After reading these boards.......

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by mrbreeze, Feb 28, 2003.

  1. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    .....for over a month now I have concluded that filing CH7 BK is not only quite common but not nearly as harmful as I had first thought. I have read stories of people with BK on their records able to obtain credit rather quickly and with the peace of mind of no more bills.....It is not nearly the "scarlet letter" I once thought it was. It even seems that BK is actually preferable to debt negotiation or even CCCS......So I guess except for the shame of having to say "I had to file Bankruptcy".....my question is if you are in Debt over your head......why NOT file?
     
  2. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    I happen to agree with you on that point but not necessarily for the same reasons you may have. I think it does because BK wipes out the debts if the debtor files the right type of BK but if not then there is no real difference in net effect since either way he has to pay the bills. Why do you think that BK is preferable to the other two?
     
  3. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    One reason is that more and more job applications want to know and if you answer affirmatively you don't get the job. Strangely enough increasing numbers of those jobs are jobs which have nothing to do with financial responsibility. Factory jobs, janitorial and maintenance and many others are in the blue collar area where no money is handled by the employee. So that's one possible reason not to file. Another is the cost of BK compared to a good debt termination strategy which does the same exact thing and leaves no trail whatever. I believe that when you look at it that way BK is a very, very poor choice as are the other two you mention.
     
  4. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    Thanks for the responses.......I guess I just haven't seen much anti-BK posts.....but I guess it's most likely due to most people that are posting have filed, and they are trying to clean up......the last thing someone wants to hear after they've already filed is "You shouldn't file".......which makes perfect sense.
     
  5. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    I'd be interested in finding one......esp the part of "leaving no trail whatever".....or are you referring to just paying everything in full? In which case really can't be done if you're over your head. Or at least I haven't found a way.
     
  6. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Then you just found the only one in existance that I know of that does not rely on some silly scheme whereby you pay the creditor or collector $10 bucks or so on whatever amount you might owe him and claim it to be payment in full and if he don't like it he can sue you and you can claim that he defrauded you because he didn't actually put up any of his own money to pay the merchants for what you got but rather monetized your note with which he funded your purchases. That or some other mad scheme that you would have to try to foist off on a judge. There is no end of the Looney Tunes out there and all of them want big, big bucks for them. They always have great success with their schemes until you ask them for a court case to prove their claims by or you find a forum full of people complaining about how bad they got beat and still looking for the next Looney Tune to waste their money on.
    Paying them will terminate the debt, of course but it won't help your credit ratings one little bit. From what I hear, if you can find a lawyer smart enough BK can be legally cloaked so that the credit bureaus can't find out that you filed bankruptcy but creditors just about anybody else can. Don't see how that could be but that is the claim I have heard.
     
  7. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Sorry...I may be a "little slow".....but what does that have to do with my question? You said that debt termination would leave no trail and is better than BK....can you give me a brief synopsis in laymans terms?
     
  8. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    I'll try, Mrbreeze.

    My viewpoint of what debt termination is or is not is quite different than that found in most explanations that I have seen.

    My idea of debt termination and how it works is this.
    In today's society there are so many laws that govern the actions of a debt collector that it is almost impossible for them to collect a debt without breaking one or more laws.

    It then should not be terribly difficult to understand that if one knows the law at least reasonably well and those laws which they are most likely to violate then it should not be hard to catch them at it and then sue the pants off of them.

    Since neither party wants to go to court very badly because of the enormous expense and more especially so if one can be made to see that they would have little or no chance of winning and might end up with huge damage awards they would be forced to pay plus the court costs and attorney fees for both sides then they will hopefully want to avoid that at almost all possible costs.

    So if one offers them a more reasonable way out of the problem they themselves created one might very well have a reasonable expectation that they would be willing to take that reasonable way out and that it may well be much cheaper to just pay the debt and take it off the credit reports rather than face the alternative which has been known to result in damage awards well over $100,000 and up to as much as $5.5 million in one well known case.

    If you were the debt collector who had committed multiple violations of the law which would you do, fight or take a chance on getting killed in court?

    Does that suffice?
     
  9. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    I can.

    FORGET IT!!!


    (That's a good synopsis Bill)

    :)
     
  10. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Thanks Butch. And thanks for awakening me to the fact that the full story hasn't been told yet

    I think it should be so that all can see the differences, so I will.

    Debt termination as it is commonly called is totally different. It normally attempts to invoke one kind or other of fraud charges lodged against the creditor thereby hopefully either convincing or forcing him to forget about collecting the debt that is lawfully owed.

    With that said, let me hasten to state that my form of debt termination does not even attempt to force the creditor nor the collector to forget about the debt which is still legally owed and payable and probably very much overdue. There is nothing on the face of this earth including bankruptcy that will actually wipe out the debt except payment in full.

    Bankruptcy cannot and does not attempt to do that. All that bankruptcy does is to make the debt legally uncollectable but does not wipe out the fact that while you may not legally owe the debt you still do owe it from a moral standpoint and that is why some good folks will file bankruptcy and then either reaffirm the debt at some point in time or go pay what is rightfully due even though they have no obligation to do so. While it is extremely rare there are still those folks who live by God's principles and who will do as they believe God would have them do no matter how painful or expensive it may be. May God Bless them richly. For those who do otherwise, may God forgive them for they probably know not what they do. Although the bankruptcy courts may seem to be telling the people to go and sin no more many don't pay attention to that either. (LOL)

    In their attempts to defraud their creditors with most debt termination programs people who attempt to use them always end up either defrauding those who claim defrauded them and if unsuccessful which is usually the case they have tried to defraud them at the very least. Two wrongs never make a right. Again, they know not what they do.

    And in their uncaring ignorance they use anything they can lay their hands on and justify twisting it out of context and into serving their ends regardless of the original intent of the information or law.

    The major problem that they run into in their attempts to defraud is that one cannot have benefitted or continue to benefit from the fraud (real or imagined) they claim to have been victimized by. So if they want to complain that the lender used their mortgage to monetize the debt instead of using the lender's money to do so which is their usual theory then they would have had to divest themselves of whatever they bought before they could logically claim they had been defrauded in the first place and of course they are not about to do that.

    I do not stoop to such idiotic tactics.
     
  11. bigmon

    bigmon Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    MrBreeze,

    On average 1.5 million people file Bk every year so that's why there isn't the stigma it once had. Kinda like divorce. 30 years ago you were considered a loser, now it's hard to find someone that hasn't had a divorce.

    Some lenders like the idea that you can't file again for 6 years and have no debt so they feel safe. These are the ones that will give you easy credit after BK. However, they will normally charge you for it.
     
  12. plepue

    plepue Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Just my opinion, but I think far to many people are coaxed into BK by BK attorneys. Unless creditors have actually filed suit or you owe on a sceured claim (such as a car or a home), the strategies propounded on this board are far superior to BK.

    Although BK puts a stay on all debt collection it will affect you for ten years. For most people, negotiations and disputes/validations will achieve a cleaner record in less than two years and still leave the possibility of filing a BK petition in the future if need be.

    Paul
     
  13. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Awww Comeon now. Surely you don't actually believe them lawyers would stoop to such dirty tricks as that just to make a few bucks, now do you?

    If so I'll bet you even believe cats will eat a poor mouse.

    LOL
     
  14. plepue

    plepue Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    As a lawyer myself, I'm not sure how to respond to that.

    As an individual that filed for BK before college and law school, I have experienced this encouragement to file firsthand. KNowing what I know now, I never would have filed, and if I had, I never would have allowed my wife to be included in the BK. Hindsight . . .

    Paul
     
  15. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Just as all blondes are not dumb all lawyers are not scalawags nor scoundrels.

    As Father Flanagan who was the founder of Boys Town in Omaha Nebraska once said, there is a little bad in the best of us and a little good in the worst of us.

    Have a nice day
     
  16. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Yes,

    That was quite helpful.
     
  17. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Yes,

    That was quite helpful.
     
  18. life

    life Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Paul-

    Very profound, and well stated. I MAY be facing the big BK; however, I am attempting all that I can sensibly do beforehand.

    Sensibility to me is, using the letters from this board, certified, signed return receipt requested for validation.

    I'm paying off my one credit card now, and plan to store it in a safe, safe place. My student loans are safely in forbearance. The bulk of my debts are old medical bills that accrued while I was a full-time, underemployed student, separated.

    I am now facing the underemployment issue again potentially this summer.

    My biggest concern being if I awaken a CA, and I am sued before the statute of limitations runs can/ will/ likely/ that debt still be included in a BK as noncollectable?

    I mean what are the chances that I'll really dig my own grave by validating a debt... Anyway, I know just enough to get myself into trouble and not enough to calm the rising anxiety.

    I have a BK attorney who is ready to help when I call, but I have hope that the anxiety will subside, the fear will go away, and the strategies I'm learning here will begin to take hold in a positive manner.

    life
     
  19. bigmon

    bigmon Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    Even if you get sued you can still put it in BK... one of the benefits of BK is you can fight the CA and if things get really tilted against you then hit them with a BK and stop them dead.

    Plan ahead to get the most out of BK if you file.
     
  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Re: Re: After reading these boards.......

    A BK will render a judgment uncollectable.
     

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