Oh Credit guru, gods & godesses hear my prayer! Ok, after searching this forum, I have not found an answer to this question...so here it goes. My DH has several judgements and chargeoffs on his CR. These accounts are being paid via Consumer Credit Counseling Services. These acct's have been paid consistently since 2000. Since we are cleaning up our credit to get a good mortgage, I have discovered that CCCS is considered a form of bankruptcy. (Funny, we thought we were being responsible and joining CCCS in order to make sure our creditors were being paid, BIT US IN THE A** BIGTIME!!) So the dilema is this: -We need to get his accts off CCCS in order to qualify for a home loan. -Several of these accts are judgements and are being paid thru CCCS. -There are CC accts being paid thru CCCS also. -We need to cancel CCCS completely anyway. BUT... What comes first the chicken or the egg? -Does DH cancel the accts and force the CA's to contact us? -Do we cancel CCCS and contact the CA to work out a deal? -Do we call all of the CA nd OC's and inform them that we are no longer going to be paying them thru CCCS and will be paying them directly and work out a deal? -If we cancel CCCS, the drones at CCCS warn us that most creditors will take away benefits and report negatively to the CRA's. I am scared and need some help. The last rationale is that since we are going to be paying the accts directly, this may force CA's to start calling us and possibly breaking laws. We would be developing a paper trail. In the meantime, DH will get the court papers for the judgements. Does anyone have any advice or if you need me to explain it better let me know. Any advice would be helpful and appreciated. DellaAnn
Della- I no Godess, though sometimes I'd like to think so, and I am definately no CCCS guru either, but here's my take: CCCS and the creditors have already placed a "bad mark" on your reports, just by using them. I'm sure before anyone can answer maybe a little more detail is needed such as: 1. How old are the judgements and how many? 2. How much is owed on the JM's? (individually) 3. Have you talked to a mortgage broker? 4. Can you afford lump sum "settlements", or just a set monthly payment? 5. Are all the accounts with CA's or are some still with creditors? 6. Are they JUST hubby's? Do you have any baddies? Those are just a few off the top of my head. I remember calling CCCS a few years ago and I remember them telling me I had to cut up and close all active accounts being placed in CCCS, did you have to do this?
You will get financing through a mortgage broker, but from my own experience here is what he is gonna tell you.... The lender will require..... You pay off all charge-offs and judgements, you will need to bring a cashier's check to closing to give to the lender and in turn the lender will pay off your debt's and judgements. You will most likely need 5% down on the home, add to this about 2 points and your taxes, fees and closing costs. This will be from a sub prime lender and the intrest rate will probably be between 8-10%, which is highway robbery, but, heck...you want a house now and not 7 years from now. The only other problem is that if you stop paying and do not pay off the debts these debts and judgements will remain for 7 years, judgments possibly more. This is because you are currently paying on them and then defaulted and that is the date the negative listing will now start at and the 7 year clock will now start ticking! I am in somewhat the same situation although I didn't go through CCCS. I just let my accounts charge-off and luckily no judgements. I had about 17 or so negative accounts back in april and now have about 3-4 between the 3 credit reports. This is still holding me back and I have applied for a mortgage and what I have stated above is what they want me to do to get approved. Here is what I am doing! My wife's credit reports are fairly good after I sued and disputed several of here negative accounts off of her credit report. Her credit scores are now in the high 600's and Equifax in the low 700's. This is in far contrast to 8 months ago when they were all in the 500's. She has only 2 accounts left that just will not budge...Capital One for $1260.00 and Providian for $2243.00. She was approved for a decent mortgage with the only stipulation being she paid those off. I am in the process now of trying to pay these in full for about half of what we owe. Capital One wants to refinance the charged off account with a company they own called Westmoreland. They say if I send them $100.00 they will contact the credit bureau and notify them to list the account as Paid and remove the charge-off and late notations. They will then transfer the balance to another account and re-issue another card. When you pay the new card on time every month, you can eventually use the extra balance to charge things on the card. I might look into this but I might also just pay them off and get rid of the mess. I would suggest saving alot of money and paying off your debts or looking at your credit reports and seeing what you can do. Tac
DellaAnn First thing, don't ge afraid, there are solutions to your situation. Let's try to go through them one at a time. Also, how soon do you need to get the mortgage? Available time affects the process. 1) CCCS is a negative on your DH's file. The way mortgage lenders look at them and all like them is they show an inablility to manage your own credit. So, you will need to first contact all creditors that you are paying therough CCCS and tell them you want to work directly with the creditor and want to know what arrangements you can work out. You will most likely need to go through at least 2 levels and maybe 3 to get to someone who really has the authority to make an arrangement with you. 2) After you make arrangements with the creditors, cancel CCCS. Understand, they are going to say that you are harming yourself and that the creditors won't work with you....BULL. CCCS was actually started, I believe, by the creditcard companies as a way to get people who weren't paying an alternative. CCCS benefits them and not you. 3) If you make an arrangement with a CA keep very detailed records because they will at some point screwup and violate FDCPA or FCRA and you can then nail them and get the negative removed. 4) Once DH has the court papers for the judgements, review them carefully and make sure there are no errors. If there are errors, you may be able to get them vacated and removed from your CR. Hope this helps, though without specific info I can not give more detailed answers. If you wish, you may email me off-board and I will go into greater detail with you. fla-tan
________________________________ Thanks for asking. TU - 4 (Rounding off numbers) 1. Civil Judgement entered: 6/98 $4400 2. PAID 11/01 - Civil Judg. ent.: 12/99 $3100 3. CJ entered: 12/99 $9700 4. CJ entered: 02/00 $1100 EQF 1. Civil Judgement filed:6/98 $4400 (but listed as satisfied, unlike TU, hmmmmmmmmmm) 2. PAID 11/01 - Civil Judg. ent.: 12/99 $3100 3. CJ entered: 12/99 $9700 4. CJ entered: 02/00 $1100 EXP 1. Civil Judgement filed:4/01 $290 2. CJ entered: 12/99 $7500 3. CJ entered: 6/98 $3400 4. CJ entered: 12/99 $2400 PAID Listed as satified 11/01 5. CJ entered: 02/00 $800 -I am not sure about you, but I am just noticing some discrepancies in the 3 reports. EQF lists a paid judgement whereas TU does not. -Also, Judgement #1 on EXP is not listed on TU and EQF reports. -The $ amounts on EXP do not match the $ amounts on the other two reports. Yes, we have talked to two mortgage brokers, one the the builder uses and one that we found on our own. Some of both of our accounts are with creditors, and also with CA's. DH has the judgements. The one judgement I had appparently is not listed on my CR's. YOu are right, CCCS does require you to cut up all of your cards or they will not accpet you into the program. I realized that we have gotten burned by them so bad that mortgage companies will barely even deal with us. Shoot! Based on the information above and some of the discrepancies I found, what do you think my next step should be? I want to dispute the judgements, is that very hard? DO they normally come back as verified? Della
Are all of your accounts with ccc judgments? Are any that aren't judgments still within SOL? What State are you in? You may wish to consider a different approach. If your existing judgments didn't go to attachment, it probably means you are "judgment proof". If you are in a "short" judgment State, 7 years or less, they will not only be off your reports in another 5 years at most, but be unenforceable as well.If you are safe from any additional judgments being filed, you should consider looking for a lease option, stop the ccc $$$ down a ratholem save the $$ for yor home purchase down the line 4 - 5 years from now. Or, if you have some $$ available -get yourself a buyer's broker who can scout the deals offered through people who do not want a repo on their records,and will lease option to you, plus lenders who HAVE repo houses and are looking for buyers, they will ALSO lease option.
Judegment Proof, I never heard of that term before. Where did you find this information. I would like to research it. Della
Never heard the term? Hmmm-- well it's not rocket science. If you live in a State that limits or prohibits garnishment,has homestead exemption, and you do not have equity in your cars over the exempted amount,do not have attachable or garnishable bank accounts over the exempted amounts, then the judgments cannot be executed,ergo "judgment proof". Some States have a 5 year period of time for judgments, which means they expire in 5 years and must come off your reports in 5 years also. You can "research" your own status by looking up the bk exemptions for your State, they are the same as judgment exemptions.
Hey thanks for inviting me to email you off board. This is the cross roads that I am at and with the judgments and them being paid on CCCS, I am not sure which. I am counting on them screwing up. Right now I can picture them smugly saying "We have a big bad court order and now they are scared into paying us". Now I want to turn the tables and say "yes, we will pay you, but only on our terms". Question, if I happen to get a judgement deleted via disputing, what are the chances of it re-appearing? Della I will email you.
Your concern should not, in my opinion, be about judgments "re-appearing" on your credit report, but rather that your activities will alert the judgment holders that you have assets that can be attached, a job that your wages can be garnished, or a car or other assets that can be seized.
So let me see if I understand. There is a possibility that in my efforts to remove the judgments or change the payments to direct instead of CCCS will trigger escalated collection tactics such as garnishment? Is this what you are referring too? Am I interpreting this correctly? Della
Della, You just don't seem to understand that a judgment is far more difficult to wiggle out of than a collection. That "big bad court order "is just that-big and bad. The judgment holder does not have to validate a thing. All they have to do is take steps to collect. AS WhyChat says, if they have any clue that you have assets or a job or anything state law allows them to attach then, expect them to do just that.
Then maybe I am not making myself clear. I do understand that judgements are up there with bankrupcty. It is a huge stain on a CR. These are last resort collection tactics when all other attempts to collect have failed. They CAN garnish even though they have not done so, probably since they are being paid on a regular basis. I can guarantee that they would get nasty if DH canceled CCCS and stopped paying entirely. But from reading this board and the past messages, they can be disputed with the CRA's. Having the funds to pay the judgements off work in our favor. I also pointed out the discrepencies (one CR showing paid, the other CR did not) and also the varying judgement amounts. They appear to be reported incorrectly. Which may or may not be enough proof to get them deleted from the CRA's. Also, the CA may not have followed the rules/law which may also work in our favor. I requested an opinion as to whether to leave them paid on CCCS or contact them and pay them hiself. My concern was that such an action would trigger a negative reaction such as i.e.,"garninshment". Or if I get it deleted from a CR, then if the CA escalated collection would it reappear since judgments can be renewed up to 12 years in our state. Punishment-for-paying I call it. I do know that besides disputing and having it fall off of a credit report, that it is a public record and short of a miracle, a vacate, or a deletion will not remove them. The CA will not help me get rid of the judgement, they wont validate, only luck and the law will. But I may be able to prove its not mine or they did not properly follow the law when they were granted the judgements (i.e., DH was never served and has no paperwork for any court hearings) Della
If you ARE able to "dispute" it off your credit report,you have not removed it from the public records. If you need a mortgage, or anything else, all anyone has to do is go to the State data base and look up your judgments,which unlike credit reports are PUBLIC RECORDS. If the judgments were improperly filed, you completely eliminated ANY possibility of having them vacated by paying on them. The act of payment nullifies any possible claim to vacate,as you have validated the judgment yourself. PLUS if you live in a State with 12 year renewal options on judgments, and you try to make any changes in your payment procedures NOW, you are GUARANTEEING not only probable execution of the existing judgments but renewal as well. I am NOT a fan of ccc, I think it is a cc sponsored rip-off that causes more credit damage than a bk, however, unless you qualify for bk ch7, which would wipe out the judgments completely,your best bet, I believe, is to complete the ccc program.
Thank for that post. Now I have two roads to chose from. So far the mortgage company has only pulled CR's in order to get a pre-approval letter. But at closing, I want the cleanest report I can get. We have been approved but the terms suck! And you are right, CCCS has been the biggest ripoff. Even to this day, their customer service swears that it is not frowned on by creditors, they have the schpeil that if you ever need to apply for a home loan, they will produce a letter proving that you are a good customer. Well, one mortgage company said they would take the letter, but it would do no good. It may even harm us. What's funny is that the lender who approved us mentioned they are glad we decided to be responsible for our debt, but it is a loan disqualifier big time. Another positive note is that at one time our CR's reported that they were in CCCS, now it is not noted anywhere on the report. It just disappeared! Not looking a gift horse in the mouth! Again thanks! Della
What happened to the Freddie Mac/NFCC 18-month plan? "By making payments on time through the Debt Management Product over a 18-month period, and participating in homebuyer pre- and post-purchase counseling, potential borrowersâ??even those with very low credit scoresâ??may qualify for a market-rate home mortgage loan." http://www.freddiemac.com/corporate/realestatepros/mortgprod/creditworks.htm DH: Dear Husband? Designated Hitter?
