Well I was stunned this morning...I sent a CCRR only yesterday (granted city is only 30 miles away or so and the post office said one day, i assumed Monday) and I got a call today from a pretty upset collection agency. They told me I was being mean. Here is the second letter I sent: To Whom It May Concern: This letter is being sent in order to notify your offices that you are in direct and willful violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. On July 13, 2002, I sent a letter to your offices. In that letter I stated, clearly, that I would require complete validation of this alleged debt that you claim to have collected. When I paid you, I relied upon the belief that you would do the honorable thing and remove the derogatory comments from my credit bureau files as you promised me everything would be taken care of if I paid this alleged debt. I am quite confident that both you and a court of law will agree that such is a perfectly reasonable assumption for an average debtor to make. So I paid you the fifty dollars to take care of the situation. In response to my letter dated July 13, 2002, I received a letter stating that this account was mine and you also sent a computer print screen of your system, an itemized list of services rendered, and my signature on a hospital dismissal form stating that I understood the directions to tend to my injury. This is not considered legal validation. You have yet to provide me with competent evidence that I owed this alleged debt to you or Bloomington Hospital. You have not complied with the courtsâ?? ruling in the case of Spears vs. Brennan wherein the Honorable Kenneth Johnson determined what would be considered legal and ample validation of a debt (Case No. 49A02-0003-CV-169. Your offices have failed to provide that to me in my request for validation of this alleged debt. Your offices have also reported this account to all Credit Reporting Repository during the legal validation period without marking it as being disputed by the customer which makes you in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Due to the blatant and willful violations of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act, I am currently in the process of filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission and the State Attorney Generalâ??s Office. If you fail to validate and continue to report, it will result in my consideration of taking legal action against Collection Associates for violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, for Defamation Of Character and for Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud. You must fill out the Collection Agency Declaration (attached) and return it, along with copies of all requested documentation, within 5 days of your receipt of this letter He stated that he is very knowledgable in the law and this is what they consider proper violation and I was just trying to get it off my report with was unethical any anyone can go onto the web and try this. I said I just wanted to find out what the $50 is for because I should have paid my deductible upon admission and my insurance pay the rest. He said he didnt have to fill out the form and I said correct but you have to prove I owed this debt. He said he did, I said if you would please look at the case I quoted and a computer print out is not valid and my signature for dismissal was not proof of debt. He says you were there. I said yes I was, I hurt my knee, I didnt need a pee test. I also stated that I didnt recognize the insurance company and asked what the $50 was for. He couldnt answer. He goes it was paid and I said yes I paid it because I was tired of fighting it that I didnt know any better. He said I owed it and asked if I was accusing Bloomington hospital of being unethical. I once again stated i was not accusing anyone of anything I just wanted to make sure that I truely owed this debt. He said we can go to court if I wanted to pursue this and he would countersue for frivous lawsuit to pay his laywers that he does this everyday. He brought up that he was upset I was accusing him of violating laws and clumpede him with all the other "bad" collection agencie. I thanked him for not being one of the bad agencies and I didnt like being clumped together with all the deadbeat people. I stated I was sorry but he was in violation because he did not place this in dispute with the CRA, he stated he did and he cant help what the CRA does. I said fine, send me proof you did place in-dispute and he said he couldnt as it was sent electronically but he would be happy to do it now manually. I said too late. Sorry so long.. So did I mess up, did I do ok and what do i now?? I do have a case even if it is for only one violation?? Do I go ahead and file?? I hate feeling like a newbie!!!!!
I think you did very well. He may be able to countersue you and might win, BUT I think it would be a slim chance of him winning. This is what should be expected of him when he is in this type of business, so a judge might say tough deal with it. It may be one violation but then there are damages. So lets say it's $1K violation but you apply for an increase for one of your existing cards for $4K, that's a $5K lawsuit. The only problem is if you have any other derogs that would prevent you from getting a CL increase, see where I am going. If this is your last derog then I say go for the $5K, if not just go for the violations, BTW I see 1 FCRA violation (furnishers of info section) and 1 FDCPA violation (putting account into dispute). Make sure you are still within the SOL to sue, I believe it's 1 or 2 years from date paid. Good luck
Good job Jen, You didn't deny being there, that was smart. He's obviously fearfull. You also indicated that the ONLY reason you paid it was because it wasn't worth your time to deal with it otherwise, not because you owed it. That was smart too. Did you include a C&D in any of your letters? Do you have this on tape? Did you send back these aleged validation documents as unacceptable? Also, he does have a responsibility to show that you paid the right person. You need some sort of proof that the hospital assigned this debt to that particular agency. Good job, stick to your guns, he's on the run.
I think you did great!! This is fantastic! Keep after him, he is bluffing you. Don't back down, try using the approach you started with this comment. Negotiate! Sweet-talk and then threaten, threaten and then sweet-talk. Sounds like you maybe have some natural ability, hehe.
Thank you so very much for the encouragement cause I know I was more scared than he was lol I was scared cause I know I had owed it and I paid it. I was fighting with the insurance. I know what it was for but he doesnt. So the proof of burden really does fall on him. So what is the next step exactly....follow through with my threat of lawsuit?? I know they will show up cause they are too close. I gave him 5 days to respond (should have given him 15 cause I dont know if I am ready for this...only my first month lol) and I know he received it today which would be Wedish or prolong to friday..... guess I need to start searching for lawsuit experiences now and flood my already overwhelmed mind....who would have thought there was so much to credit...to only know this now instead of my early 20's. This should be a required course in high school!! Would someone with experience be willing to "hold my hand to give me the warm and fuzzies" as I wade through this?? I would love to scan the documentation just to make sure I have a case. ps something that bothers me and I am unclear of...lets say what if during the 30 days they do place account in dispute via tape, electronic, whatever and the CRA doesnt get it posted. I know it is taking >30-45 days to correct my inaccuracies even with me faxing proof from OC. So would the CA get the same consideration?? Do I have them on more than one violation besides this weak "in dispute" one?? I must have missed the "furnishers of information" part??!!?? I paid this 12/99 so I may be sol?? And unfortunately this is not my only derog as I am just beginning but I have been decline many many times and I pay higher interest on my car and cc's.
Section 623 of the FCRA: (a) Duty of furnishers of information to provide accurate information. **the CA** (2) Duty to correct and update information. A person who (A) regularly and in the ordinary course of business furnishes information to one or more consumer reporting agencies about the person's transactions or experiences with any consumer; 3) Duty to provide notice of dispute. If the completeness or accuracy of any information furnished by any person to any consumer reporting agency is disputed to such person by a consumer, the person may not furnish the information to any consumer reporting agency without notice that such information is disputed by the consumer. ***DID THE CA MARK IT AS CLOSED??*** (4) Duty to provide notice of closed accounts. A person who regularly and in the ordinary course of business furnishes information to a consumer reporting agency regarding a consumer who has a credit account with that person shall notify the agency of the voluntary closure of the account by the consumer, in information regularly furnished for the period in which the account is closed. ***I cant find the part about the SOL, but I think it is 2 years from date paid, but i would think whatever date they updated your credit reports to show as paid MAY extend the SOL??? Not sure though. If the CA didn't raise that qquestion with you he may not know about the SOL. What state are you in? Check your states law regarding CA's. Most states have provisions that back up the consumer where the FDCPA fails to.
I live in Indiana... will do some more research.. Thanks again for the encouragement I feel ALOT better. It is my luck that my first one goes this far lol
This is the part I love: "He stated that he is very knowledgable in the law and this is what they consider proper violation..." It doesn't get ANY better than this. After all isn't "proper violation" exactly what we want from them? You gotta love these guys!
thanks for the laugh. When you said the CA said you were mean- hahaha. Is he actually implying they have feelings?
Jen! I'm a serious fan! Your letter now occupies a place of honor in my "credit_keep" subdirectory on the hard drive here, lol. I sure hope you stick around this crazy neighborhood. Doc
I am honored doc...as I have looked up to you and your letters. Thank you so very much for that nutcase letter cause it has gotten me the deletions I have gotten so far. This ever so whiney person received that one first I was floored that he wanted to quabble over a $50 paid debt from 4 years ago He was telling me all about the integrety of the CRA's and how unethical it would be to delete and how people on the web are just trying to weasle out of their obligations... The your being mean had to be the highlight of the conversation...He was worse than my 10 yr old...I said no I am not, I am simplly trying to verify my debt..."no your not, your just mean". Gee court ought to be fun since I didnt even have my game face on at 9 am this morning and not once raised my voice He told me to keep talking as this had been a very educational conversation lol Think I hurt his ego by the way he did ask me what court that case came from...told him I thought Chicago....can anyone tell me??
I am honored doc...as I have looked up to you and your letters. Thank you so very much for that nutcase letter cause it has gotten me the deletions I have gotten so far. This ever so whiney person received that one first I was floored that he wanted to quabble over a $50 paid debt from 4 years ago He was telling me all about the integrety of the CRA's and how unethical it would be to delete and how people on the web are just trying to weasle out of their obligations... The your being mean had to be the highlight of the conversation...He was worse than my 10 yr old...I said no I am not, I am simplly trying to verify my debt..."no your not, your just mean". Gee court ought to be fun since I didnt even have my game face on at 9 am this morning and not once raised my voice He told me to keep talking as this had been a very educational conversation lol Think I hurt his ego by the way he did ask me what court that case came from...told him I thought Chicago....can anyone tell me??
I think your going to have to base your suit on the info they are currently supplying to the CRA's and their lack of not listing the account as in dispute. As far as them validating the debt I think you kinda burnt yourself by paying the debt before actually validating it. I beleive a judge will also see it this way, so I don't think you'll get far on the validation argument. You sound like you did good. I do have a feeling he's going to call your bluff and see if you'll actually sue. Here is what I do.....Find his fax number and fill out the acutal copy of the small claims suit you will file with the court. This will be as complete as it gets to filing when you fax it to him. Mark at the bottom in a large marker "COPY, to be filed with the courts on Aug XX, 2002" Fax him this and he will call and be a different kinda person. See if that works! Take your time on the suit and make sure everything is correct and spelled properly. It really shakes them up if you already have their registered agent's name and address as well as their company listed under the Defendant section. I have settled many possible lawsuits this way!! You just need to get it in the right person's hands. Good Luck! Tac
They told me I was being mean. Jenasea9 =================================== Did you tell them it's because they made you that way? L.B.59
loL I should have but then I would be playing his same childish game I just told him I was not, that I was only exercising my legal rights and I was informing him of his I do know one thing, I dont think I want any more phone conversations BTW, I paid that account 4 years ago not knowing anything about credit or my rights To only know then what I know now I wouldnt have all this BS on my reports.
I was always told that ignorance is no excuse. Guess it don't work that way in the credit industry. They think consumers are ignorant so that ignorance is their excuse for screwing the consumers character.
In my readings, this is how I intially thought things were supposed to be but now that I am trying to write up the small claims case I am now confused: Paid Collection Still on report, CA must be able to prove debt at anytime, if cant they cant report unverified information. I already paid, so therefore they must have sent me the notice??? How does one dispute that one?? The have 2 of my addresses mixed. One apartment complex with the apartment # of the other one..... Dont know what my next step should be...thinking about second letter disputing the validity of the validation they sent plus intent to sue. I only have them on one violation of not placing the item in dispute after recieving request of validation. But now I am confused on if they really do have to validate after the 30 days in rereading all the fcra and fair debt.... In relooking at the stuff he sent...the itemized paper has the oc fax stuff at the top, however in examining it, the OC information is a "stamp", in the same ink stuff their mini-miranda "stamp" is in?? WTH?? Any advice my brain hurts today...too much going on in life to be able to breathe...
