Poc Z, I respectfully disagree. I even found on this board where someone else was talking about the same exact thing. A contract does exist between you and the OC, but not you and the CA. They don't have the right to sell or assign your contract giving the CA the right to collect form you. It's not a mortgage that can be sold or assigned. There has to be extreamly specific language in any contract spelling out where they have the right to sell or assign your debt. VERY FEW OC's have this and in fact it has to be their own internal collection agency for this to apply. That I'm aware of only American Express has their own internal agency, and maybe one other CC bank. The bottom line here is irrespective of your opinion that a contract may exist w/ a CA from on OC, my 20 years of credit rebuilding experince tells me there never is. My letters have NEVER failed to work. Beyond that if they refuse to provide POC there's allways the FCRA 623 Challange. My system has never failed, given the right amount of letters, and law to clean up and remove any and all deregatroy items from creidt reports, including tax liens, judgments, and bankruptcys. The longest I've ever taken to have a credit file complety sanitized is 11 months, with average time being 6-7 months. You see I have a business partner who was a senior exective with Equifax for 20 years. So I probably know more than the average "secrets" for cleaning up a credit file. Bottom line: There's nothing you can't get off your CR if done correctly.
Ok my is when a ca buys an account from oc.My thought is this.When you assume a contract you should assume it lock stock and barrel well we know they don't they raise the rates and add to the contract.My thought is they already have changed anything you had with the oc.I believe that breechs the contract which makes it now and void.So there is no cotract hence no right to collect on it.
Poc JJ.... BINGO! But it's so much more than that as we're talking about a CA's right to enforce a commercial claim against you. They simply can't prove that there was a meeting of the minds between you and them. It's huge hole in the collection net. I've got a hybrid leter which actually covers both A. POC. and if they can in fact provide POC, then B. Verify and account. The acounting part is key. Quote the case law and make them put up or shut up. They can't. I actually had some jackass CA send me a "bill of sale" supposedly for my debt. It said nothing anywhere about me, my account, name, numbers nothing... I pointed our that this could be for "Fred Flintstone" or any other person. They finally gave up and went away when I pointed out that they were not in any position to enforce a commercial claim against me and I'd file complaints and sue them etc etc etc bla bla bla....... The bottom line with any of this is if you point you that you know more than they do, easy, and you're smarter than them, very easy, and you'll kick their butts in small claims court in your county, time consuming but you'll almost alwasys win if done correctly, they pretty much always go away. They have too many other easy targets to fleece. Make it so painful and difficult for them and they will leave you alone. The key in acomplishing that is to challange them, CA's. OC's, CRA's etc., on points of law and proceedure which they almost always never follow and violate flagrantly at every turn.
When i have talked to them i never ask a question i always tell them that i'm only paying 9.9% interest on this Right and they will say oh no your paying 29.9% which i was paying to the co when i was in credit relief so i've got them on breech of contract if they have one.When they take over they assume the deal i had with the co.which is a written contract between me the credit relief org and the co.i was in the middle of credit relief when wama/proviadn charged off,which i think is a breech of contract with the co.
Poc JJ that's exactly correct. A CA cannot modify your agreement. You have to show them that you were paying 9, not 29% etc. The way to deal with this is with something called "Accord & Satisfaction". It must be done in a very particualry way to be binding. Effectively you tell them in a certified letter the terms at which you will pay them. Then you send them a payment and letter w/ a restrictive endoresement. If they cash it, they accept your terms. You may have to sue for enforecment but you will ultimately win. Depending on the size of the debt, the best way to use the A&S process is to make a single settlement payment in full. Most of this info is available on the internet. I'm also happy to direct you to some excellent professional services.
On the account they don't report it as discharged in bk7,neither does the oc,so my thinking is to let it ride so i can nail them on illegaly trying to collect a discharged debt.the other one is sending me a monthly bill,have 9 of them they were also discharged in bk7.
JJ, trying to collect on a discharged debt is a H U G E FDCPA violation. Failing to report it proprly is another huge violation. What you have to ask yourself here is: What is my goal? If all you're after is to clean up your credit file then start the standard dispute process stating that the debt was included in the BK etc. As to the collection agencies; your attorney should have included and notified them of the BK. If the OC was in the BK then they sold the debt to a CA who's then trying to collect, that is another huge violation. There are great letters dealing w/ that part of it on this board. If the idea is just to make them go away write them a certified letter with your BK file info and they must go away. Period. James
You are wrong. Here's what is says in the document titled "Account Agreement" that came with my WAMU card (and by activating the card I agreed to these terms): "We may sell, transfer, or assign your Account or our rights in this Agreement to another person or entity, and, if we do that, that person or entity will take our place in this Agreement." From my HSBC "Cardmember Agreement and Disclosure Statement:" "We may sell, assign, or transfer your Agreement and Account or any portion thereof without notice to you. You man not sell, assign or transfer your Account. If we assign your account, the assignee shall have the same rights as we do under this agreement." Chase: "We may assign your account, any amounts you owe us, or any of our rights and obligations under this agreement to a third party. The person to whom we make the assignment will be entitled to any of our rights that we assign to that person." I dare you to look a judge in the eye and say that a collection agency can't collect on an assigned account because you didn't make an agreement with them. Their right to collect on the assigned account is spelled out in your agreement with the OC. I will concede that your approach might work as far as getting something removed from your report. But if it does, it doesn't work for the reason you seem to think. It works on the "litigious nutcase" principle, in that it convinces the CA that you are going to be more trouble than you are worth.
I agree with TeeVeeDude. James, you need to study contract law a little more, especially the law of assignments. In fact, the agreement doesn't need to specifically state that they can assign. The other party doesn't need to agree to an assignment. By the way, why did you bump a thread that is over six years old, anyway?
I agree with the assignments,but i think they should have to honor the context of the agreement instead of changing it to no longer have the same meaning of the contract you had with the oc.right or wrong i just don't think it's right,
TeeVeeDude, thank you for posting those quotes. I didn't have any handy when I wrote my reply. In Fact any contract can be sold or assigned unless specifically prohibited either by the contract or law.
Poc Sorry folks but the credit card agreement assignment language doesn't hold water. Never has, never will. I know what they say. But I also know what I've been able to do over the last 20 years of professional credit rebuilding. The POC works every time. The CA's aren't smart enough to even know the CC agreemnt language even exists. And even if they did, there's not really a way to make it stick as the law requires a little thing called a "Servicing Disclosure Statement" which NO credit card company provides which effectively makes the transfer language null and void... .Nice try though... One other reason this doesn't apply is that CA's buy bad debt in bulk. They can't possibly produce your specific contract. And in order for ANY DEBT to be enforcable the ORIGINAL SIGNED CONTRACT MUSt BE PRODUCED. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I know virtually all of the foremost credit and collection experts in the US. Of which, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I consider myself one of them. (Only in stealth sense as I preffer to remain unpublished and somewhat anonymous. I started writing on public boards out of sheer anger at what I see happening to people.) The rules and laws that govern debt are allways changing. That's why my friend re-writes his credit secrets book/course every two years. All I can tell you is what I know and what I've personally experienced for me and my clients: What I do works. Look, you can make any arugment as devils advocate you want. One way or another using one law or another with the right letter or another I will allways beat you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can listen to me now and hear me in the future and belive me later... I will allways... Pump, the CA up! I've NEVER LOST..... NEVER.... James
Some folks said not to ever send ID's to CA's Based on the research I have been doing from this forum, ripoffreport, etc, some experienced folks emphasize never to send ID's especially a DL to CA's. Some even go further to recommend not to sign the validation letter because the CA's - the really bad ones - have a way of lifting your signature from any ID or a letter and put it magically on contracts. Does anyone disagree with this stance?
Oh that would be the best day in my life if I could get them to do something like this. This is where it becomes criminal fraud.
Sadly this is true. But in order to make your letter have the force of law if you end up in court you must sign it. Don't EVER send identifying documents to a CA E V E R! They have no need or righ to see any of this information. James
Ok I though I would add..... I have to add my 2 cents. Every time I have used the POC letter, I have not heard didly squat from a collector again. I owed Wells Fargo $2500 for my bank account overdraft, went to collections, sent them POC letter, that was a year ago, never heard anything since. You may disagree, but it has worked for me!
Re: Poc I know this is almost three years old, but I felt the need to comment. Jim you are sort of both right and wrong. Creditors may assign the rights to collect to the debt collector. The problem the debt collector usually has is that it can't show a chain of ownership of the debt, can't produce the original contract between the creditor and debtor, or can't prove that they actually own the debt. That is probably why you have the success with your method. I defend many third party debt collector lawsuits and have never had a debt collector prevail because of these issues.
