A co-worker of mine had bad news today. She pulled a copy of her credit report because the bank had frozen her account. She had no idea why, so she decided to check it out. She had 23 positive things on her report (most closed and paid), but noticed 2 credit cards she never asked for on the report. Both were maxed out totalling over $2,600 each. She called the credit card companies, and they said they were hers, and insisted her personal info is on the credit applications. She is working on this.....Then she see's an inquiry that confused her. She called the company, and finds out someone applied for a home mortgage in her name with her SSN and bank account #'s. We are in Arizona, and this is taking place in Georgia !! She asked if the loan was approved, and they told her it is still in the works. She is hoping in a way that the loan goes through, so she can hop on a plane and do a little house visit !! Now, something a little off the subject...Sorry friends, I have to get this off my chest because it is bothering me... *********** NOT CREDIT RELATED *********** I go to an attempted suicide call a few hours ago. A man had shot himself (or so we thought). I get there, and he had not shot himself, but fired in the air because he was upset. There were 6 of us there, so I questioned his son (36 years old). I asked him where the rifle was now, and he said it was in his room. He then runs to his room. I tell him to stop...He keeps going. He gets on his knees and reaches under the bed..I say stop...He says F-YOU...He comes up with a rifle. Now he has my gun aimed at his head..He says again...F-YOU. My finnger goes to the trigger, and he drops the rifle. Nobody died, and I am happy about that, but on the other hand, it could be different. I am glad I did not shoot, but wonder if it was hesitation on my part that could have gotten me killed. What happens next time if I hesitate? Did I hesitate because I felt he could be stopped without shooting him? I just dont know. If there are any other cops on this board, please tell me what you think. I point my weapon at people almost every night (I work a bad side of town) but rarely put my finger on the trigger like this evening. Thanks for listening. I know the 2nd part of this does not belong on this board, but I HAD to get it off my chest. I hope you understand.
Deputy, First off, I'm sorry to hear about your friend and her troubles. She should be placing fraud alerts on her reports right away as well as filing a <grin> police report. Second, God bless you for doing the work you do. I certainly couldn't be in your shoes. 24 years ago, my father, who was a police officer at the time was at what he described a routine call for a domestic disturbance. It was him and his partner. They got to the house and heard what sounded like a struggle taking place inside. They got the front door open and went in. They had to go through several rooms to find the perp. The boyfriend had a gun. My fathers partner who was SUPPOSED to back him up, didn't. He was what I'll always refer to as a coward. He ran. The boyfriend shot my father. My father is not dead, however he was in the hospital for a long time. It was so bad that he had to retire and forced to take his pension, which is what he's been on ever since. The moral of my story? Always protect yourself from harms way. I know things are different today, police officers are trained better, and handle situations differently, but back then, what my father and his partner did (up until his partner ran) was by the book. You never know what the other guy is thinking, and if you have a family (like my father) you want to come home to them every night safe and sound.
Lizardking, In reference to your question if PO are trained to shoot the leg or arm to disable. I can speak for Ohio and the answer is NO. First off, no one can be trained to be such a marksman as to actually shoot an arm or leg during situations where a PO might be firing his weapon. You are trained to shoot twice, center mass on the body or they are moving towrds shoot twice center mass then one in the head area due to dirtballs wearing protective vests. There is a scale of allowable force used. The PO has his hands, OC spray and baton to physically disable the suspect. If these do not work and the PO has a possibility of being seriously physically injured or the PO fears that another person may be seriously physically harmwed by the dirtball, he may use deadly force. The only thing a gun should be used for is to kill a person. If I do not have to kill them for mine or someone else's protection, I can use hands, spray, baton, or, if safe to do so, retreat and come back with all my friends in tow. Hope that helps. By the way, good job Deputy!!! Keep your cool, you get to go home that night........
Deputy, sorry your friend is going through the ID theft problem. I imagine when this is over, the individual who did this will realize that rule #1 for identity thieves is, first, make sure your victim is not a cop!! About your experiences last night: you have a very difficult job. I have no idea how it feels to have some distraught individual point a gun at me, thank God. I don't think there is any answer, except that IMO, good cops are good cops because they make the right decision in each circumstance. No two situations are the same, and you can't speculate what you will or will not do next time because you can't know what will happen. I guess it's only human to speculate about what could have happened when you come as close as you did to shooting someone or getting shot. What can anybody say?? You made the right decision this time.
Deputy, Except for the bad apples out there, I think it's ok for a cop to follow his/her instincts. You have to make split decisions and you shouldn't always second guess your instincts in potentially life-threatening situations. About your friend...since the ID thief applied for a mortgage, they probably divulged a lot of info that will help to nab them. Good luck to both of you.
Hello all. First I want to thank you for all your kind words. I was just trying to decide if I made the right choice. In last nights situation, either choice would have been right. My major question to myself was why did I make the choice I made? I see (2) points to this: 1. Don't shoot (the choice I made). Idiot stays alive, his mother still has her son, my name isn't plastered all over the news today, no shooting board to answer to, no admin leave, I don't have to live with the fact that I killed someone (who actually had an unloaded weapon - not that it matters loaded or not...but still......) 2. Shoot (choice I did not make). Would have been justified, another second of delay and I could have been killed. As I stated before, my worry is why I did not shoot I am worried that this situation will stick in my mind next time, and if I delay it could be different. ACK..I just don't know. Pointing my weapon at people in the line of duty it certainly nothing new to me. I do it all the time to make sure situations like that of last night don't occure in the first place. This is also not my first life & death situation I have been in at work, and I really don't know why it is bothering me. LizardKing...In response to your question, we are never trained to shoot to injure. Shooting someone in the leg may stop them from running, but wont stop them from shooting you. Some people will say that we shoot to kill...That is also not true. We shoot to stop that bad guy period. People shot in the heart can still come at you and kill you before they die. I have seen video of this. I have seen a bad guy get shot in the heart, and live for the extra 20 seconds to pick up his gun and shoot the cop in the head 3 times. I am was previously trained to shoot twice in the chest and once in the head (if bad guy was still standing). This is slowly going away. We are starting to train to simply shoot for the center of whatever is available. If a man is holding a baby in one arm in front of his stomach, and a gun in the other hand pointing at you...in my opinionn the chest is no longer an option..I will take the rest of him and aim for the cennter of that. Hope that helps....
I think no one can answer that but you. Most probably, it is because your first consideration was another person's life. Is that wrong? no. In your line of work, it might get you killed or maimed. My guess is that it will affect you next time. That's what experience does. You said it's the first time - other cops can probably shed more light on your feelings. I doubt civilians can do much except theorize, even mental health professionals, unless they've been where you've been. I could never do what you do. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like. Good cops are everyday heroes who never make the headlines because nothing happened. We all know you're there, we wouldn't have the freedom to live our lives if you weren't. So we ordinary people can only give you moral support, I think.
First off let me state that you did the right thing. I am a Police Officer myself in Pennsylvania and I've been where you've been several times in my career. Last year I almost shot a teenager who pointed a pellet gun at me. Had I not noticed how small the end of the barrel was I definetly would have shot him. People that don't care much about their own lives certianly don't care about yours. I probably would have shot this guy had be pulled and pointed a rifle at me. In fact I know I would. This is not because I am Billy Badass or have no regard for human life, quite the opposite. I have a pretty decent life, besides some bad credit, a good wife and a 5 month old child to take care of and come home to. I promise them I will be home at the end of my shift and I will not let them down because some stupid idiot chooses to point a loaded rifle at me. In hesitating in that split second could cost you your life. We as police officers do not have time to think things through, they happen way to fast. My choice whenever dealing with a disturbed or hell bent individual is to try and get behind some type of good cover or look around to see if there is any if I need it. When you have good cover available this allows you to take an extra second to re-evaluate a situation while staying somewhat safe. Go easy on yourself as it all worked out ok. Please stay safe and don't second guess your actions. Always look out for number 1, Remember that! Fred 1*
Deputy, First check following a crisis. Check your pulse. Still got one? Good, that's the important thing. You and your partner are alive and no innocents got seriously hurt due to your actions or inactions. That passes the "good thing" test. It doesn't matter if the gun was loaded or not, because ALL GUNS ARE LOADED. (Remember that, Please!) It didn't come down to it, but if it HAD come down to shooting it can only work out two ways. Let's go back to your options: Option One: His mom loses her son due to his own stupidity. Option Two: Your mom loses her son due to his stupidity in not shooting the idiot in Option One. I'm a soldier with an extensive special operations career. I've been a door-kicker before and had good and bad outcomes from going in first. I've chosen to pull the trigger and never worried about it. I've also chosen NOT to shoot and done a lot more soul-searching about why I didn't afterwards. You are having a normal reaction. Anybody worth their rank will tell you that you never second-guess the man on the ground. YOU were the one looking at the other guy's gun and YOU made the call. I can spend hours analyzing a decision you had seconds to make but my theoretical input has no bearing on the facts that you were the one with conscious, unconscious, and subliminal knowledge of what was happening. There are a thousand cues someone throws off in a hostile fire situation and you were the only one there to read them. Did some twitch in the guy's arm or eye tell you that he wasn't gonna shoot you? Was the rifle in a position where he couldn't get it around to bear on you before you KNEW you could drop him? OK, so you had one up the snout, safety off, and were taking up slack; was that what caused him to finally freeze? You can't fake the message of: "I am about to kill you". Were the cues you were sending to him interpreted as "Drop it or die"? If so, that is what saved his life. You done good! I don't know the answers, and it doesn't matter if I ever do. What matters is that you sit down and decide that: If a situation like this ever comes up again, you CAN pick the other option if necessary. If you, after serious consideration, decide that you CAN'T shoot the bad guy when your life may be on the line, it's time to hang up your badge. Go get a job doing something that won't require you to make that choice. There is nothing wrong with not being a Cop. There is a lot wrong with making your wife a widow and your kids fatherless when you knew in advance that you couldn't pull that trigger. Oh yeah, and don't forget your partner's wife and kids because he died expecting you to cover him. If you decide that you CAN make that choice if need be, then thank God you didn't have to shoot the idiot and go on with your life a little more experienced and a little wiser. Good luck and God Bless, Dancer
Deputy She called the company, and finds out someone applied for a home mortgage in her name with her SSN and bank account #'s. We are in Arizona, and this is taking place in Georgia !! She asked if the loan was approved, and they told her it is still in the works. She is hoping in a way that the loan goes through, so she can hop on a plane and do a little house visit !! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would get the local (GA) POLICE or FBI there involved in the FRAUD case... They should get a meeting set up at the REAL-ESTATE office and BUST THEM!!! Maybe it could be on COPS???
Deputy, Big hugs for you!!!!!! I've a soft spot for all the boys in blue; I'm married to one. We too are in Arizona and there's far to many tragedies and fatalities in the news. I'm glad you didn't have to shoot but feel that should you ever need to pull that trigger, I hope your aim is dead-on. There's no job worth your own life and I know you don't make enough money for putting yours on the line everyday, police work by and large, is of the heart. There was a case not to long ago of another officer in Arizona that was the victim of identity theft, I'll see if I can't dig up something on that. One thing is for sure, to minimize damages she's got to nip it in the bud every way she can, the sooner the better.
Thank you all so much...Your kind words have really set my mind at ease regarding my decision. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that I could have pulled the trigger. I think it was just something in his eyes that said "HELP ME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING". I think that is why I didn't shoot, and thanks to you all, I feel better about it. I have retrieved some of the best advice I have ever seen in regards to credit on this board, so I felt comfortable sharing last nights experiennce with you. You guys (and gals) are the best. Thanks for letting me rant a bit off the subject. Thanks Sassyinaz for the hug. I needed that. Thanks Dancer and Tac14033 for advice from other law enforcement professionals (great advice), and thanks to Breeze, George, Rina, LizardKing, Kozman and mindcrime for the moral support. It is nice to know that not all poeple think of us as the guys you only want to talk to when you need help. And as Tac14033 says, We all only have 1* So when yours is in trouble...We will be there. Take care....
Deputy, I hope this doesn't sound simple, but you didn't shoot because you weren't "supposed" to shoot! I believe in destiny/devine plans/soul maps/soul contracts.....whatever you want to call it. It played out the way it was supposed to play out. Your insticts told you what to do and you listened to that inner voice. That is what probably makes you a great PO!! God Bless! G
When i was 17 the police made an example out of me.,But the problem was i didn't commit the crime..It was a charge of Motor Vehicle Homocide.My friend who was the driver died and the detectives really didn't like me because i would get in trouble for little things and get sent free because dad knew the cop's..Anyways it has been 10 years now and i cant stop thinking about how i got railroaded more or less..I served 2 years in jail and am finaly getting my license after 10 years..Beleive it or not the state did not have one eye witness placing me in that drivers seat..It was all hearsay of people at the party AND there biggest witness the Parole Officer..When i had to turn over my license i said to her "It's all screwed up" meaning the situation..Well 3 weeks later she gave a Detective a statement saying i said i screwed up and this is what put me in jail i beleive.Also they repeated this saying to the jury. Is this the work of a sober person or a drunken one?At end of the trial lawyer got other victims med file and showed him with below the limit (blood) This was brought up with no jury present and was dropped. A year or so ago i noticed the test was taken 4 hours after the accident..He was drinking as well and caused the accident i bet..Anyways my lawyer saw the Detective later on in D+D.The cop said "I hope we put the right one in jail" And there is so much more..I could probably write a book..I learned one thing..If you get into a bad situation with the law and the prosecution wants you bad and you cant afford a good lawyer the odds are like the lottery you are going to lose..Anyways i am glad you are ok and everyhing worked out..
Not an easy job thats for certain. Did you do the right thing? Well you are alive and so is he. So I think at some level you recognized what you needed to do and trusted your instincts. Damed if you do and damed if you don't. Its not easy to be a soldier or cop in this day and age. Parts of this society and most of the media think its cruel and criminal to defend ones self and the prevailing cultural atmosphere can cloud ones judgement. Soldiers and cops who defend their people and themselves are seen as the bad guys and the "bad" guys who murder and blow up innocents are seen as needing compassion and understanding and freedom from oppression and therapy. If it were me, I would be certain that I could pull the trigger if needed. Even if I made a mistake, my life comes first. Self preservation is ones right, indeed ones responsibility.
