Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Combat casualty shakes families The 101st Airborne Division's first combat casualty in Operation Iraqi Freedom has left Fort Campbell shaken -- particularly the spouses left behind anxious for news from the front. Yvonne Thomas, whose husband is in Iraq, finds such sad news brings some relief too -- for her at least. "In a way I was happy it wasn't my husband, but I was sad we lost another one," she said. "It sends a shock straight to your heart. You're glad it's not your husband, but it's someone else's husband, wife, mother or father that's grieving." Army Spc. Brandon J. Rowe, 20, died Monday after a bullet entered an unarmored spot below his arm, said his mother, Wendy Borowski, who was notified of her son's death that evening at her Roscoe, Ill., home. The Department of Defense confirmed late Wed-nesday that Rowe, of C Company, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, was killed in action in Ayyub, Iraq. Like Thomas, Janice Zinger said she was relieved to learn her husband, Richard, was safe. "You're sitting on the edge of your chair, saying 'Please don't let it be my husband's unit,'" Zinger said. "It's nerve-wracking. I'm going to have a head full of gray hair by the time he comes home." Borowski and her family welcomed on Wednesday an endless stream of print and television media into their two-story home. In the foyer, the family displayed photos of Rowe and a hand-written letter from him dated March 10. It arrived at the family's home on March 23. It was one of the last times Rowe communicated with them. "He was prepared to go," said Rowe's older brother Brent. "He believed in his training and his mission. He truly felt he was helping people in Iraq. Since his death, it hasn't changed anything about how we feel." Rowe was a 2000 graduate of Hononegah High School in Rockton, Ill., where the flag flew at half-staff. "It was either a bullet or shrapnel," Brent Rowe, 25, of Chicago, said of the cause of his brother's fatal injury. "They told us it was indirect fire, but I'm not sure what that means." Evidence can be seen in the community of support for the family. The marquee outside the Maranatha Assembly of God Church reads: "Roscoe mourns the loss of Spc. Brandon Rowe." A sign outside the Roscoe Township office reads: "Remember Brandon Rowe. He gave his life for our freedom." Rowe's father, Milton Rowe lives in Elkhorn City, Ky. During a telephone interview, he said he talked to his son just days before he departed in early March to Iraq. "We talked for a half an hour, and I told him how much we loved him and cared about him and how proud we are of him." Milton Rowe said the family tried on more than one occasion to talk Brandon Rowe out of joining the armed services, but his mind was made up. The END ************************* LB 59 My wife's first cousin is in this unit. His dad my wife's uncle was born and raised in the Elisabeth Palestine W.Va.area where Jessica Lynch is from.
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Quoted from a Frenchman that I know "The French blew up 3 British re-supply ships in the Charleston Harbor during the Revolutionary War, facilitating the British retreat, which was ALREADY in progress." Now unless you mean to imply that the destruction of 3 British supply ships ruined the British war effort........ No, I guess I'm not implying that Chirac has to agree to everything we say. But you have to admit that the things he has said have been pretty darn ugly.
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Iraqi 'hero' led Marines to injured POW Man drew maps of hospital where Lynch was being held Friday, April 4, 2003 Posted: 5:23 AM EST (1023 GMT) Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch was rescued Tuesday from Saddam Hussein Hospital near Nasiriya, Iraq. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Story Tools -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SPECIAL REPORT â?¢ War Tracker â?¢ On the Scene Map â?¢ Commanders: U.S. | Iraq â?¢ Weapons: 3D Models â?¢ Coalition casualties | POW/MIA â?¢ Special Report VIDEO Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued from an Iraqi hospital, is recovering after back surgery. CNN's Jeff Flock reports. PLAY VIDEO (CNN) -- An Iraqi man who helped U.S. Marines plan the rescue of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch has been granted refugee status and has been described by the Marines as a "hero." The man, identified only as Mohammad, is in a secure location along with his family, according to the Marine Corps Web site. Lynch and seven other members of her unit, the 507th Maintenance Company, were listed as missing after they made a wrong turn near Nasiriya on March 23 and drove into an ambush. Five other members of the unit were shown on Iraqi TV and are listed as prisoners of war; two were killed in action. At least four were wounded. Lynch is recovering at Landstuhl Air Base in Germany. An article written by Sgt. Joseph R. Chenelly and posted on the Marines' Web site describes how Mohammad, a lawyer from Nasiriya, helped U.S. forces carry out the raid that freed the 19-year-old supply clerk Wednesday. While visiting his wife, a nurse at Saddam Hussein Hospital, Mohammad noticed an increase in security and asked one of the doctors what was going on. "He told me there was a woman American soldier there," Mohammad said. After the doctor showed Mohammad where Lynch was being held, Mohammad said he saw an Iraqi colonel slap Lynch twice. "My heart stopped," he said. "I knew then I must help her be saved. I decided I must go to tell the Americans." That day, Mohammad walked 10 kilometers [about six miles] to a Marine checkpoint. He approached with his hands in the air and told them he had "important information about Jessica." The Marines asked him to return to the hospital to gather information about the building and about Lynch's location inside. "I went to see the security," he said. "I watched where they stood, where they sat, where they ate and when they slept." As Mohammad observed Lynch's captors, Iraqi paramilitary forces stormed his home in Nasiriya and seized many of his belongings, including his car. His wife and 6-year-old daughter fled to a neighbor's home. "I am not worried for myself," he said. "Security in Iraq loyal to Saddam will kill my wife. They will kill my [child]." Describing the scene at the hospital, Mohammad said Lynch was covered up to her chin by a white blanket, with her head bandaged and a serious wound on her right leg. He said the doctors had planned to amputate her leg, but Mohammad and a friend, who had helped him get past the heavy security surrounding Lynch, created diversions to delay the surgery. "She would have died if they tried it," Mohammad said. For two days, he walked through battles in the streets of Nasiriya to get to the hospital. In addition to watching the guards' movements, each morning he attempted to keep Lynch's spirits strong with a "good morning" in English. Mohammad said Lynch acted bravely throughout the ordeal. When reporting back to the Marines on March 30, Mohammad brought five maps he and his wife had made. He was able to point to the room where Lynch was being held. He also handed over the security layout, reaction plan and times that shift changes occurred. He had counted 41 Iraqi forces, and determined that a helicopter could land on the hospital's roof. That information helped U.S. forces plan and carry out a successful nighttime raid April 1. Mohammad praised the Marines and the U.S.-led war to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, and said that he and his family hope to meet Lynch in the future. The END ************************* LB 59
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq April 4, 2003 7:15 a.m. The Train Is Leaving the Station Will our â??friendsâ? jump on in time? http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson040403.asp Wars disrupt the political landscape for generations. Changes sweep nations when their youth die in a manner impossible during peace. An isolationist United States became a world power after the defeat of Japan and Germany, buoyed by the confidence of millions of returning victorious veterans. Even today the pathologies of American society cannot be understood apart from the defeat in Vietnam, as an entire generation still views the world through the warped lenses of the 1960s. In some sense, postmodern quirky France today is explicable by the humiliation of 1940 and its colonial defeats to follow. So, too, one of the most remarkable military campaigns in American military history will shake apart the world as few other events in the last 30 years. Depressed and discredited pundits now turn to dire predictions of years of turmoil in postbellum Iraq. A lunatic Syria promises a Lebanon to come. Meanwhile we are currently reassured that the Atlantic Alliance is unchanged. The Washington-New York corridor, in sober and judicious tones, has rightly emphasized to us all that we must work harder to renew our old ties â?? echoed by their like counterparts in Europe. But it is eerie how the more the experts insist on all these probable scenarios, the more they seem terrified that things are not as they were. Something weird, something unprecedented, is unfolding, driven by American public opinion â?? completely ignored in Europe â?? and the nationâ??s collective anger that Americans are dying by showing restraint as they are slandered by our â??friends.â? Despite the protestations of a return to normalcy, this present war will ever so slowly, yet markedly nonetheless, change Americaâ??s relationships in a way unseen in the last 30 years. With little help from Saudi Arabia or Turkey â?? â??alliesâ? and â??hostsâ? to our troops â?? damned by many of our NATO allies, stymied in the U.N., turned on by Russia, opposed by Germany and France, the Coalition nevertheless is systematically liberating a country under the most impossible of conditions. This experience in turn will oddly â?? if we avoid hubris and maintain our sanity â?? liberate us as well. Far from making the United States hegemonic, the success in Iraq will have a sobering effect on Americans. Contrary to pundits the hard-fought Anglo-American victory will not make us into hegemonists, but simply less naïve about tradition-bound relationships and the normal method of doing business. I would expect military spending to increase, even as reluctance grows to get involved with any of our traditional allies. Given billions of dollars in foreign aid, the past salvation of Europe from the Soviet juggernaut, and a half-century of protection under our nuclear shield, the old way was supposed to work something like the following. At worse France and Germany would quietly call Mr. Powell. They would explain their predicaments and then abstain at the U.N., ensuring passage of a second decree. The traditionally wise and savvy German diplomats â?? conscious of everything from the Berlin Airlift to the American promise to pledge New York to preserve Bonn from a Soviet nuclear strike â?? would cherish American goodwill toward the German people, grimace somewhat, and then say something like: â??We believe you are wrong; but we are not going to ruin a half-century of mutual amity over a two-bit fascist Iraq. So good luck, win, and let us pray that you, not us, are right â?? for both our sakes.â? A Turkish prime minister would learn from Tony Blair, and thus explain to his parliament the historic and critical relationship with the United States, while vigorously campaigning to win approval for our armored divisions to hit Iraq from the north to help shorten a controversial war. Mexico and Canada would complain privately, but express North American solidarity. In other words, sober and sane Western statesmen would swallow their pique at a powerful United States acting unilaterally, seek to provide it diplomatic cover, and quietly accept that a removal of a mass-murdering dictator was in all liberal statesâ?? interests. Instead, just the opposite happened, and so we must eventually react to this radical realignment that brought it about. We can start with those hosts of American military bases. Many Americans are now dead in part because a NATO ally Turkey not merely refused its support, but did so in such a long and drawn out fashion that it is impossible to believe that it was not preordained to hamper U.S. military operations. And, of course, Turkeyâ??s last-minute refusals to allow transit of U.S. divisions did exactly that by delaying the critical rerouting of troops and supplies to the Gulf. I would expect that we all will smile, still extend some minor aid, but simmer on the inside and quietly and professionally take steps to ensure that we are never put in such a position again. We should, without fanfare, bow out of Turkish-EU discussions, and let Europe and Turkey on their own decide the wisdom of allowing an Islamic country into the â??liberalâ? European confederation. The EU can handle Cyprus. Who knows, maybe Brussels will be forced to reward Turkish recalcitrance toward America with renewed subsidies and membership â?? and who cares? So in the eleventh hour of this war, the democratic government of Turkey must pass some decree, if only symbolic, that they value our friendship and wish us to win in Iraq. Ditto the erosion with the Saudi Arabian relationship even if, as I expect, we will soon hear from their sheiks with various proclamations of liberalization and greater freedom for their unfree. Bases that earn us enmity, cannot be adequately used when Americans die nearby, and are expensive political liabilities, are not military assets. And the paradox grows worse when bases exist through the pretexts that they in part help to protect the host country that does not wish to be protected. We should smile, profess goodwill â?? and then withdraw all American troops from Saudi Arabia as soon as events settle down in Iraq, reassessing in a post-Cold War, post-9/11 world our entire relationship with that medieval country. After all, we buy oil from the worst of all dictatorships in Teheran and the people there like us better than do the Saudis precisely because we are not complicit in their government. The Saudis, of course, could still catch the train as it leaves the station, close the madrassas, and join the 21st century â?? but it is their call, not ours. We are told that an Israeli-Palestinian solution will restore our good name in the Middle East. Maybe. But like the past spectacle of Palestinians cheering news of the 3,000 American dead, the recent West Bank volunteers who wish to go to Baghdad to blow up more Americans and protect another Arab fascist donâ??t play well in the United States â?? and make us wonder what our hundreds of millions of dollars in aid for the Palestinian Authority are for. Continued:
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Continued: We must maintain cordial relations with Russia â?? but Russia has never had an accounting with tens of thousands of Communist apparatchiks who here and there inhabit the present government. This was a country, after all, which to the silence of the Arab and European worlds killed thousands of Muslims in Chechnya, rooted for the mass murderer Milosevic, allowed weapons to be sold to Saddam Hussein that would be used to kill Americans, and thwarted all our efforts in the U.N. Surely it is time for sobriety and circumspection in everything we do with them. If we thought Turkeyâ??s recent turnabout was depressing, imagine a South Korea when that crisis heats up, as thousands in Seoul take to the street to protest our presence as they are hours away from being annihilated by North Korean artillery. As soon as possible we should begin discussions about carefully drawing down troops and relocating them far to the south to compose a â??strategic reserveâ? as tens of thousands of wealthy brave South Korean teenagers assume their exclusive place on the front-line to protect their own motherland from Korean Stalinists. And if we cannot convince China that it is time to rein in Pyongyangâ??s nukes, then we should throw up our hands and let Tokyo, Seoul â?? even Taiwan â?? do what is necessary to provide for their own strategic deterrence. In the neighborhood of the battlefield, Iran is in a unique position. The illegitimate government will have to tell its own restless population why the liberation of Iraq next door is a bad thing. The unfortunate Iranians, scarred by a dirty war with Saddam Hussein, weary of mullocracy that they brought in themselves, will not be unhappy that the soldiers a decade ago who slaughtered them are losing, and the changes that are coming across the border are what they themselves want. Syria, the embryo of most terrorist groups and the occupier of Lebanon, still issues empty threats. For all the scary rhetoric and promises of worldwide jihad, an impotent Syria must be terrified of the consequences should it send direct aid to Saddam Hussein. It is a historical rarity that 300,000 United States troops are at last fighting an Arab dictator with 70 percent of the American peopleâ??s support â?? and losing far less dead than those slaughtered in one day in their sleep in a barracks in Lebanon. And then there is the madness of Europe. It is time to speak far more softly and carry a far larger stick. France may be right that we all have really come to the end of history â?? and so we should give them an opportunity to prove it, to match deed with word by being delighted as we withdraw troops from Germany. Germany may or may not be embracing the frightening old nationalist rhetoric â?? but again that will be Franceâ??s problem, not ours. Let us hope that the more sober in Germany can still grasp at what Mr. Schroeder has nearly thrown away, and see that few superpowers have given it so much and asked for so little in return â?? and genuinely wish it to do well. But again it is their call, not ours. We do not have to withdraw from a dead NATO, but we should simply grin and spend as much on it as Europe does â?? and so let it die on the vine. How could we be allies with such countries as France and Germany when sizable minorities there want a fascistic Saddam Hussein to defeat us? There is not much need to speak of the governments of Canada and Mexico. More liberal trade agreements and concessions with Mr. Chretien are about as dead as open borders are with Mr. Fox. It is the singular achievement of the present Canadian government to turn a country â?? whose armed forces once stormed an entire beach at Normandy and fielded one of the most heroic armies in wars for freedom â?? into a bastion of anti-Americanism without a military. Both countries are de facto socialist states, and the Anglo-French pique we see in Europe is right across our northern borders in miniature. Anyone who looked at the papers in Mexico City could rightly assume our neighborsâ?? elite preferred an Iraqi victory. And so where does all that leave us? Unlike the conventional rhetoric of pessimists (e.g., â??the world hates usâ?), we may well be in a stronger position than ever before. Russian arms, German bunkers, and French contracts will become known in Iraq and will be weighed against Americaâ??s use of overwhelming force for a moral cause in a legal and human fashion against a barbaric regime. The Middle Eastern claim that we wonâ??t or canâ??t fight on the ground is a myth. And America, not the Orwellian Arab Street, is the catalyst for democratic reform. Looming on the horizon are Iraqi archives, the evidence of weapons of mass destruction, and a happy liberated populace that Europe would have otherwise left well enough alone to profit from its overseers. The United Nations has lost its soft spot in the hearts of Americans, and is more likely to appease dictators than aid consensual governments. The general-secretary should be scrambling madly before the armistice to win our good graces â?? never has American support for the U.N. been lower, even as a U.N. resolution has never been better enforced at almost no cost to its general membership. The debate has now spun out of control and questions not merely of our own membership but also the very propriety of the residence of the General Assembly headquarters in New York. And as for Britain, Australia, Spain, Denmark, Italy, and a host of Eastern European countries who are rolling down the tracks with us, waving to the exasperating at the station, we have to show them as much appreciation for their stalwart courage as we do abject disdain for the duplicity of their peers behind. The world is upside down and we should expect some strange scenes of scrambling in the weeks ahead as side-glancing diplomats and nail-biting envoys flock to meet Mr. Powell in Washington, who â?? far from fearing those recent idiotic calls for his resignation â?? will in fact emerge as one of the most effective and powerful secretaries in recent history. Such are the ironies of war. It will all be an interesting show.
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Ex-CIA director: U.S. faces 'World War IV' http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/03/sprj.irq.woolsey.world.war/index.html LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Former CIA Director James Woolsey said Wednesday the United States is engaged in World War IV, and that it could continue for years. In the address to a group of college students, Woolsey described the Cold War as the third world war and said "This fourth world war, I think, will last considerably longer than either World Wars I or II did for us. Hopefully not the full four-plus decades of the Cold War. . . . ." _________________
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Subject: Clint Black song It has sound . http://www.poofcat.com/iraq1.html Click here: Iraq & Roll http://www.poofcat.com/iraq1.html The END ************************* LB 59
Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq People who want peace fight with the cops. People who support the war and our troops are peaceful. Interesting.
Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq You make a good point. It's a shame that the ultra-radical protesters cause all that noise. It gives a bad name to those opposed to the war; sorta the way Jerry Fallwell (spelling?) gives a horrible name to Christians everywhere (myself included).
Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq "sorta the way Jerry Fallwell (spelling?) gives a horrible name to Christians everywhere (myself included)." I don't know that when Jerry said that we "deserve" what happened to us on 9-11, that that is correct. But I do know that when a nation like ours begins to take God out of everything, and we as a nation allow the minority to dictate this Godless theme that is plagueing (sp?) us, the hand of the Lord begins to lift, and the curses begin to come. This is getting off the subject, but we as disciples of Jesus Christ must not stand for things like the removal of "under God", and the like, any longer.
Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq yikes. . . believe it or not. your beliefs ARE the minority. . . Yippee, know we can argue senselessly and with our brain-washed ideas about God, religion, and who's right, wrong, saved or damned! just be kind, compassoniate, and harmless. Everything else will take care of itself.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq I do not think his beliefs are the minority. If you substitute the name Jesus Christ with the name Allah you will have many similiarites. The one major difference is that Jesus hasn't been telling people to kill in his name.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq islandboy, not only are you ignorant on MANY, MANY things, i'm starting to think you're a troll. Have you ever heard of the Crusades, or Inquisition, or Nazi Germany, or Manifest Destiny and the genocide of millions of Native Americans or slavery in America? (shall i go on) Have you? All done in the name of the "christian god" .(which even the different denominations of christians can not agree upon) Again to make my point CRYSTAL CLEAR, SELFISH, BRAINWASHED PEOPLE COMMIT ALL KINDS OF HORRORS IN THE NAME OF "THEIR" GOD, BELIEFS, NATIONAL SECURITY, ETC. ETC. ETC. SUBSTITUTE ALL THAT FALSE "TRUTH" WITH KINDNESS, COMPASSION, HARMLESSNESS, AND A LIVE LET LIVE ATTITUDE AND NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN. which coincidentally is what ALL the founding members of these spiritual thoughts taught----unselfish, brotherly love comes before and above dogma, rules, tradition, etc. regarding whose "god" is right or if it even matters. Here, i'll post it again, since most people missed it the first time. ---------------------------- Hinduism 3200 BC, From the Hitopadesa- "One should always treat others as they themselves wish to be treated." Judaism 1300 BC, from the Old Testament, Leviticus 19:18- "Thou shalt Love thy neighbor as thyself." Zoroastrianism 600 BC, From the Shast-na-shayast 13:29- "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself, do not do unto others." Buddhism 560 BC, From the Udanavarga 5:18- "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself." Confucianism 557 BC, From the Analects 15:23- "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others." Christianity 30 AD, From the King James Version , 7:12- "Whatsoever ye would that others should do to you, do ye even so to them." Islam 570 AD, From the Traditions of Mohammed, "No one of you is a believer until he loves for his neighbor what he loves for himself."
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq oh, by the way, for those who label themselves Christians. here's the NEW and ONLY commandment that was meant to abolish all the old 'rules' and dogma, and was meant to be the only sign of a "true" believer. "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; As I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." [Gospel of John, King James Bible version]
Here we go... Ouch. Just because people kill in the name of Allah doesn't mean (Allah) wants them to. As humblemarc has pointed out, "Christians" have slaughtered MILLIONS of people in the name of Christ. I don't think you could find anyone to agree that Jesus wanted that done. Christianity is about love, acceptance, and non-violence. How wonderful the world will be when all "Christians" figure this out.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq well OH HUMBLE ONE this discussion in about recent history. Like the last decade or so. For some who is so HUMBLE you sure like to call people names and you are quite judgemental. And for someone who seeks the "Truth" is it not true that the Islamic Militants pose more of a threat to our way of life than Fundamental Christians? Man the folks over at CREDITBOARDS should rethink your appointment as moderator considering how emotional you get when someone does not agree with you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq islandboy, once again you confuse intensity and a refusal to accept ignorance with some emotional attribute you think you "feel" through the internet waves. and once again, you continue to act like a child. I am defining HOW you act, not what you ARE. Note the distinction. And once again, you refuse to actually admit some validity to my arguments by engaging in personal attacks on me, and refusing to acknowledge or refute the argument at hand, like a truly mature person might try. plain and simple, throughout this thread, you have made many misleading and inaccurate arguments that are easily corrected by doing RESEARCH and WANTING to find the truth, not just whatever suits one's opinion. since, you're the one who obviously has a problem with me and my post on a personal level, feel free to put me on ignore, or better yet, open your mind for a split second, so that you might learn something new. Also, don't be so egotistical to think that my threads are speaking to you or even about you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 out of 3 French people want Iraq Now to answer your questions. again, people who really really, lack humility always seem to have problems with me. and all of them have been either disruptive or trolls. maybe you should ask yourself, what it is i'm saying that seems to bother you so much. No one else seems to get nearly as disturbed by it as you do
