But if the letter is still available, it's not just an oral agreement, it's in writing. of course, there was an agreement to 300 for more months. if those aren't paid, then the deal is off and there's no obligation to give the car up. If the current credit is low, then maybe this isn't a bad deal. a poor negotiator will get ripped at a dealership on many levels: front end and back end. How old's the car and what's it worth? and do you still have the letter he sent stating x mos x 300 equals your car? that'll be key.... If you don't have any options for transportation then what options do you have, really... I know that sounds a bit harsh but it may be reality unfortunately.
RWB, My mother could be my savior here for sure. However, I have purposefully refrained from getting her involved anymore than I abolutely have to. Her husband is an abusive man. She would certainly sacrifice her safety and sanity if I asked her to. It would take a little persuasion, but she would do it. But this is something that I just don't think I can ask of her. He would make her pay dearly for siding with me. Marci is correct in her analysis of him; he's very controlling. And I would feel responsible for anything that he did to her as a result. Calmest_LA
Good advice all around. Point of order, lol... I didn't say I was against using the courts to settle this; rather, I said that should be the last option after trying to work it out. It's not clear how dragging mom's husband to court would impact mom's relationship with her daughter. Perhaps it wouldn't, but I would want to explore that fully. Here's a mental health heuristic you can take to the bank: people tend to marry others who operate at their own general level of dysfunction. In other words, for every sadistic SOB out there, you'll find a masochistic victim waiting to happen to satisfy some unknown unconscious urge or another. Of course, I'm leaving a lot out here, lol -- like a few hundred thousand pages of data. But, since this is another pithy Creditnet post, I'll end by saying that families can be very complex, individuals can be complex even beyond their conscious understanding, and mixing finances into the mix can be a recipe for disaster. Throw a little courtroom drama in there, and suddenly the opinions of aunts and uncles and cousins and grandmothers come seeping out of the woodwork. Next thing you know come the late-night phonecalls from in-laws suffering from borderline personality disorder who plead, "How can you do this to Harry? Don't you know that you and Imogene mean everything to him?" And on and on and on. There's an old Alcoholics Anonymous slogan I really like that says "Keep It Simple." (AA leaves out the "stupid" part, thankfully, lol.) In this case, keeping it simple should be a goal if that's possible. Call your mom. Try once more with stepdad. Take Marie's advice regarding attempting to get the info directly from the original financier. Failing all of that, take the SOB to court and nail him to the wall -- but only if it won't damage another valuable relationship. (Sometimes it's not as simple as, "if she loved you, she wouldn't take his side." You have to be the judge. Some things are more valuable than cars. Others aren't. It's your call, obviously, and that's something that computer bulletin board friends can't answer.) Doc
Comprende. You may be able to do it without her, if you have the documentation and/or a different witness. Good luck!
LOL! Doc, you are amazing. You describe my family so well. Yes, the family dynamics are mind boggling, and a court scene with the characters in my family would surely make a good movie. Somehow, this car problem has triangulated me into the sick family web...the one that I try to stay as far way from as possible. Step-jerk got me at a weak moment...and it was my mother's idea, she insisted, that he sign the lease agreement for me. She wanted to PROVE to me that she had fianally married a decent man. This is her third marriage. I new better, but I needed a car!!!!! Sh*t! It is a lifetime process getting out of this mess. Sometimes, it seems like the only answer is to cut ALL ties with ALL the players...but I can't let go of my mom. But she's the center of the dysfunction when you get down to the bottom line Calmest_LA
You are a wise person and your mom is lucky to have you thinking so clearly. I wouldn't get her involved, either - because I *know* the kind of man you're describing. And he WOULD make her pay if she got involved in this conflict. If you're going to take him on in court or otherwise - then take him on without her help. He may still try to take it out on her in some way - but if that happens, it won't be because you *asked* her to put herself in harm's way, and your conscience will rest easier. And, if he does take it out on her unfairly (but is abuse ever fair?), eventually *she* will need to take a hard look at her own reasons for staying in that abusive environment and then *she'll* have to take responsibility for letting him treat her that way. But don't ask her to put herself in a position to be abused. This is not a conflict about a car. It is a reminder of who is the unequivocal BOSS in this triangle - and he will try to make you and her realize clearly (by any means necessary) that it is HIM - if you all keep going after whatever carrot (the car, in your case) he's putting in front of your faces. As I said before, "some things ain't worth having to deal with a (violent) fool". That's why I suggest: 1. Make sure that you are in no way legally responsible for the car. 2. Cut your losses and deliver the car to his doorstep. 3. Take $1000 and a smart friend and head to the dealership. If you're bright enough to post on this forum (and you are) - you are bright enough to learn how to negotiate a fair deal at a dealership once you do the research on car buying. Just take someone with you who's done it before. 4. Get your mom in a new home (if she'll go). But if you take him to small claims and have your cancelled checks/ written correspondence in order - it is quite possible IF you can stand the family heat - to have the court give him an injunction to turn over the VW lease paperwork and give you the title to the car if it is paid off. Whatever you do, I wish you the best. For you and your mom.
If the guy is violent per marci's description, then certainly don't involve your mom. My dad was (and is) a ridiculous, borderline, mean-spirited, nasty, disagreeable man who drove his son to such despair that he ended up getting so much out of psychotherapy that he eventually went to school and became a shrink himself. It was either that or exit this world -- the guy could inspire such self-hatred it was amazing. However, he wasn't a violent man (thank goodness). That would have introduced another wrinkle into the matter. Frankly, if your stepfather is physically dangerous, you've got bigger problems to deal with than the disposition of that car -- namely, your mother's safety. Doc
How much was the Price of the car? Which model VW is it? How much did you put down? What were the terms? 300 dollars for 6.5 years might not be too far fetched considering a lease, if it was on a pricey VW. BUT... it does sound like his motives are bad, considering he is not cooperation with you. I hope it works out.
Radiohead, It's a VW Jetta GT, 97" If memory serves me correctly, the sale price was just under 18,000.00. No down payment. 9.5% financing for 48 months (lease). Here's where my memory fails...the balloon payment. I think it was around 4,000.00, give or take a few. I jsut can't remember. If I wanted to purchase the car instead of giving it back, then I could refinance the baloon payment. Once that was paid, then Step-jerk would transfer the title to me. This is why I am thinking that he's built in a little padding into this 30 month term for the balloon payment. 300.00 x 30 months is $9,000.00! I think this is about $2,500.00 more than what I should owe...and, I have accounted for the interest. Here's another interesting fact. My mother told me that he has finally decided to buy a new truck. He doesn't buy anything unless someone else pays for it...literally. She was as shocked as I was. So a *light* went on in my head...I figured I could be the one paying for the down payment on his new truck. As long as I can't get the exact figures that I owe on the VW, then he could very well swindle me out of an extra $2,500.00! I really think this is what he's probably doing, because he is doing everything in his power to keep me from getting the exact figures owed on the VW. And he would NOT buy a new truck unless he was given the money. Calmest_LA
Yeah, the fact that he is not being forthcoming with the terms suggests that he is being dishonest! On a lighter note, how do you like your Jetta? I am on my third, I love them...
DOC, I feel for you. I'm sorry to hear about how horrible your dad was toward you, and I'm glad you were strong enough to rise above it. You're using your experience to help others...that's terrific MARCI, Thanks for your prayers and concern for my mom and me. I appreciate it, really. Calmest_LA
Radiohead, I love my Jetta GT! It's the best car I've ever had. I've owned more expensive cars before, but they were fluff and pomp...always in the shop, American-made Tonka toys. I have NEVER had any kind of engine problem (knock on wood) with my VW, and it gets excellent gas mileage. I think I'm getting somewhere between 35-40 miles per gallon. Even when my little red light pops on, my VW keeps on going, and going, and going! One day, I might keep driving just to see how far I can go on empty, lol. The suspension is tight, no bounce...great for the roads where I live. I would like to get the Passat next...in black Calmest_LA
I tried to stay out of this discussion for I see it as a touchy subject. I agree with Doc's advice in terms of getting the mother involved. Also, i have to say that this would stand up in court as an oral agreement, providing that you are able to show proof that he had something to gain from the exchange. According to you, you claim that he gained the trust and respect of your mother and your family for this deed. If you are able to prove this, then you may have a case. As some one stated earlier, if you listed the account number of the auto lease on the check, than this may be sufficient. It depends on your state. This is a terrible situation. Another question: How is his financial situation? If he is hurting for money and values his credit rating, he may be willing to compromise with you. But legal the car is his based on the original contract alone. As Marci stated earlier, see if you can find a car that is more suitable to your credit score and financial status. This will eliminate your problem with the step father, thus allowing him to incurr the adittional debt.
More Answers to Questions Being Asked... I still have his hand written letter where he writes that I should continue to pay the $300.00 for an additional 30 months to cover the financing of the balloon payment. I have always written *car note* on the memo line of my checks. I make the checks payable directly to him and have been using a bill pay service as well as keeping all of my bank statements showing the $300.00 payment deductions from my account. Here's how I see it. When we made the oral agreement that he will use his credit to help me get a car, as long as I paid the note, then he became my creditor. Volkswagon is his creditor, and he is mine. Volkswagon will put him on title when car is paid in full; he will transfer it over to me when I have paid him in full. Thus, I think he became my creditor when he agreed to transfer the title to me if I made the payments. I think the FDCRA should apply to him! Is this just wishful thinking? Silly? If he says that I owe him $9,000.00, then I say prove it! Of course, I am not disputing that I owe the money. I want to pay him. I just don't want to pay him more than I'm obligated to pay, and I have reason to believe that he's padding the 30 additional months, so that I will be unknowingly financing the down payment on his new truck. I just want the documentation of my debt and copies of the original/refinancing agreement for my records. It's a reasonable request. I want exact figures! But the more difficult he makes it the more suspicious I get. Calmest_LA
Using the amortization calculator that George posted yesterday, http://www.loanbright.com/edirectlending/calc_amortization.html it appears that your stepfather may not be too off base with his calculations (although he should provide you the documents you requested). According to the calculator, an $18,000 loan, made at 9.5% interest for a 72 month period would carry a $294.20 monthly payment. In your case, if you were to treat your lease + your refinanced baloon period as the total payment period (48 months + 30 months), you would be on a 78 month payment plan. If he refinanced the balloon payment at a higher APR, or if the purchase price was slightly higher than you remember, your $300/month payment might take you into 78 months of payments, as he has demanded of you. Because of your low monthly payment, add $6,500 + in total interest payments to your $18,000 purchase price. Perhaps he's being honest in his payment length demand to you, but he's trying to push your buttons . . . possibly to get you to do what some people have advised you to do, namely, to give up the car to him.
RWB, I appreciate you calculating this for me. I would LOVE for this to be the case...that he's not trying to pull a fast one over on me. Your calculations certainly give me hope. But what I can't get past at this point is why he won't provide me with the documentation...copies of the contract...access to account info...copy of the refinance agreement. It doesn't make any sense. Any one of these items would be sufficient enough for me. It makes me think he's hiding something. But as you pointed out, he could just be trying to push my buttons, hoping that I will just get sick of it and give him a free car! I wouldn't put that one past him either. I can see him doing something like that. Calmest_LA
RWB has a good point, but if the step father has nothing to hide, or be worried about for that matter, he would gladly furnish the documents Calmest is asking for.
If I were you, I'd march my hiney down to the VW dealer. Explain the situation - maybe someone in their credit department could run some figures for you and give you a ballpark answer. Since it's not in your name they obviously can't tell you the exact figures, but the answer you get might be enough to ease your mind. Just from what I've rough figured, $300/month x 78 months is $23,400. Seems like an average total price-after-all-payments amount for a car. Ya sure he had good credit? If his credit wasn't excellent he wouldn't have gotten the best interest rate, which may have resulted in you paying more. I've never leased a car - my husband has always said when you lease and then buy it you land up paying more for the car than you would have paid just buying it outright... of course my dh never leased a car so he could be full of it too <g>. Anyway, going down to the VW dealer won't cost you anything but a little bit of time. Ozzy.
I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. The man sounds likes a bratty control-freak. I noticed that someone ran the numbers for a loan at ~9.5% apr and $18000 and the payments were around $300, give or take about $5. That is what I was going to suggest you do. I also thought of something--it sounds like he is being truthful with you, but not doing it with much class or decency. He should have imemdiately shared with you the new refinancing documents and said "this is what they are asking for." IMO, it sounds like he's saying "here, do this because I say so." That's a crummy way to communicate. I think, too, it's a power play--he knows you want to see the information and has you in his grasps by not cooperating. It's a type of passive-agressive tactic--my husband's ex-wife does this and it's annoying and rude: I think he (and the ex-wife) get some sort ofthrill by seeing you (us) beg a bit. I wish you the best of luck. Another thought...and I am sneaky and persistent, btw!!!--have you tried calling VW Credit and asking point-blank about this? Obviously, they can't give you specifics about him, like his ssn or address or anything, but try calling and explaining the situation like you did to us. A lot of time, disclosure laws aren't broken if YOU provide the info--that "I understand the APR is XX and the payment is XX; can you verify this?" They can then do so, because they haven't told you anything. And if a rep refuses, ask for a supervisor and explain your plight. You'd be surprised at what you can find out. (they can ususally look things up by a name if you don't have the account #) Good luck with all this--I know it stinks.
