Over $500k in Personal and Business Credit Card debt: Advise? When should I file?

The longer you wait the higher the debt will grow,so you consult with a lawyer.

 

Why should he even care how much higher the debt will grow if he is going to file bankruptcy. As you know, I am very much against bankruptcy for the individual. If he has a corporation then bankruptcy is the only realistic way to desolve the corporation.

Bankruptcy is to the corporation what probate is to the human being. The defunct corporation usually has creditors to whom the remaning assets (if any) must be distributed first and then if anything is left over it goes to the stockholders or the corporate owner. Once that process is completed the defunct (dead) corporation can be declared legally dead.

Probate court does exactly the same thing for the deceased person. It is just that simple. The fact that lawyers managed to find loopholes in the original bankruptcy laws which allowed the living breathing person to become financially dead and make untold billions of dollars perverting the law still don't make it the right thing to do and that fact is brilliantly illuminated by the fact that bankruptcy does not eliminate the debt nor absolve the debtor from his debts regardless of what popular myths and beliefs might lead the gullible to believe.

The bottom line is that bankruptcy does not eliminate the debt nor does it absolve the debtor of the responsibility to pay what he owes.

 

Bankruptcy does eliminate the debt. That's the whole point.

With this kind of debt, I would think about it, although I'm not a big proponent of BK either. But at this point you need to get out from under the load and move on.

The problem with trying to sell assets and then pay some debts is that it may be considered giving preferential treatment to one or more creditors, which could cause problems when you file.

I don't know how much of this is personal debt and how much is corporate debt. That might make a difference.

At any rate, I'd talk to one (or more) bankruptcy attorneys right now. And ask them about liquidating some of the assets.

You can probably get a free initial consultation.

 

Once again, Bankruptcy does not eliminate the debt. All it does is make the debt legally noncollectable. Only 3 things can eliminate the debt. (1) The debtor pays the debt in full (2) An agreement is reached between the creditor and the debtor to lower the amount of the indebtedness (3) The creditor (a natural living breathing human being)dies. If the creditor is a corporation and files bankruptcy the debt is still owed to the defunct corporation's creditors.

Just because a debt is declared legally noncollectable does not mean that the debt is eliminated.

 

If it has to be reported 0 balance 0 payment then maybe its discharged and considered paid unless your bankruptcy is revoked.I don't know a lot about law.But a lot of mine is marked paid included in bk.If I'm wrong please correct me.I do know if they try to collect they can be held in contempt of court and sanctioned.

 

I really can't see how I could make it much plainer. When a bankruptcy is filed and fully approved by the court it becomes legally noncollectable. Your statements about how it has to be reported are correct. Legally speaking the bannkrupted debts are declared noncollectable by the court. Morally speaking the debtor still owes the debt. He is morally obligated to pay up even though a court of law has declared the debt noncollectable. The fact that the debtor still owes the debt from a moral standpoint is probably best evidenced by the fact that the bankruptcy is never expunged from the debtor's public record. It remains on the public record even after the debtor passes on to his heavenly reward as a mark that says "This person did not meet his moral obligations to pay his just debts."

Bankruptcy remains on the public record and any creditor can access those records freely unlike credit reports which are limited to the length of time allowed by law. If the bankrupt ever applies for a loan or a bond or a job and the application asks whether or not he has ever filed bK he must answer truthfully.

 

I might say that i did send a payment after the discharge to a couple of accounts that were returned,basicaly saying we would rather screw you than mark it paid.So i said the hell with it,so i dismiss any moral obligation to them,because when i was sick and need them to help me out,they said no we elect not to make any payment plans with you until your able to pay your regular payment.Then they let the collector dogs try to eat the carcass.I tried to meet my obligation.And to be honest i personally don't care,when i know someone is down i do what i can to help them out.You see Heaven knows i tried and was rejected.As for my creditors i hope the dog of life lifts his leg on them.What do you think about that?Angry as hell in Idaho!

 

If its business debt tied into personal credit cards.you could just file a business bk.

 

Your credit? If they sue you, you'll owe them all that money. And they won't be asking you to pay them if they can figure out how to just take it. Of course if they can, they'll find a way to add some large interest rate to the judgment so that it will continue to increase. Think on the order of doubling every three or four years. This then goes on for 20 years in most cases. To explain why someone might decide to go BK.

 

Who appointed you God? BK is legal and can be found in the US Constitution.....have you ever bothered to read that piece of immoral crap.

A Chapter 7 discharge technically does not absolve debt but it makes it uncollectible. Thereafter the burdened debtor can have the "fresh start."

A Chapter 13 discharge makes all debt PAID IN FULL. I guess that is why it is sometimes referred to as the repayment plan.

There are a lot of documents that are PRs that remain in databases forever.

You're a judgemental jerk who is the worst kind of ignorant ism. You're probably full of them all racism, sexism, anti-semantism. You make me puke.

 

The Fifth Amendment is also in the Constitution. That doesn't mean you want to have to use all its provisions.

 

If the business was a corporation then bankruptcy is just about the only thing that can be done if the corporation had a great deal of assets. If it had no assets then just let it go. There would be some tax concerns to worry about but a good accountant can tell you about that. Yes, the corporation might get sued if you just let it go and if so then you would have to hire an attorney if you wished to defend. If the business was not a corporation but merely a DBA then you are liable for all of it.

You say that your biggest fear is getting sued. You ask how bad could it be if you get sued. Business debt suits are one of the most difficult to defend because you don't have the protections allowed under FDCPA but FCRA still applies. If you get sued they can garnish wages if you are working now and live in a state where wage garnishment is allowed. They can garnish any money found in bank accounts, take vehicles, boats, or any other titled items provided they are free and clear and of sufficient value to make it worth their time and trouble to do so. They can put liens on property and they can go into your home and seize anything of value they can find there. There are state laws which govern what they can and cannot do and each state is different You need to look up your state laws on post judgment remedies. I would recommend you visit LAWDOG.com to learn what they can and cannot do in your state. There are also federal laws on garnishment you should be familiar with as well.

There are ways to make most things they might ordinarily do impossible for them to do. You can make it impossible for them to garnish wages, you can make it impossible for them to grab any vehicles, boats or other titled items. You can make it impossible for them to go into your home and seize anything there. You can make it very difficult or nearly impossible for them to get anywhere with liens on property but that isn't easy in most cases. You can't keep them from grabbing money they might find in bank accounts so the only remedy there is learning to do without banks in most cases. You can't get away with putting your money in someone's name such as your wife, relative or friend. They can use subpoena duces tecum to force those other parties to bring their books and records into court for inspection and there is little that can be done to protect against that kind of action.

So whether it is business or personal debt you can protect yourself against most things they might try to do to collect but you have to use corporations to do that. It isn't cheap and there are quite a few pitfalls you must be aware of in the process so you don't slip up. In essence, using corporations you can sue yourself and win. Using corporations it is possible to garnish your own wages before they do. It isn't cheap, there are extra taxes that must be paid and you sure don't want to run afoul of IRS in the process. There are costs involved in setting up the corporation(s), hiring an attorney to file the lawsuit, costs money to file the lawsuit to get the job done and more but the end result is far less devastating to your income and property than simply losing it to your creditors and being a debt slave for many years. It is also far cheaper than filing bankruptcy.

Yes, doing it will also further depress your credit scores but your credit is already wrecked so that won't make much difference. You can cure most of that through credit repair techniques.

So would bankruptcy be a better way to go? That depends on how far you are willing to go to avoid it. If you can file BK and absolve your debts that way then filing BK would be a far less stressful way to go. Whether a person should file bankruptcy or not has to be a personal choice and each person has to make that decision for himself.

 

I did. If you have any objections to that just ask God whether I can do that or not. See what God has to say about it.

Why would I bother to read anything you consider to be immoral crap? Surely you wouldn't want anyone to do that now would you?

That is exactly what I said in my earlier posts. I'm glad you agree with me when I said that bankruptcy makes the debts noncollectable but does not remove the moral obligation to pay one's just debts.

Thanks for the information.

Again, thank you for corroborating my earlier statements.

How did you ever figure that out? Yes, you are quite correct. I have been accused of that and more from time to time.

Yes, but even though I have many faults I still have no problem loving myself. On the other hand you forgot a few isms. For instance, you forgot to mention Blaspheminism. "Take the patriarchy and stuff it up your Messiah."
You forgot to mention Intercommunism.
"The proletariat shall not rest until the means of communication have been wrested from the hands of the bourgoisie."
Andy Cappitalism.
"Lend me five quid, luv?" "Cor, you're not investing in S&Ls again!?"
Robotulism.
"And in Detroit, another six dozen industrial welders succumbed to Mrs Dorfmann's canned beans today, bringing the total costs to..."
Superegotism.
"My conscience is bigger than yours."
Siliconservatism.
"Keep the Free Market free of foreign memory chips!"
ACLUphemism.
"I hear your son is a card carrying member of the- um- the Willie Horton Fan Club"
Kleenexorcism.
"In the name of the Lord, SNEEZE the devil right out of ya!"
Cecil B. DeMilitarism.
"Rambo III, sweatier than ever, kills a cast of thousands!"
Lollipopulism.
"There's a Sucker born every minute."

Sorry to hear that but I can help you out of your problem by referring you to Sick Saver Barf Bags. There are actually several manufacturers of barf bags so getting yourself a good supply of them should be no problem. There are even some barf bag museums that will give you a good idea of the various types available. No need to just let it fly in public.

 

What?

You forgot,If if and buts were candy and nuts then everyday would be Christmas.To anybody who want's to know Cap 1 is our in house ego-maniac and for what ever reason we love he/she.lol

 

good stuff,should make a fine movie.

 

And if wishes were horses beggars would ride.

And while on the subject of religion, it has been said that God praises religious fruit but don't care much for religious nuts.

 

Most people who file bankruptcy are honest people who feel badly about not paying their debts. Many believe that bankruptcy is immoral or that they are doing something wrong. As their attorney, I understand how they feel about bankruptcy, but I believe they are being too hard on themselves.

Here are a few reasons why I believe bankruptcy should not be a moral issue:

*
People promise to pay their bills. People also promise to take care of themselves, their spouse, and their children. Sometimes things happen in life which make it impossible to keep both promises at the same time. If your family is more important to you than your creditors, then bankruptcy may be the right thing to do. You can always repay your discharged debts when you are able to do so.
*
Deuteronomy 15:1-11 enacted what is essentially the first bankruptcy law: At the end of every seven years, you must cancel debts. This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel the loan he has made to his fellow Israelite. He shall not require payment from his fellow Israelite or brother, because the Lord's time for canceling debts has been proclaimed" (NIV). In 1800, Congress used this law as the basis for the first bankruptcy statutes when it said that a person can file bankruptcy every seven years.
*
Walt Disney declared bankruptcy before he created Disney World in Orlando, Florida. If not for the bankruptcy laws, this entertainment giant would not have been able to achieve his dreams.
*
Congress enacted the bankruptcy laws to help you. The law recognizes that when you are swamped with debt, you are unable to provide for your family or to be productive in our economy. It is in your best interest, and in the best interest of the people who depend on you, to clean the slate and give yourself a fresh start in life.
*
You have probably already paid back your credit card debt through your payments which the credit card companies chose to label as "interest" and "penalties." The credit card companies are equally responsible for your bankruptcy. When you first encountered financial trouble, these creditors probably did not lower your interest rate or allow you to defer payments. The credit card companies are usually not understanding or sympathetic. These companies don't care if you file bankruptcy because they have already recouped any losses through their 18 percent to 26 percent interest rates.

 

727(b) Except as provided in section 523 of this title, a discharge under subsection (a) of this section discharges the debtor from all debts that arose before the date of the order for relief under this chapter, and any liability on a claim that is determined under section 502 of this title as if such claim had arisen before the commencement of the case, whether or not a proof of claim based on any such debt or liability is filed under section 501 of this title, and whether or not a claim based on any such debt or liability is allowed under section 502 of this title.