My Bk is from '97 and I have suffered the consequenses but I am also doing OK 5 years later. A friend just told me that I really screwed up by not getting a TP ID# with my mother in laws address and starting a new credit file. She did it 3 years ago as soon as her BK was discharged and has AMEX Blue, AMEX Gold etc. She says to forget the possible gray line of immorality here. She simply has 2 files and keeps her credit under control. In 7 years, she will cancel the number 2 accounts related to the TP ID#. Her file will die in 10 years after that. The wife and I feel like fools. But then we didn't know. It's too late for us now as we have established our credit again, but have any of you used this tactic? How did it work for you after BK.
Number one, using a fake SS number is against the law. Second, you want to have wages recorded against your correct social security number so you get the most ss benefits when you retire. Tax payer ID: See this "All F-1 and J-1 visa holders, and their dependents are required to file tax forms each year, whether or not they earned any income! When completing the tax forms, you are required to indicate your US social security number. However, many individuals in F-2 status and other non-immigrant statuses are not eligible for Social Security Numbers. So, the Internal Revenue Service has created the Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) for individuals who need such a number for tax or banking purposes but cannot apply for a social security number." http://isss.binghamton.edu/taxes/idnumber.html As Beretta used to say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."
Committing fraud is not a good way to re establish credit. It seems alot of people utilizing this board seem to think certain acts are not fraudulent. The recent fiasco with people removing legitimate inquires is one example. When you go about removing or adding items to your credit report when you have no legitimate reason-wanting to raise your score for example is not a good reason Getting caught is not a pleasant result. Believe me, people from all CRAs monitor many of these boards to glean the way people are currently trying to "beat the system" PLEASE TAKE THIS FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH. I HAVE BEEN AROUND A LOOONG TIME. I AM NOT POINTING TO ANY INDIVIDUAL, JUST MY EXPERIENCE. H
This link is directly from the FTC's website. File segregation, regardless of morality issues, is ILLEGAL. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/creditid.htm
BigH, WHAT is illegal or fraudulent or immoral even about disputing inquiries with a credit bureau? Sassy
It is too late for us to be concerned with Taxpayer ID# used for credit restoration. We are so far along now that why bother. But what if a person files Bk. Then opens a small business using the ID #. The credit he or she builds under the ID # would be legitimate. Our friend did this and has Citibank and the AMEX cards I mentioned. So she has 2 files. Where she works, her social security contributions are recorded. But when she applies for new credit she uses the Taxpayer ID #. I agree that this is not honest in the strictest sense, but is it really fraud? I don't think so. Another friend owns a restauant and has an ID #. He also has his own ss #. He has 2 sets of credit. The only difference is that he has never had a BK. Shoot, Cap 1 just gave him an unsecured $30,000 platinum card on the restaurant at 9.9%. His home, cars and other credit are under the ss #.
King... Did you even follow the link I posted? It's fraud because when you fill out a credit app, it asks for SSN. Putting a tax ID there is fraud. Yes, opening a small business is legitimate BUT until you establish business credit, creditors will use your personal credit anyway. Like I said, it is illegal.
1*There is nothing Legit.about inquires.They are only a tool to lower the results of the already fraud called FICO. 2*Do away with the shell game called scoring -Mean while I will do what ever it takes to fight off the con men. 3*Being found out by a crook usually isn't to pleasant. It's not a system to beat-It's a fleece to conquer!
Disputing inquires that are made fraudulently against you is 100% legal and by all means do it. However, some people will dispute inquires after applying for credit because they were either denied or they did not like their assigned credit limit. That my friend is Fraud. H
Fraud is illegal. Disputing inquiries that cannot be proven legitimate are not. How do you see that as fraud? Is there a law somewhere that says that it is illegal to dispute unverifiable info on one's credit report?
With all due respect to everyone's opinion, I have been checking out the file separation idea some more. I read tmitchell's link but I think that if someone is newly Bk'd, they may be better off to establish a second file. The only way you can really get tripped up is if you are dumm enough not to pay your bills and someone finds out that you have 2 files. If this were 5 years ago, I would get the 2nd files for the wife and me and start all over. Then cancel the cards on the 2nd file in 10 years and let the file die. When you think about all the people entering the credit world each year such as young people, housewives, immigrants, small business owners: the chances that you are going to any problem with that 2nd file are beyond low. they are non existant, unless you don't pay your bills. Do Shaklee sales people have a second file for example. I'll bet a lot of them do.
King, I've heard a some people say that an EIN is the way to go, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole! First off, you have to legitimately operate a business for it to be legal. Secondly, as another poster pointed out...you would have to establish credit with the EIN (which usually means subprime to start with anyway). If you try to use it as your SSN and apply for credit, you will be declined because you have no credit history. I think Amex asks on their business applications for both the EIN and a SSN. Other applications as for a personal guaranty so an actual person is on the hook and not just an entity. It looks odd if a 34 year old has no credit file at all and suddenly is applying for credit all over the place. Also, while I'm sure plenty might get away with this, some also get caught and the penalties are stiff. I know they have checks in place to try to spot this sort of thing. Not me...no way, no how. On top of all of that...it took less time for me to come here to creditnet and spend six months correcting the "errors" than it would have if I'd tried to establish a whole new credit file. L
King One more time. File segregation is illegal. "HOLD UP THERE BUCKAROO! FTC says a New ID Is A Bad Idea and that's putting it mildly. "It is a federal crime to misrepresent your Social Security number. It also is a federal crime to obtain an EIN from the IRS under false pretenses. Further, you could be charged with mail or wire fraud if you use the mail or the telephone to apply for credit and provide false information. Worse yet, file segregation likely would constitute civil fraud under many state laws." See: http://credit.about.com/library/weekly/aa092299b.htm?iam=metacrawl_1&terms=+"file+segregation" Tittle 18 CH 63 United States Code 1342 Mail Fraud Fictitious name or address See http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1342.html "Whoever, for the purpose of conducting, promoting, or carrying on by means of the Postal Service, any scheme or device mentioned in section 1341 of this title or any other unlawful business, uses or assumes, or requests to be addressed by, any fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address or name other than his own proper name, or takes or receives from any post office or authorized depository of mail matter, any letter, postal card, package, or other mail matter addressed to any such fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address, or name other than his own proper name, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both" and "Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Clarifying SSN versus EIN This subject resurfaces on a regular basis and there is always the same confusion. In this day of automation, it is foolish to try to reinvent yourself with another financial identify by trying to use a business tax ID in place of your own social security number. Ultimately, it will catch up with you and you may face criminal charges. With the EIN, what individuals do is form a business organization and - then establish credit in the name of the business. That in itself is NOT fraudulent - if a potential creditor does not ask for a personal guarantor, and thus a SSN. Most potential creditors, however, ask for a social security number for the personal guarantor if a business does not have established accounts listed with Dun & Bradstreet, or business references to contact for payment history information. Using an EIN in lieu of your assigned SSN is asking for trouble because you are violating federal law. Most credit bureaus have checkpoints that identify a EIN for potential creditors. There was a Wall Street Journal article last week indicating that Atty. General Ashcroft is cracking down on identify theft and identity fraud. With all the checkpoints and relational databases, it is foolish to risk it.
Re: Clarifying SSN versus EIN King, if you want to use file segregation - go ahead. Nobody here is gonna stop you. you asked if it was illegal and we answered you - yes, it is illegal. There's no way to argue your point. Would it benefit someone to do this as long as they didn't get caught? Absolutely. But the fact remains - it's illegal.
I guess I'm crazy, but it seems to me that getting a taxpayer ID is almost like cutting in line to avoid the consequences of a bankruptcy. My bankruptcy was discharged on 3/12/02. So far I've managed to get a car loan from Ford for 60 months at 2.9%, a Target Visa and I was recently approved for a unsolicited and unsecured Orchard MasterCard. I had read about all the ways I could "start" over fresh and get credit galore. I even read PsychDoc's post on how to get inquiries deleted. However I figured I had no business with a wallet full of credit cards especially after bankruptcy and I knew every one of the inquiries on my credit reports were valid ones. They may have lowered my scores, but I was going to have to accept the consequences of them and live with them for the next two years. Basically if you have bad credit or you had to file bankruptcy, get over it, accept the consequences and move on. Dispute FALSE information, make wise credit decisions to rebuild your credit history and avoid scams like the plague. Your efforts will pay off and credit offers will start landing in your mailbox. Cynthia
I think Big H works for one of the CRAs. So which is it, H...Equifax, Transunion or Experian? Surely you don't believe the propaganda they are feeding you. Right?
How come we are so quick to accuse? Big H gave his opinion, I for one agree with him. There is a thin line between what is legal and illegal (with alot of gray area in between). If someone is to give there opinion on something feel free to disagree, but keep the name calling and accusations to a minimum - it doesn't do any of us any good. Dani AKA The President of TU
