About two years ago I moved halfway across the country from TX to NH. In TX, I had Charter Communications cable internet service. In NH, it was Adelphia, bought out by Comcast, with no charter nearby. Knowing this, I canceled service in person at a walk in service office. Charter failed to do their paperwork correctly, and charged me for two months service beyond cancellation. Before the account went to collections, I told them that I didn't owe because I'd previously canceled, and that the serviced residence was vacant from the day of cancellation for at least two months. They sent the account to collections. I contested the debt immediately in writing. When I started working to clean my credit, I demanded a debt validation and reiterated my claim that the debt is invalid, with an explanation of why I believe the debt is invalid. Instead of validating the debt, they deleted the related tradeline from my credit profile, and sent me a letter stating that they would do exactly that, and that they were no longer pursuing collection. Apparently, they were assigned the debt for collection, but didn't purchase it; and they remanded the account back to Charter. Charter sold the account to a Dallas based collection agency. The Dallas based collection agency promised (in writing) to delete the debt from my credit report if I paid it. Since it was already deleted and wasn't showing on my reports at the time that I received their offer, I responded by demanding a validation of the debt, explained that they had purchased a contested debt, why I contested the debt, told them that I'd consider any reporting activity that they engaged in to be materially damaging and defamatory. They have failed to validate the debt. I think I should write a follow up letter. I was thinking of saying this: ************************* To Whom It May Concern, On 24 October, you received a demand for validation of a debt showing on account ####, allegedly owed to Charter Communications. In my previous communication, I asserted that the debt is disputed, as I believe that the charges arise from a period of service extending beyond cancellation of service. I reiterate that the incorrectly assessed charges are for a service period after verbal service cancellation in August of 2006 which occurred at their walk in service center on Denton Highway in Watauga, Texas. In my previous communication, also sent as Certified USPS First Class Mail which you signed for, and for which I have a receipt, I generously offered you a period of 30 days (federal law provides 15 days) in which to validate the debt and prove your authority to collect. You have failed to do so. I believe your actions constitute an admission by silence that this debt is invalid and that you have no authority to collect this alleged debt. As I have previously stated and for the reasons stated within this letter, I will consider any credit reporting activities you undertake with regard to this debt to be in violation of the FCRA, materially damaging and defamatory. Thank you, Me ************************************** Alternately, I'm willing to pay not for a deletion, but for a positive entry on my credit report. This would include submitting a three year on-time payment history and closure of account in good standing. This is effectively bribery, but I don't care because I'm paying a bribe to have the truth told and I think the system is crooked. I don't know if they can submit the payment history, but I suspect that they can't. Any thoughts?
Thoughts? Yes. Don't do it. First of all, there isn't any requirement in federal law stating they have to validate within 15 days or 30 days or any other set time period. In fact, they can simply ignore you forever and there is absolutely nothing in the law that you can use to force them to do anything at all. Using that statement makes you look foolish and toothless. All the law says is that if you send your demand for validation within the 30 days immediately following their initial communication with you they must cease all collection activity until such time as the validation process is complete and has been mailed to you. They don't even have to go out of their way to make sure you get it. Not much you can do unless they do something that constitutes further collection activity. Sending follow up letters demanding the same thing you demanded in your first letter can do more harm than good. The best use of a demand for validation is to get them to violate the law so you have grounds to sue them. Stop and think about it. What are you going to do if they comply with your demand with valid proof of the debt? What is anybody going to do if they never violate any law in any way and the sender has insufficient funds to pay their debt so he does nothing but wait for his ship to come in which it never does? At some point in time the debt collector turns it over to an attorney to file suit and still the person does nothing at all believing that nothing can be done since his ship still hasn't come in. The attorney does nothing wrong either and gets a judgment then goes for garnishment. What is the debtor going to do? Nothing he can do about it, is there? So do you really want them to comply with your demand for validation? No, you don't. So why would you want to send a second or third or more demands for validation? I was on a conference call last night and a lady said she had sent several validation letters to some debt collector but they never complied. She learned very quickly that she was doing the wrong thing and why. What you want is violations, not validations. Another thing I think you would be doing that is not in your best interests is stating anything about the law. They don't care what you consider, what you know or don't know about the law. In my opinion consumers should never make any kind of threat, implied or real to a debt collector or an attorney. Don't threaten to sue them, just do it. Go see an attorney even if you plan to do it pro se. Most attorneys will give you a few minutes of their time for free. Outline your gripes and see if the attorney is interested in taking the case. If you can't get an attorney to take the case then you probably don't have a case to begin with.
The FCRA does provide time limits for the reporting agencies, and that's a common point of confusion. I can see how I made that mistake. That begs the question if they'd have to prove that they mailed the validation in the first place if this were to show up in court. Going to Texas isn't a hardship for me, and I'm likely to pre-empt them if they provably violate any statute. If I could do so in my local small claims court, I would pro-actively sue to vacate the debt and force positive reporting. I don't think I have a way to do that. (I can't find anything in law which prevents any court from ordering positive reporting!) Pay or negotiate. I don't owe the debt. Legal mechanics may force me to pay it, but I don't owe it. I am not willing to pay for a simple deletion of the debt from my credit report. I think I can win in court if it comes to that. I don't have paperwork proving service cancellation. I have ample paperwork showing that my claim of verbal cancellation is very likely to be valid. (I vacated the premises before the date of cancellation and moved 1700 miles away. Three other services were successfully verbally canceled and terminated (water and sewer, telephone and electricity) on the same date.) Not applicable in this case. I can pay the debt (out of my coin jar, actually) and probably attorney's fees if I lose in cash on the day that they're assessed. I don't want the judgement or to pay for something I think that's mine already. I actually don't want validations or violations. I want the account reported correctly or not at all. I am tempted to float an offer to them: Report the account as closed in good standing (with no charge off) and I'll pay half. Report the account as closed in good standing with an (accurate!) three year on time payment history and I'll pay in full. Otherwise, I don't owe and won't agree to anything. "Payment by deletion" works. Why shouldn't "Payment for positive reporting" be on the table? -S
...Also, I think that my demand of proof that they have authority to execute anything with respect to this debt is reasonable. I know who Charter Communications is, as I had a relationship with them. I have no idea who the CA is, and have no reason to believe that they are who they say they are or that they have any authority with respect to the instrument that they refer to. Asking for proof of authority is common practice.
I dealt with Charter in nevada,And somewhere in their install agreement is a section that deals with non payment and other issues and say's .Charter or their agent (collector).So that gives the legal basis for collection.If your challenging on the basis they don't have the authority to collect you would lose that part.Now if you went into one of their offices to cancel and left there equipment,they should have an record of return.When you deal with Charter they don't listern.My dealing when my mother in law died she had Charter.While going through her records i call them and said that she had been sick and in the hospital and passed away and i was trying to help her out.In her best accent she said (I need to talk with her about her bill as your not the one who owes the money)My responce was wth are you saying.I exp;ained the concept of death and i would be more than glad to take my cell phone to the cemetry and she if i could hook them up.The answer i got (That will be find).I hung up and the bill is now up to 1000 after 4 years.So have fun with them.
So, if I read this correctly, the current CA is not reporting this on your credit report? If not, then ignore it. There's nothing more to do. If they are and they've not validated the debt per the FDCPA, then sue 'em for continued collections. IMO, anything else is a waste of time and postage.
Wrong again. No court will make them prove that point. The reason is that they are a business and are therefore assumed to do things in a certain way. Forcing them to mail such things by certified mail would increase their costs of doing business tremendously. So the courts all give them the leeway. Forgetting something? They can't sue you in Texas if you don't live in Texas. They have to sue in your home county. Of course they could try to claim that Texas is where the contract was entered into and maybe get it done that way but you could try to get it moved to where you live now. In law, preemption only occurs if there is a conflict between state and federal law. So please explain to me how federal laws dealing with this type of situation conflict with state laws and which state and federal laws are conflicting? Can't do that? I didn't think so. You can't vacate a debt. You can try to vacate a judgment but not a debt. And you can't force positve reporting either. You can't force a debt collector to change what the original creditor put there. The debt collector has no control over what the original creditor put there. The DC only has control over what they might have put there. You probably can't find anything in law that permits it either. That might help. Of course you don't want validations but if you knew how to win you wouldn't say you don't want violations. If the judge rules against you then violations is the only way to get the upper hand. It probably isn't going to get on the table unless you put it on the table in such a way that they can't refuse. If you try to get it done without a written contract signed by an officer of their company it won't happen even though you pay them in full. Verbal agreements won't get the job done.
I have no reason to believe that this collection agency in particular has any legal authority to collect. I want proof that they own the debt, irrespective of the debt's legitimacy. Or, to put it another way: I want the CA to prove to me that they aren't attempting to commit fraud since they are unknown to me, and I have no reason to have prior knowledge of them. @ cap1sucks: Ah, really not helpful. Seriously. Telling me I'm wrong about stuff that I infer I don't know doesn't make me think you're paying attention. Your points about venue are technically correct but don't address the problem that the CA most likely will try to sue in Texas and if I'm not present or represented, they *will* win by default and I won't be able to easily protest the inappropriateness of the venue, especially not after the fact. I also think you underestimate the authority of the court dispense remedy or relief; and I would specifically ask for positive reporting were I in a position to sue. Let's also not argue about terms of specific parlance or art. It's counterproductive and otherwise distracting from the questions I have at hand. Lastly, reactive strategies in anything have high loss rates. You are correct that this alleged debt is not currently reporting. I've just cleaned up a much more major mess which was only revealed to me when I applied for a mortgage, I am completely unwilling to let this go. It's unresolved, and I believe it will bite me when I turn away from it. I will, instead, put a stake through it's heart. I want proof in writing that I can take to court that proves that the debt is resolved. If payment by deletion is possible, why can't payment by positive reporting be on the table? Apparently it can be. The next question would be how to ask for a payment by positive reporting. What are some things to ask for, and what to avoid? Since all of my outbound communication has been and will be certified first class USPS mail with return receipt requested, with the original packet or letter duplicated and notarized, we can safely assume that I won't make any verbal agreements. Making them would be difficult because I won't respond to any verbal or electronic communication, as it's not strongly evidentiary. -S
Quite so, but how do you plan to address that problem in Texas from where you reside now? If you don't have a workable strategy that addresses that potential problem they might get a judgment in place without your knowledge and opportunity to defend. What happens if the process server goes to your old home and not finding anyone home they do a sewer or throw down service? That does happen from time to time and the only way the defendant finds out about it is when they domesticate it into your new state. I am fully cognizant of what the courts can do. Not only what they can do but what they constantly do. Reactive strategies have an extremely high rate of success if taken to the proper level and are well presented. Properly done their success rate is very near 100%. The success rate in state courts is near zero however. I'm sure that you are well aware that if you want such proof you will have to find it and present it at court. If you can't do that then you will most likely end up losing. If you think you can force them to admit the truth then I wish you the best of luck. Yes, it can be but you will probably have to force it upon them. They aren't likely to be so gracious as to do it of their own free will. Don't ask for anything. Do a search on this board using the word "westcap" or in any search engine and you will find out how to force them to delete for payment in full. That strategy has been on this board for many years now. It is the only method I know of that might get the job done for you
The Texas TFC has teeth, real teeth. Use it and you can get this fixed. You can demand validation if you invoke it and they DO have a specific timeframe to comply.
Yes, but he lives in NH, not Texas. Can he use it even if he is not a Texas resident? I don't think so. I tend to think that he would have much better luck complaining to the Attorney Generals in both NH and Texas. It is hard to get the Texas AG to do much of anything but some persistence can get the job done. I don't know about the NH Attorney as I've never heard anything about the NH variety. Some AGs are very good about getting consumer complaints resolved and some are not.
It's not a credit card account so likely choice of law does not come into play. The company would have been operating under the laws of the state where service is provided. Cable companies are usually regulated by the state utilties commission or some such office. In fact, that might be where I'd go to make a complaint. As far as positive reporting, you've never had an account in positive status with the CA. The CA can't force the OC to report anything.
Yes in calif the city gives them authority for a fee and than regulates,the state also regulates them,so wonder why cable and sat is high.
The government organization that regulates cable may be a good place to complain and possibly get this settled. The cable companies don't want to get in trouble with those agencies, or they can lose their authority to operate.
Quite so Hedwick. And FDCPA says that the suit must either be brought in the consumer's home state or the state where the contract was consumated so I'd say they would have the right to bring suit in Texas then try to domesticate it into NH. The only problem they might have is getting him served in Texas since he don't live there. But as I said above, there is the possibility of a sewer service. Plenty of that happening around the country.
Does the CA use Texas as a reference to the aledged debt? Does the debt refer to service in Texas? If so Texas TFC applies. Whack em hard with the TFC.
