weird situation, please help!

They made a mistake which you were completely aware of. They may be 2% liable. You are 98%. I'm sorry, but if they chose to pursue this, I think it would be slam dunk on your intent to defraud. You had better do as suggested and speak to a lawyer. When they show up to get the car, what are you going to say then? You've been lying to them about the whereabouts of the car which goes to prove more intent. You would much better of being straight with them. Good luck, you're going to need it.

 

I am telling you, when they show up and can not find the car, they are going to hire a repo-guy and he is going to begin skiptracing to locate the vehicle. They will call you constantly asking where the car is. Drive by your house in the wee hours of the morning, etc... When the repo guy finally finds it, he is going to repo no matter where it is. If you tell TranSouth what you did they are going to freak. You will be responsible for the repo expenses as well.

The problem with keeping the loan up is that you also have a requirement under the original contract to insure the vehicle during the term of the contract. By failing to meet your terms under the contract, you give TranSouth the right to accelerate all payments, and demand the entire loan balance in full now. If you were to pay the entire loan right now, then your problem is solved. TranSouth's claim to the vehicle is gone, and you are done. If you don't abide by all the contract provisions then the loan becomes immediately payable in full. I think you will also find that there is a provision in the original sales contract that you will not encumber the vehicle with other liens or sell the vehicle etc...

TranSouth has absolutely no culpability in sending you the title. That does not constitute fraud or a criminal act. It's the same situation as if your employer accidentally EFT'd your account for $10,000 instead of $1,000 for you paycheck. You can't just keep the additional $9,000 and go out and spend it all. You have to return the extra money to your employer. In your case you should have either kept the title safe, or returned it to them.

The best thing to do, if you had available funds, would be to call TranSouth, find out the entire loan balance, and pay it immediately. Once this is done, they can no longer attempt reposession, because they no longer have an interest in the vehicle, and you are free and clear. Consider taking out a loan using the new car as collateral, using a credit cards, borrowing from a family member - anything to pay this loan off before they begin repo.

 

On the contrary, By making payments, she demonstrates that she knew she did not hold free title to the car. You cannot sell liened property without paying off the lien. The judge will ask her why she took the title, and used it as a trade in for another car when she knew that she did not own the vehicle outright, which is why she continues to make payments. I'm not here to judge you, so GOOD LUCK!

 

Good point, I know the way my insurance works- all I have to do to add a vehicle to my policy is call in and give them the VIN number and year and make of the car, color etc... They don't come out and inspect the car or anything like that. I don't know what they do in the background. I was thinking if she just got it on her policy, then she would be OK. Obviously, if she ever tried to file a claim, then the insurance company would want to see the car etc and she would be busted. The thing is, she could never file a claim, and hopefully she wouldn't - that would be fraud. As far as the state DMV pulling a red flag because the car is insured twice is a long shot in my opinion. The State DMV's probably do not communicate with the insurance companies directly. Ie they would not notify her insurance company that the car in question is insured by another motorist - what would be the states motivtion to do this?

I did have a friend who sold his car and did not purchase a new car as he was moving to New York, and figured he didn't need a car anymore. Upon learning that if he did decide to buy a car that his insurance rates would skyrocket because he did not maintain "continuous coverage", he simply kept his insuarnce on the car he sold open and continued paying it. That way, he figured, if he did decide to buy a new car in New York, he could prove he had continuous coverage.

I think now that her best route is to simply pay off the loan and be done with it.

I do not claim to be knowledgable about the ins and outs of insurance though. Maybe an insurance professional could comment on the insurance question.

 

I really feel for you, this is a fairly serious crime you have committed. I am not going to say anything bad to. Hell, I have had moments when an idea seemed brilliant, luckily I stopped myself in time. I think the only thing that would be of help to you in this situation is that you continued to make payments.

There is no getting around it, this is out and out fraud. They may have made a mistake in sending you the title but that certainly gave you no right to do what you did. I wouldn't worry about the civil suit at all, it will be criminal charges that get you. Thing of the ramifications of this, please. Whoever has this car now may end up getting it taken from them.

I am sorry this has happened to you, but to put any blame at all off on Transouth is not accepting responsibilty for what you have done. I would get myself an attorney asap, you are certainly going to need one. I hope you have a sympathetic judge. If you get an attorney now, perhaps they can make a deal with Transouth so you may avoid prosecution.

 

OK, this is my take on this whole thing. This is NOT a credit related situation. What you did was FRAUD., plain and simple. You knew exactly what you were doing. This is not a case where someone loses a job and falls behind on car payments. This was fraud and there may be no debtors prisons but there are plenty for people like this. Another thing that speaks a THOUSAND words about you is putting it (on purpose) in your husbands name. SHAME ON YOU.

Again, you knew what you were doing, and you need to face that. Responding to this post as "funny" does not sit well with me.

 

Please note that I am not brandishing you for commiting fraud. I am only apprising you of your situatoin. It is not mine to judge. I think concievably, TranSouth could obtain a new title for the vehicle from the DMV. They would simply have to prove to the DMV that they have a PMSI in the vehicle, then the DMV would issue them a new title. You could concievably not only wind up charged with fraud, but Grand Theft Auto as well which is a felony in most states. If you can not take out a loan to repay the balance owed TranSouth, one last option would be to call them and ask them to transfer the loan balance to the Olds. You would have to send them the title to the Olds and create a new contract transferring the loan from the Ford to the Olds. This would be solely at their option, and they may decline which would leave you holding the bag.

I am curious though, how you have an attorney if you are "broke". I went to see an attorney about a month ago and he charged $250 per hour with a $1000.00 retainer up front. Cost me $20 just to have a thirty minute conversation with him to determine if he would even take my case. Attorney's aren't cheap.

 

Ummmmm, I am an insurance professional.

 

Oops, sorry Breeze.

Could you explain how the insurance company would know whether or not you own the car when you add it to your policy. Do they check state registration databases, look into their magic crystal ball, or read the chicken bones? lol.

It would be interesting to know the inside scoop on their controls.

I know they do some checking if you file a claim, but what do they do when you add a vehicle to your policy?

 

Never pay an atty. to see if he will entertain your case, not even $20. lol


Desperate, just so you know I rather doubt that criminal charges will be forthcoming. But you WILL need a lawyer to work out a deal with the creditor. The law would become involved only if the creditor wants to. It's your atty's. job to make them not want to. Obviously you must act quickly.

They already know that if you're in jail they won't get a penny.

lol

 

I used a referral service - Finding attorney's in my area specializing in consumer law (FCRA, FDCPA) is not easy. There are thousands specializing in personal injury, but consumer attorney's are fairly rare. Infact, the referral service only listed the one guy I met with. I tried e-mailing Swzak, and never got a response back. Believe me, I wouldn't pay unless I had to...

 

I will keep my self righteous opinion to myself, but I believe this can be attributed to a very important lesson:

Don't buy a Ford.

Dani

 

Or GM for that matter. You can't go wrong with a Toyota...

 

I agree with your point here Butch. It is not likely that any criminal charges will be pressed, especially if she is willing to pay. But these are all real possibilities that should be considered, and drive home the point of how critical it is that she take action immediately. Further, I think it is strange that TranSouth is pursuing repossession when she is current on her loan. This indicates that they are looking to get the car back for whatever reason.

They should be obtaining insurance to cover the vehicle on her behalf and pushing the charges back to her. This used to be a relatively common practice when individuals failed to properly insure their vehicles, especially in the sub-prime markets. The dealer or financeer would obtain outrageously high insurance policies and charge the insurance premiums back to the buyer. The the buyer would then default, and they would be resposible for the loan balance and insurance and any incidental expenses. The dealer - usually a tote your note place would simply turn the cars over and resell them to the next poor slob and start the process all over again. A real scam.

 

You're right on Mitch.

 

You need to contact a lawyer immediatley. You've got to stop telling lies.

 

I understood it was illegal to obtain insurance on a car that was not titled to you. I wonder how whoever ended up with your car has it insured? just curious.

I, for one, wouldn't have had the kahunas to do what you did, desperate, though I understand that desperation in having already been bent over and taken it up the rear, twice for you.

No one was willing to do the right thing by you and your Ford lemons -- I'm impressed you tried to turn the tables and get the ball back into your court as a consumer.

How many of us have ever bought a car without getting screwed? How many of us have ever had a car financed without getting further screwed? How many of us have ever been able to get out of an auto contract once having realized the full extent of the screwing?

The fact is, car dealers are allowed to lie, they make their money lying, ultimately all that matters is what is on that piece of paper you signed, no matter who misrepresented what to whom. The dealers can in reality breach their contracts and have recourse -- we however cannot.

I applaud your efforts, desperate, to level the playing field and look out for yourself -- I'm impressed you are still making payments on the car as well. That said, the reality is that the levelling has consequences for you, and serious ones! My fellow netters have given you the benefit of their collective wisdom and sincere advice, spot on I say.

You are obviously intelligent and clever, if not shrewd ;-), that's not a bad thing in my book. In the scenario you've described, you will likely be accountable for your shrewdness whereas the dealer and manufactor faces no practical consequences.

Car dealers violate every consumer protection law there is to violate, when they figure out how to get around those they make up new ones -- they should do the right thing to begin with. They wouldn't have such a bad reputation and stories like yours wouldn't exist.

You've heard two wrongs don't make a right, yes? In your case, three wrongs don't make a right either. Unfortunately, it's more likely you will be the one bearing the burden. Like I said, I wouldn't have had the kahunas to do what you did, I'm not judging you, I do applaude your attempts to make a wrong right! Now, do the smart thing and see an attorney, one at least as clever and intelligent as you are. The fact is, you have too much to loose and you don't have a mega-bucks dealership or insurance company with dollars to throw at lawsuits!

A consumer advocate attorney should be able to argue that you were obtaining vigilante protection for your hard-earned money and big investment -- the right way, however, is to pursue those avenues via the consumer laws and legal system -- perhaps a jury would be sympathetic as well, we've all been in those taking it up the butt spots, especially where cars are concerned.

Watch what you say on message boards, you've definately incriminated yourself here, in my humble opinion -- the internet isn't truly anonymous; what we say and do usually does come back around to haunt us.

This board has QQ!

Good luck to you, desperate!

Sassy

 

I know this is sort of besides-the-point, but I just thought of something. Even if there was an option for her to re-insure the car, don't all financed cars require collision insurance which requires an inspection by the insurance company beforehand?

I know that I have insured free and clear junkers for liability insurance only by just calling up XYZ insurance and starting a policy, but when I insured my financed cars I had to have them inspected for pre-existing damage by the insurance company. I can't see how she could get around that even if re-insurance was an option.

Anyway, I can see where Desperate is coming from. I think that if I had been given a good chance to screw over my finance companies (Household and Americredit) I would go for it. I say turnabout is fair play. BUT, before you grab a too-good-to-be-true opportunity you have to check and double check to be sure that you won't be liable later.

Unfortunately, Desperate, I think that you acted much too quickly and left yourself wide open to civil & criminal penalties. I wish you luck with this since this mess is only going to get messier until you go to court.