My taped conversation with AmEx

PART ONE:

January 8, 2002, 4:28 p.m. ET. -- I telephoned American Express Special Handling (Salt Lake City, Utah), at 1-800-453-2639. Since neither my state, nor Utah, nor New York or New Jersey (the AmEx headquarters offices) requires the permission of both parties to tape, and since AmEx gave explicit permission to tape in its initial recorded greeting, I did in fact tape the call and just transcribed it, as follows:

AmEx Recording: "This call may be monitored or recorded as part of our commitment to quality service."

AmEx: Thank you for calling American Express Special Handling. This is Susan. How can we help you?

PsychDoc: Uh, yes, hi, this is [PsychDoc]. Who am I speaking with?

AmEx: This is Susan.

PsychDoc: Susan, hi, um, I have a question for you. I actually spoke with you once before and was not clear about this at all. I had applied for an American Express Green Card in July. July 18 was when I was denied. That was subsequently reconsidered. Ann Brady in your Executive Office had referred that to Special Handling.

AmEx: Uh-huh.

PsychDoc: And it was denied again August 18th. There were at that time some incorrect items on my credit file related to well, just to keep it short, those things were removed.

AmEx: OK.

PsychDoc: Equifax on December 5 sent you a revised report that says, "Dear Customer, please find enclosed the results of your request for Equifax etc. A revised copy of your credit file has been sent to this credit grantor. American Express TRS, Salt Lake City. Um, when they send, um, that report was dated December 5, that was a recent report.

AmEx: OK.

PsychDoc: I haven't heard anything from American Express about that.

AmEx: Now is this in relation to an application back in August?

PsychDoc: Yeah.

AmEx: Because I know they only, the applications are only kept on file for approximately 60 days.

PsychDoc: Why is that, when that would appear to fly in the face of the federal laws that allow the credit bureaus to send reports for up to 6 months and then 2 years in the case of employment? It seems that American Express's policy about 60 days would sort of short-circuit some of my rights.

AmEx: When an application is processed, it's only maintained for 60 days. If no decision has been made at that time, or any corrections submitted, then the accounts themselves do leave the system because we would need to obtain new information after that length of time. A new application would be required in order toâ?¦

PsychDoc: What kind of new information are we talking about?

AmEx: Well, uh, if the application that we had such as the one that you're inquiring about was denied back in Augustâ?¦

PsychDoc: Rightâ?¦

AmEx: And there was not any further attempt to correct the situation in that length of time, then the account is considered dormant, and the application is removed from the system. And then a new application if you want to reapply nowâ?¦

PsychDoc: My question is this -- yeah, and I know I could do that, and in fact I have, during the interim, I applied for AmEx Blue and was accepted. But I still want a charge card as well. And, uh, it seems to me what you're talking about is, after that period of time you need new information, specifically credit reporting information.

AmEx: Right.

PsychDoc: Well, Equifax sent you on December 5 a revised file which is in compliance with the Fair Credit Reporting Act. And what you're telling me is that AmEx ignores that on their own volition.

AmEx: Well, if there is no application on file, uhâ?¦

PsychDoc: Then you ignore it.

AmEx: There's nothing they can, uhâ?¦

PsychDoc: It seems to me that's a flaw in AmEx's policy that sort of flies in the face of the federal, of my rights, basically. Uh, you knowâ?¦

AmEx: I can check to see if there is an application that it may have been referred to on file for you if you'd like.

PsychDoc: OK.

AmEx: Ok, what is your Social Security Number?

PsychDoc: OK, XXX-XX-XXXX.

AmEx: You said that was XXX-XX-XXXX?

PsychDoc: Right.

AmEx: Ok, Mr. [PsychDoc], it looks like the only thing that's been showing now on file is the Blue Card, a Blue type application, and just for identification to make sure that I do have the correct file, may I get your date of birth?

PsychDoc: Yeah, XXXXXXX XX, XXXX.

AmEx: Ok, the only one they are showing is the Blue Card.

PsychDoc: So what happened when Equifax sent a new credit file to American Express on December 5?

AmEx: Alright, they indicated that they did receive a copy of a credit file that was notated on this file for Blue.

PsychDoc: Well, it wasn't meant for that obviously, because it was resent. I was accepted for the other. This was resent for the earlier application, and they did that within the six months allowed by law.

AmEx: Apparently, I mean, this is the only application that may have been on file now at that time that it was received because of the other application being aged and left the system.

PsychDoc: Well, I think what would have to occur, according to what you are telling me, is that I would be obliged to put in a new application.

AmEx: Yes, for theâ?¦

PsychDoc: For the Green.

AmEx: For the Green Card, mm-hmm.

PsychDoc: Unfortunately what that would mean is it would incur another hard inquiry. Now, keep in mind, uh, I've got, and every hard inquiry as you know chips away at your credit rating.

AmEx: That is correct, uh-huh.

 

PART TWO:

PsychDoc: So what we're talking about is in July I had an AmEx inquiry. And then I had another AmEx inquiry when I applied for Blue and was accepted. And then Equifax on their own sent you a revised report December 5 because of the errors in the first round in July, and so that doesn't merit a third inquiry. But if I were apply again, I would. In other words, it seems senseless. What is the date today? This is what, Januaryâ?¦

AmEx: Today's the 8th.

PsychDoc: 8th 2002. They sent this report to you December 5th, 2001. I'm just not in the mood to incur more hard inquiries on behalf of American Express when, uh, Equifax has acknowledged their error. They've sent a revised report. I've demonstrated credit worthiness by qualifying for Blue, uh, and in the very short period of time demonstrating an excellent payment history. Moreover I've been paying on my wife's account for many years as an authorized user, or whatever you call that, Additional Card Member. Bottom line is, I think it's a little bureaucratically inconvenient and harmful to me and harmful to my credit rating for me to go ahead and submit a new application -- when according to all the rules of the FCRA I have followed the rules, and so has Equifax.

AmEx: But unfortunately the only, I mean, we cannot process something that we do not have an application for.

PsychDoc: Well, can't you get the application?

AmEx: It is no longer a valid application. It's too old.

PsychDoc: Don't you have it on file somewhere?

AmEx: It cannot be revised. It's too old.

PsychDoc: According to American Express? Certainly not according to the law.

AmEx: Yeah, well, the application must be something that is current and be processed, you know, within 30 days.

PsychDoc: Well, let me ask you this before I let you go, Susan. If, according to the law, the credit bureaus are willing to forward a revised report to anyone you've applied for credit from for six months, what's the purpose of that law as it applies to American Express?

AmEx: They're submitting the information. I mean that is for your benefit. Um, but the application that it apparently was intended for, it was no longer the application on file any longer.

PsychDoc: Soâ?¦

AmEx: So therefore when we received any information, it was notated on the only application that was available, and that was for Blue.

PsychDoc: So, since American Express doesn't keep applications open for six months, which would seem to make sense given the law about credit bureaus being able to revise information for six months, since American Express doesn't keep the applications for six months but instead sort of arbitrarily chooses to close them at 30 or 60 days, that part of the federal law just doesn't apply to me.

AmEx: Cause there's no longer a validâ?¦

PsychDoc: According to American Express, it's no longer a valid application.

AmEx: The credit report, I mean, a lot can happen within six months. That's why we do notâ?¦

PsychDoc: Yeah, yeah.

AmEx: keep applications out for a period of time.

PsychDoc: But you also know that the credit bureaus revise things, so in the case of the report that was sent to you from Equifax December 5, that's pretty current. I mean, there's not a whole lot that can happen even, there's not even a billing cycle that's occurred between December 5 and today, you know, well, I guess one just closed. But, you know, I think the December 5 credit report is pretty current. My alternative is to apply again and incur another hard inquiry which is harmful, and that's what you're telling me to do if I want to pursue the Green Card application.

AmEx: Yeah, because there is no application. There's nothing for us to process for a standard charge card.

PsychDoc: OK, I think I have grounds for legal action.

AmEx: Well, that's something that you can take up with the Executive Offices if you would like.

PsychDoc: I think I'd rather take it up with the Knox County General Sessions Court. Ok, well thank you very much for your time.

AmEx: Alright.

PsychDoc: Ok, Susan.

AmEx: Thank you, Mr. [PsychDoc].

PsychDoc: Bye-bye.

AmEx: Goodbye.

Call ended at 4:41 p.m. ET.

 

Re: Equal Credit Opportunity Act (E

Frankly, I agree with MJ too -- if I really wanted the card, I could incur one measly inquiry and be done with it. Plus, I already have Blue, LOL, and that was my original goal. The point is that I'm interested in just having some fun toying with the larger issue. It seems that this particular portion of the FCRA is written so that it LOOKS like consumers are protected from the negative consequences of credit file inaccuracies. After all, the FCRA says that CRAs are obligated, at the consumer's request, to provide corrected reports to potential creditors for 6 months following any file corrections -- and up to 2 years for issues related to employment.

Now it stands to reason that some credit or employment opportunities naturally and unavoidably cease to exist after a period of time. For example, if Comcast Cable is looking to hire a Vice President of Marketing, and there's only one Vice President of Marketing, and I don't get that job because of my incorrect credit file, then of course I'm out of luck. That job has been filled. On the other hand, if I'm applying to be a midnight shift worker at Federal Express in a scenario where FedEx is practically always looking for late-night workers (let's just say for the sake of this example), and I don't get the interview because of the poor but incorrect credit file, then I should at least get an interview for up to 2 years in situations where the job didn't "go away." At least that's what the FCRA seems to imply to this somewhat-reasonable reader, LOL.

In the case of credit applications, credit card companies offer cards every single day. That isn't an opportunity that just "goes away" (like the Vice President of Marketing position at Comcast, lol). The FCRA makes us all feel protected when Congress included that language that CRAs will send corrected reports to potential creditors for up to 6 months upon request. But -- and this is the point I would like to have fun exploring -- what is the point of that language if creditors arbitrarily "close the application" in one or two months? In other words, if the law really protected us as I believe the law intended, then creditors wouldn't simply shut the window long beforehand simply because they feel like it. This is an issue about consumer protection and credit accuracy.

I should have been explicit. My apologies to those who missed the point since I didn't spell it out. If this was just about my needing to go through a whole hell of a lot of pain and trouble to get the measly Green Card, then I'd already have the Green Card alongside my Blue, lol. I don't want the Green Card that bad. Instead, I want to see my rights protected as the law suggests they will be. I think breeze said it best: "It's really just all stacked against the consumer, anyway you look at it."

Do we have to fight to preserve every single stinking right the FCRA and FDCPA provide, or should we just roll over and wink along with these abusive companies? Surely there's a way to pursue this. Greg, do you know how to request one of those legendary "FTC staff opinions"? Is it as simple as my asking for one?

Doc