Oops...Amending above post...I thought they were a one car family, which is tough! Two car family, easier, at least to get around. Maybe not to pay for. Still, car trouble is one of the most troublesome troubles. My one car is the plague and saviour of my life. I was actually looking at getting a new Focus ZX3, but now... BTW, is there anything to suggest that the Ford dealership dropped the ball in the midst of all these transactions? Filed paperwork that led to this snafu?It seems possible. -ingenue
You still don't get it. The fact that you had a title, that you knew was incorrect, made you figure out a way to get rid of the one car and get another. I am not trying to say you need to be convicted of fraud or anything like that. In fact, I even stood up for you in re: to the person that wanted to report your IP info. The fact that you figured out a way to get rid of a car with an incorrect title etc, is what makes it premeditated. Did the oc make a mistake? Yes. Did you get stuck with a Piece of s#%t? Appears that way. Could something else have been done that would have been the right way? Most likely. Ford should have done something to make this right with you, no question. But IMO, you just don't really see what you did wrong. You keep trying to pass the blame on to Transouth for sending the title. Wrong thinking.
Had the poster explained the problem to the lender perhaps they would have assisted the poster in getting a resolution with the car dealer and manufacturer. The method the poster used certainly blew that option didn't it??
Actually Desperate what you did WAS premeditated. You have stated that you KNEW it was a mistake for the company to send you the title. Therefore, you knew that you didn't have proper title to the vehicle. Now if you hadn't known that it was a mistake and really thought that you were supposed to get title, then it wouldn't be premeditated. Therefore, you had full knowledge that what you did was improper.
You guy's are debating morality. This entire thread was started on her legal problem, not her moral problem. She was wondering what the legal ramifications were not the moral ramifications. I think she is well aware of the moral situation. Why don't all of you let her deal with her God, preist, or coven leader - to deal with her guilt, and focus on the legal aspects - which if you are following through the entire thread are quite interesting. If you wan't to take the morale high ground, then never recommend to anyone to send a validation letter to a debt collector where they know they owe - just pay it because "it's the right thing to do", But we all know that is stupid advice.
Well, I'll tell you what. Being that this is a board for people to post opinions, that is what I've been doing. I am trying to explain to her the rights and wrongs, because, I honestly don't see where the poster has really acknowledged that. And if that is the case, she may do something equally dumb in the future which very well may bring serious consequences. I also don't think your comparison of a validation letter and a scheme of this magnitude are quite the same.
True, they are not the same, I was merely stating that if one wants to take the moral highground on this, or any other issue, we can go to the extreme. I.e validating debt that you know you owe is morally improper since you know you owe it. You shouldn't play games just pay what you owe. - Not, it is not fair that the CA's will continue to report the debt negatively even after one pays it. Although, what she did was wrong, I think she stated several times that she knew she had made a mistake, and was looking to protect herself from further exposure. Plus, she did continue to pay the loan, which shows her willingness to "do the right thing". She could have simply stopped paying altogether and hid out. I think ultimately she just wanted a car that works...lol - Is that so bad? I'd be pretty upset myself if I just financed a brand new car and it broke down within a month of the purchase date. Although I would never buy a Ford. Maybe a Ford truck, but not a car. And, I am by no means suggesting that you or any other poster should not post. If you find ethics and morality in business transactions an interesting topic, then post away. I will read those posts just as attentively... Peace
As I stated above, I think she stuck with a junker for a car. And, Ford should have done something to correct the situation. I would be upset also. I just think maybe she could have pursued it a little more with the correct people. Maybe this situation would never have occurred. I don't wish her to have any problems because of this. I just hope for her own sake, she's learned that is always an alternative to doing the "wrong" thing. She did continue to pay, which was the right thing to do. That probably is what will save her from any further problems with the lender. What bothered me was she kept going back to the fact that they sent her the title so they had responsiblity in this. I think I figured out why this bugs me so much. My ex-wifes brother in law always pulled crap like this and we were constantly getting people calling and showing up looking for him as he gave MY address as his. A real gem of a person. Ok. I'm off the soapbox and done with this. LOL
LOL - We have one of those too. It is her brother and he is jail right now for who knows what. Probably has to do with not paying his child support. I know how you feel...
Somebody once said; It's not that hard doing the right thing. The hard part is figuring out what the right thing is. But once one knows what the right thing is, it's hard NOT to do it. (Author Unknown) I think this is exactly where Desperate is and in my opinion she's not a bad person. She just screwed up, that's all. I came to this conclusion immediately upon her first post. One needs to be an excellent judge of character in my business. She sounds fairly young.
Thanks for the replies, FYI I am 32 years old. I admit I made a mistake in doing what I did. I was bitter with the hole situation when the newer car started acting up and the way it did. I was blown off at the dealership and ford like I was previously for the last 6 months when I told them about the newer car's problems. I would advise anyone who has never been through the process to go out and buy a new car and find out it is a total lemon. Then try and get your money back or a new car! You will certianly see if the dealership and car maker are loyal to their customers at that point. I got to the point of almost taking out a full page ad for a day in the paper to relate my experience with this dealership and ford. Luckily I didn't have to. Again I didn't do anything premeditated to try and screw anyone. I made a bad judgement call and tried to make light of a bad situation. In the end TranSouth will ending getting their money on this bad judgement call. I'm sure they will not go bankrupt over this incident. Desperate
Desperate, Next time you talk to your atty, you might ask about the possiblity of suing Ford and the dealership for their failure to backup their product. It was a brand new car and obviously had a warranty?. I would think their neglectful handling of this situation might warrant you some damages. Then you can use that to pay off the loan.
LKH, Thank you for the advice, my attorney has already mentioned something to that effect. Obviously he will have to determine the extent of what we can do. Thanks again! Desperate
I don't get it. You think that it is OK to sue Ford, but it is not OK for the people that you frauded to sue you? This whole thread makes me sick. No wonder the world is the way that it is. I am not saying that it was OK for Ford to give you a lemon,. Yes, they should have taken care of the problem. Maybe you were just to busy working on your little scam to let them try to fix this. I hope that you do have to step up and do the time for you crime, literally. I am not saying that any of you have to agree with me here. This is a free country and she asked for our opinions, mine is that she is a crook.
Dear Desperate, I have tried to pretty much stay out of this, but here goes, and I may not make any friends, but it's TRUTH TIME. If you had gotten away with this, nothing would ever have been mentioned. If anyone here recieved a title to a car that they didn't own, what would they have done? Has anyone here NEVER walked into a parking lot with their buggy of groceries and found something underneath that the cashier or you did not see or you forgot? Did everyone run back in with that item and stand in line for another 20 minutes to pay for it?. Although a case of pop or a bag of dog food may not be the same thing money-wise, in God's eyes, IT IS NO DIFFERENT.
As a matter of fact it is funny that you should mention that. Yesterday I went to Target and got some school supplies for my daughter. After leaving the store and loading the car I saw that I did not pay for a pack of 59 cent crayons. You know what I did? I went back into the store and paid for them. Yes it look a few minutes out of my time, but one thing I am not is a thief. I have NEVER in my life stolen anything and I wasn't about to start yesterday. I am not saying that I am an angel. I have done many things in my life that I am not proud of. I smoke, I cuss and I forgot to call my Dad on Fathers Day (he died the next day). But there is no excuse for what she did.
The only part that really disturbs me here is, what happens to the second car dealer who gave her the good car? He accepted the title to that car thinking it was free and clear. will he be the one who ends up paying in the end? be careful not to involve innocent parties.
Again I thank you for the replies, even the negative ones. I did not think I wasn't or shouldn't be sued and never stated such. As a matter of fact I will be getting sued. That is almost a 100% as my attorney has stated. I never once said I wouldn't pay for the car or TranSouth what I owe them. If they have to get a judgement from me it really makes no difference because in either case I would still pay them. The second dealer is under no liability for what I did. They can't since I never told them such and for that matter again technically the title I traded to the dealer had no lien on it. There was no certifiable lien or paperwork claiming the title I gave the dealership was under any lien or claim to TranSouth. Only the first title and again, that was given to the dealership with TranSouth's knowledge and permission was the title with a lien on it. Again, I am not saying what I did was right, in fact it was wrong to do what I did and I wouldn't tell anyone else to do it or ever do it again, but what I did was not illegal as my attorney has stated. Immoral yes, but against the law no. I am presently in breach of the first contract I signed with them and for that matter the only contract I signed with them. As I have stated my attorney and their attorney are negotiating this matter. Since either party can request arbitration in lieu of a lawsuit or if one is filed, that is what we will end up doing if they can't work something out with me. This matter will go before arbitration. The ruling of the arbitrator is final. There is no appeal for either party. If and when TranSouth gets a positive decision from the Arbitrator they can then sue me to enforce the arbitrator's decision. My attorney has pointed out that the arbitrator can order TranSouth to accept payments from me to pay back the loan. My histroy and current situation of not being overdue will go in my favor. If the arbitrator does issue an order that I pay them in full, we can then see if they are willing to payments. If they are not they can then sue. Since I would never have the full amount to pay them and since PA is a well protected state against people who are broke and own nothing they are not likely to get much or go very far. As my attorney has stated to them, it is in their best intrests to want to work something out with me, or they could end up getting nothing. Desperate
WHATEVER. At the very LEAST what you did is called "title jumping" it is ILLEGAL and I quite frankly think that you need a CRIMINAL attorney that knows what he is talking about.
Okay, I was really going to have my final say, um, 20 posts ago... But I would really like to know what desperate is going to do in her life to make sure this crap won't happen again. Are you trying to repair your credit and manage your money to the point where you don't have to deal with sharks like transouth ever again? I'm was no "credit angel", and neither was the majority of the board before we found out that we HAVE to have good credit. After this legal mess, you are going to have to re-evaluate your life. This WAS pre-meditated and it came back to bite you in the ass. Now what? You get an attorney, go through arbitration and everything is going to be okay? Start doing right by your credit now desperate so you will never be "desperate" ever again.
