Any thoughts regarding what if anything is done with submitted W2s? (to lenders, not uncle sam). As a practical matter is there any downside to (purely hypothetically) submitting an incorrect one?
Ok, I'm a bit confused with this question..if someone were to, say, make up a W-2 and give it to a lender as proof of income, what happens with it? Is that what you are asking? If so, my gut feeling is that is goes into your official record of the loan and, should any problems arise, it might be "checked into." If they were to find out it was not "real," then it could be used against you in a legal action. Also, I know sometimes mortgage lenders run a loan through a second check after the mortgage has been approved. I think my daughter's mortgage said that they could recheck anything up to a year or something like that. If they did that, it might be detected. But,then, I could have misunderstood your question completely.
You understood. I agree with everything you have said. It would certainly be a very bad idea for a mortgage. But how about a CC?
Well, I assume you are taking the same risk. My feeling is that they would go to those items at the first sign of trouble and then use them against you if they needed them. I just don't think it's a wise idea that I'd avoid if I could!
Hypothetically speaking, if you can't do the time - don't do the crime. I suppose some might even go so far as to call it "monumentally ^2 stupidity". However, I'll be looking for a softer definition Saar
I agree with NanaC. When I had my ch 7 meeting with creditors, one of the creditors showed up and asked me questions about my income. She specifically geared her questions towards the income stated on the credit application and my reported income in the bk papers. Both my husband and I lost our jobs due to company closing after I had requested the loan. She was definitely inferring that I fraudulently stated my income on the application.
saar, truly excellent! Though I am truly mortified to be occupying space in your long term memory. I agree with all that's been said. Though I don't think ANYBODY is going to be bk7'ing in the future. Technically if you send this to a bank there are potentially even worse repercussions. That said, I don't (yet) see *any* difference between misrepresenting one's income (not that any CN'rs would ever think of doing such a thing!) and the W2. As a practical matter anything else?
Hold on...In one case you are actually creating a fraudulent document (used for federal purposes, I might add) for the purpose of obtaining funds. That's a bit different, IMHO, than being off a bit on an entry on the application. Just my 2 cents.
NEVER do it on a mortage. Your reported income is submitted to the IRS. If it doesn't match, you've either committed bank fraud (by lying on your application) or tax fraud (by not reporting all of your income). Either way, it's fraud and you're going to have some explaining to do.
I agree to never do it on a mortgage. I agree that its some sort of federal fraud crime (though I forget the precise one that's used). I've do remember having seen actual federal prosecutions for fraudulently obtained mortgages. But I've never heard about income being reported to the IRS? Can you elaborate? Also, this does not really pertain to the submission of false documents per se. The mere act of misstating income (ie, anything more than just being "off a bit") is sufficient to trigger this category.
I mean, you estimate your income of 14, 670 and put $15,000. I'm confused by your questions...The W-2 information is also provided to the IRS. I somehow got the impression that you were suggesting a scenario in which someone "created" a W-2 for CC proof of income that wasn't based on, well, the truth. Maybe I misunderstood??
You have understood, but this thread has taken a turn so it gets confusing. My question was about submitting "not real" W2s -- not one that was actually submitted to the IRS. One that our hypothetical tourist from pluto just made up. The objections stated by you and others, completely accurate, suggested potential trouble which I agreed with. But my point was to wonder what the actual difference was between this and the act of misstating income. I don't consider 24,760 to 25,000 to be misstating income. However I have read many stories of people really misstating income (not on CN, of course!) -- $24,760 to $85,000. Or whatever. My question is not whether that act is wrong. I was curious about the distinctino between that act and sending forms. Particularly in the frankly more innocuous CC setting. AustinGuy's point about a mortgage applies equally to misstated income. Candidly, its not even so much the amount of the overstatement that matters as the "materialness" ... people increase the amount of income they state to qualify under preset federal ratios. Just the act of misstatement alone is enough to trigger very serious repercussions. My question to him was simply about the claim that these amounts were reported to the IRS. Austinguy's point ironically sort of brings us back to my real CC-setting question in a very backwards manner....I'm wondering what is done/actually happens to/with these forms.
Thanks for explaining. (Got a chuckle out of the "Pluto" comment, BTW) Then, I'll just stick to my original thinking on this, then. An extreme difference in stated income is a serious concern, too, IMHO. However, W-2's are an entirely different manner (whether used for mortgage or any other type of credit). The government is provided a copy of them by employers (or the information is reported through electronic sources to the IRS) and they can be verified or proven false fairly easily.
Let's change the question a tad. Let's assume you never even used the card you obtained -- so there's no proof of income at bk, etc problems. Now what? What is done with the forms?
OK. We were through something SOMEWHAT similar with our previous mortgage. My husband is employed in a position that he does not work in all of December, Jan and half of Feb. When the mortgage broker was filing out the application HE figured my husbands gross from the pay stubs we had given him. We "forgot" to tell him that part and our yearly earnings went up 12,500 or so (not really that much I guess because he collects unemployment during that time). However, we didn't lie, or sign anything confirming this info. We had no problems. I will say though that there is a REASON that you are approved for any given amount on a mortgage. If you are planning on lying about your income by a large amount you will be putting YOURSELF in foreclosure.
They only want "STATED" income so they can "SEE" if you can pay for the house... ...but then they look at your credit report to "SEE" how you drive, or how long your gonna' live!!!
what would happen if you understated income? I did this recently. I didnt include overtime cuz I didnt want to rely on it. but it is about 8k per year. also left 401k off in assets cuz i couldn't find the statement. is this "lying"?? coral
