my grandparents that my dad has a note that has the withdraw of $35,000 documented, but I have yet to call him. I haven't talked to him in a few years and it might be pretty awkward. Anyway...just wanted to give you an update
C, don't let up on the prior brokerage house, just keep pressuring them. And, don't forget to pressure the current one either. The biggest crime here would be to let this all slip by by "inaction". FYI, there was a case like yours out of Georgia, where the mother even moved to Florida. The beneficiary was able to secure liens against their properties in FL from a GA judge and FL judge.
