I sent Mann Bracken a request for validation of a debt they supposedly had from a credit card. They received my request according to my return receipt, etc. I had not heard anything from them in response to my request - all the phone calls stopped, etc. On the 43rd day from the date they received my request, I receive a letter from them which was sent to me via regular mail at a relative's address. I do not know what made them send their response to a different address then the one they had previously been corresponding to. The letter was a response to my request for validation and contains a computer printout of the date the account was opened, the supposed balance, and is signed by a Texas Notary. It also contains pages about arbitration. The debt is within the SOL, I would dispute the balance that they have stated, but it is a debt that I cannot pay. I have no house, car, or job to pay this debt from. What should I do at this point? They did not send the letter to me at my documented address. Should I claim I never received any letter, or should I respond somehow?
When were you living at the former? Was any mail forwarded? YOu are going to have a hard time proving that you did NOT get it. As for the arbitration papers, what does it read?? Woofer
The address belongs to a relative, there was never any mail forwarded, but that address does show up on a credit report as a previous address. I don't understand why they mailed something there when for the past 6 years all mail has been coming to my current address. I even listed my current address for the past 6 years on the validation request. I haven't seen the arbitrations papers yet, I had a relative read me the info over the phone when they called me to tell me I had received something in the mail. I will have the letter in my posession to read in a day or so. From what I gather, it is not the notice stating that the account is going to arbitration, but rather a response to my request for proof that I had agreed to an arbitration clause. The letter sent regular mail, which leads me to believe that it is not the letter they send notifying you of the arbitration hearing date but simply the validation information that I requested.
When they send you the letter saying they are going to send off to NAF it is just done snail mail. YOU need to send back a refusal of arbitration CRRR. They will most likely ignore...When they get a case number from NAF then they will have a sheriff or FedX send you the arbitration claim against you. This is when you really have to be on your toes. I think they could have sent it to your former address so they could do sewer service on you : ( Keep ahead of this as you need to be on top of the situation, OK??? Woofer
Winning You have to get pro active in these matters in order to prevail. That is especially true if arbitration is expected or threatened. There are some special ways to argue once it gets to your local court but they are by no means certain to prevail. Assuming that what you receive from your relative does not contain a full and complete validation then they have no right to proceed with collection activity. If they do then you may very well have a cause of action and a case in federal courts. Also,are they in your credit reports? If so, what is their permissible purpose for being there? If there is no permissible purpose for them to be in your credit reports then you have further causes of action. Each month is a separate violation and each report they are in compounds that. You can run up damages in a hurry. Do it to them before they do it to you.
Update - the papers I received are 1) A letter stating that they have enclosed validation per my request. 2) A printout that lists the credit card number, the mann bracken acct number, the alleged balance owed, date of last payment, date acct was opened, and name of present creditor (Chase Bank). There is a blank marked Name of Original Creditor. All basic account info. On the next page is a "Detailed Account Info" That has places to itemize atroney fees, etc but they are all 0. It also has a spot to circle "Documents attached - application, statements, etc" but nothing is circled nor attached. It is signed by a verifying agent from Chase Bank and Notarized by a Texas Notary. The letter was dated June 6, the notary signed it June 19, and it was postmarked July 8. (Long time!). I know what the account is, I would dispute the balance that they say is owed, but the other info is correct. What should my next step be?
Advise them that the information is incomplete that you are requesting full account history including a copy of the original contract signed by yourself. Mann & Bracken will probably dismiss everything and close their file out at that time.
I am going to do so, but I am scared that the next thing I get from them will be the arbitration notice. I have heard that this company is relentless.
A friend of mine went through this with M&B already. I sent them a C&D and a VOD letter, they sent back the same proof they sent you, next thing she received was an arbitration notice via FedEx. I filed the same VOD, including contract with the arbitrator, M&B failed to respond or they dismissed the arbitration, I can't recall which, it's been 2 years or so.
I believe on her's it was about 1-2 months after they responded to the VOD, but each case is different.
I am also dealing with Mann Bracken on a Chase account. I have a lot of past history with MB so your post caught my eye. Years ago I was a member of this board but quit when the problems got so bad with those two clowns who were always fighting (BB and one other). I forgot my sign in name so had to start over. Hopefully something I say here will help you some. In the past (a couple years ago), sending a validation letter to MB got them to leave you alone. They would give up contacting you and eventually sell it to another collection agency. I had this happen a couple of times. Recently they have started to master the magic of arbitration. And, they have discovered that it is easier to win if they don't give you notice. That is why they send mail to another address even if you have given them your new address. They will continue to do this even if you keep sending them letters saying they are sending stuff to the wrong address. So rule #1: always send your correspondence to them by CMRRR and always tell them your correct address. Also, check your credit reports and see if they are pulling your credit. If so, copy that report to show what your address was at the approximate time they pulled. That gives you more proof they knew your address. On to arbitration. I'm sure you know what a scam that NAF arbitration is. You will probably lose if it gets that far. MB is now claiming that Chase account holders all agreed to submit disputes to arbitration. This was done either when you applied, or when they later sent you a notice saying that if you used your card again, you were agreeing to arbitration. There is a lot of case law on this, so keep reading other posts. I noticed in your post #5 in this thread that you mentioned asking for proof that you agreed to arbitration? If so, was it a specific request for documentation, or was it a generic request for "all documents"? On my current Chase account with them, I specially requested any proof that I had agreed to arbitration. And I have done this on more than one occasion. They have ignored my requests and replied that if I don't pay, they may send it to arbitration. I wrote them telling them I did not agree to arbitration and I would fight any attempt they make to send me to arbitration. Since then, they have left me alone. Be warned that they are very aggressive in this arbitration scam and it is a risk you face. But that will happen whether or not you fight them for documents or stand up to them. On another board I have been following posts on MB and have corresponded with people who are dealing with them on Chase accounts. Our general opinion is that MB is looking for easy cases to win. And, they want to be reasonably sure that if they do win, they can collect something. Those of us in this little group are in deep debt (as reflected by our credit reports) and have been left alone by MB, other than a letter from them demanding payment. So my opinion is that if you are deep in debt, there is a reasonable chance they will leave you alone. And I think it helps to put up a fight if you are in this position. But I also think that if they see that you may have assets, they will go after you. MB is a funny group. I have another two debts with them, both a lot larger than the Chase account, and on one, they have never contacted me. On the other they sent me an initial letter, I sent a validation letter, and I never heard from them again. Both of these have been with MB for over a year. Good luck with them. Please keep posting about your dealings. It will help someone in the future. By the way, I would settle if I could get a reasonable deal. Have they ever offered you a deal? If so, what were the numbers? I have researched this issue a long time and have found only a few who got offers, and those were for 80%. I don't want to make them an offer because that would call attention to me.
What I'm hearing from lawyers is that the reality is they don't need a signed contract to win in court. I guess it's a risk you take?
Most people do not sign the credit card agreement. It is an online process. The theory is that if you ask for the card and then you use it, you are agreeing to the terms. If you don't agree to the terms, then don't apply for it, or don't use it. A judge will buy that argument so no signed agreement is necessary. But, there are other ways to win. They are required to present proof you owe the money. Sometimes the judge will take an affidavit. But if it is a JDB, you can argue that an affidavit does not prove it is you, does not detail what the charges were, etc. And, in some cases, the JDB will have to prove they own the debt. By the way, MB is sometimes a collection agency collecting for the original creditor. Other times they act as an attorney collecting for a collection agency. More recently they have been getting in deeper with being a JDB and suing on their own behalf. Some people will argue that when you go to court, claim you "don't remember the debt". Make them prove the whole thing. I don't think that I could argue that with a straight face. Of course I remember my debts. And I don't think a judge will buy into that argument.
Update: I talked to my dad's lawyer today, he said that it was unconscienceable (sp) that MB would take a consumer to arbitration in Texas when the consumer is in a state nowhere near Texas. He also said that since MB is not registered to practice in my state, they would have to find a local attorney to file in court to have the arbitration upheld, or to ask for a judgement. His advice at this point was to offer them a very small settlement that I could pay in lump sum cash, even though the debt is over 10 grand. He didn't seem to think that further letters about asking for further validation would do any good. He said if I own no property and have no assets (which I don't) to tell them that and see if they settle. He said the worst thing they do is the emotional hassle of scaring people into paying them Oh, I specifically asked for arbitration paperwork. Question for you: How do you know if MB bought the debt or is just collecting for Chase?
Demand to see a written signed agreement beween chase and mb,ask for all written contract's giving them the account,the balances,the orignal balance,minus late and over the limit fee's throw smoke their way,they woun't know what your doing that your really stalling until you figure out what you want to do.
To determine whether Mann Bracken bought the debt or is collecting for Chase, look at your credit reports. If Chase is showing a zero balance, that usually means they sold the account to the CA. If they show an account balance, that usually means they still own the account. Also, the paperwork I received from MB said they bought the debt from Chase, even though they did not. It is possible they may tell the truth in what they sent you, so at least look at what they said in the paperwork they sent you. Maybe you will catch them in a truth. (MB telling the truth? Stranger things have happened.) Remember, MB acts as a CA, collecting debts for original creditors or other collection agencies; as a JDB who buys debts and collects for themselves: or as a law firm, actually handling litigation for others.
I don't think this went away, I think it has been stayed and one day it will pop up. If there was a file number with NAF then it would be wise to call and see what has happened with the arbitration. My NAF ordeal was not heard of for 4 years and then an award was issued for over 40K! In all my experience I have found NAF the very worse to deal with and they do not play fair whatsoever. In fact they make the worst of the JDB seem ok. : ( Woofer
