3rd Judgement, Please Help

Glad you told me you live in Florida because in most other states those 1988 judgments would long ago have passed SOL for collection activity and would now be worthless. Not so in Florida where the Statute of Limitations is 20 years on a judgment.

In a sense, the 1995 affidavit is of no value unless we know what that document is and what it said in it. An affidavit is not a judgment but rather a sworn statement made by someone to bring evidence or testimony before the court. It is important but without knowing what that affidavit said I can't comment on that.

The Notice Of Taking Deposition In Aid Of Execution Duces Tecum may not be all that proper. Normally it is a subpeona Duces Tecum and that is what this one appears that it might be judging by the way it is phrased. You may not even be a proper victim of a subpeona duces tecum because the purpose of such a subpeona is not for use as an additional means of discovery. Instead, its purpose is to expidite trials by allowing parties to obtain and evaluate certain documentary evidence before trial.

Charles E. Torcia, 2 Wharton's Criminal Procedure Sec. 335 (13th ED. 1990)

If a defendant (or plaintiff) can show
1. That the documents are evidentiary and relevant.
2. that they are not otherwise procurable by the defendant(or plaintiff) reasonably in advance of trial by exercise of due diligence,
3. that the defendant(or plaintiff) cannot properly prepare for trial without such production and inspection in advance of trial and the failure to obtain such inspection may tend to unreasonably delay the trial. 4. that the application is made in good faith and is not intended as a general fishing expeddition.
U.S. v. Iozia 13 F.R.D. 335, 338 (D.C.N.Y. 1952)
then advance production will be granted.

However, under Rule 17(h), Statements made by witness or prospective witness may not be subpoenaed for the government of the defendant/plaintiff under this rule, but shall be subject to production only in accordance with the provisions of Rule 26.2.

So if we study that, the plaintiff seems to be basically saying he may not be able to complete his case against you without forcing you to produce certain documents and records which he is unable to obtain under other circumstances or by other more reasonable means.

So the question(s) become what is it that he cannot obtain by any other means, is he merely on an unreasonable fishing expedition, and can you be forced to produce documents and records.

That would depend on exactly what documents and records he is fishing for since there are usually only a limited number of documents and records that could be reasonably expected of you. So what are they?

Among the most usual documents they want are motor vehicle titles, bank statements over a given period of time, current and past income tax records for a specified length of time, current or past employers, deeds and titles to any real estate or other tangible property that you may own or have an interest in, information about any stocks, bonds or insurance policies that you may have, things like that.

You would have to produce any motor vehicle titles that show you are the owner of and of course you would also want to provide proof of how much you owe on those vehicles.

You would have to give evidence or testimony about any current or past employers they care to know about and what your current wages or salary might be from such employment.

But the best answer to their demand for most of the rest of the questions they might care to ask is:
I am unaware of any law that requires me to to keep income tax returns. Please show me the statute that requires me to keep them as I never keep them.

I am unaware of any law that requires me to keep any books or records and I never do. What law requires me to keep any books or records?

I am unaware of any law that requires me to keep old bank statements and I never do. Please show me the law that requires me to keep old bank statements.

Any questions that you can logically answer that way can be answered that way because of course there are not such laws.

I have given you the basic concepts of subpeona deuces tecum and maybe you ought to analyze that and try to determine whether or not you actually are a proper subject of such a subpeona. If not then maybe you might want to file a motion to strike or quash based on the grounds that you are not a fit and proper subject of such a subpeona or that their demands are unwarranted and unreasonable.

I'm sure that if you study the purposes and intents of a subpeona duces tecum you might be able to find a valid way to fight it off.

There are an awful lot of angles and strategies to all court motions and briefs and one just has to do his homework and see what can be done about them and how to go about it.

But yes, if their subpeona withstands any objections you might be able to raise you will have to go to court and you will have to answer their questions one way or another. It just strikes me as a bit strange that they would go so far as to demand subpeona duces tecum when there are other means to accomplish the same thing. If you don't comply, don't answer and don't go to court you can be arrested and thrown in jail until you do on a contempt of court charge. So don't fail to show up for court well prepared to meet the challenge.

Apparently what they are really after is just a plain and simple deposition hearing. Seems like a lot of overkill to me.

 

What is the amount of judgement or money in question?

 

Florida Judgments changed several years ago to 7 years,renewable for up to 20.

I have NO idea what the papers are that you received, however I suggest you get a lawyer to help you.

If it was/is Barnett Bank that you received the new papers from, I would suspect that this is NOT for a $$ judgment but rather having to do with some real estate quiet title suit.

If it was NOT Barnett, than more than likely it is a scam scum garbage collection agency operating illegally.

 

The assignment you mention means that they legally assigned the judgment to Palm Coast Recovery Corp. so they could do the actual collection of the debt.

The assignment legally gives Palm Coast Recovery full legal right and title to the judgment and anything that might be recovered from it.

This sometimes means that Palm Coast Recovery bought the debt. Judging from the name, Palm Coast Recovery is probably a judgment recovery service which also could mean that they are simply collecting on a percentage basis. Most judgment recovery services work on a percentage basis unless they can buy the judgment very cheaply.

Most likely the reason for their demanding subpeona dueces tecum is because it has been so long ago since they came into possession of the judgment by whatever means that they no longer have the information they would normally need or like to have so are trying to force you to give it to them without their having to do any real work.

Judgment recovery services are very different from normal collection agencies even though they basically do the same work.

So the assignment tells us that they obtained the debt in 1988 and are now coming after you for that debt.

While they do have 20 years to apply for judgment under Statute of Limitations there is also a second statute of limitations once the judgment has been granted in most states. That SOL may be shorter or longer or the same as the SOL for them to obtain the judgment in the first place so you might want to do some research to find out about that in Florida.

Palm Coast Recovery probably operates out of Palm Beach or elsewhere in Palm County Florida.

So there you have it. Now you should pretty well understand the whole thing.

I seriously doubt that it would do you any good to hire an attorney because there is little or nothing he can do to defend you from this action.

Even if you managed to get it quashed or struck because of wrongful application of legal process it wouldn't do you a lot of good because they would only amend their pleading and refile it again.

The only chance you might have would be to file motion to vacate judgment and you would have to do quite a bit of study to hope to get that done.

Regardless of the howls of derision that will probably be generated because of this statement, I did see some conversations about that on the collectionindustry.com forum a few days ago although I didn't pay much attention to it.

Your best bet is to go to the hearing ready to answer the questions you can't get around answering. In the end it probably won't be all that bad anyway. The judge might ask you if you brought your papers and you tell him that you brought your car titles and such and he will probably tell you to go to some conference room or out in the hall with the attorney and try to work something out.

Just try to get through it with the least amount of loss that you can, answer the most questions you can and once this hearing is over you can see what you can do to put a stop to any future actions they might come up with.

You may very well stand a fair chance of getting the judgment vacated if you can find a severe fault with it since there is little chance that Barnett Bank could come forward with any actual proof of the debt after so many years.

 

I do not believe any action to reopen a judgment that expired is valid. The 20 years is for action on a service that has already BEEN sent to the sheriff's office,and the new Fl Lien law of 2001 required any existing liens to be refiled in Tal. by Oct. 2003, so I do not think any such request for discovery is valid.

Go to your Courthouse, find out if the "letter" you received was entered into your case file, and find out the current status of any judgment you may have.

Or, go to my website, click n Fl., scroll to the bottom, click on the link to Fl. Liens and see IF they refiled your judgment in time.

I believe this is a fake and a fraud and completely illegal, however, it is easy enough to check out with your Courthouse.

 

I concur with whychat on everything she has said above. In reposting I did take out the word "OR" and replaced it with (xxxx) meaning I think you may want to do both.

Then I'm adding in my answer to this question :

They also included a letter saying:
Notice To Judgment Debtor
You have been Noticed to appear for a Deposition to discover all your financial information. Prior to appearing you have an opportunity to resolve this matter by settlement. Please call me at the above telephone number at your earliest convenience.
If that paper isn't entered into your court files at the court house then you may want to ask an attorney if that doesn't constitute a sham legal process. I'd look it over to see if it has any actual court stamps on it and if it don't then take it along when you go to the courthouse and see if it is in the file they have on you at the courthouse. If it has stamps on it that make it appear that it has been filed but isn't actually in the file you should ask the clerk if those are actual court stamps or not. Its a long shot but checking on that might pay off for you.
Courts aren't too happy if a sham legal process has taken place.

The subpoena says that they are the "Attorneys for Judgment Assignee, Palm Coast Recovery Corp."
We are to go not to the courthouse but to Associated Court Reporters and bring bank statements, deeds, titles etc.
That's what got my suspicions up. A subpeona that isn't clearly marked as being what it is? A subpeona that demands you show up at some other place other than at a court of law? It might be done that way in Florida but not in most other places. It is usually done in court and in front of a judge.

So every time they bring judgment against me does that restart the 20 year clock?
According to what you have posted they haven't brought any new judgments since 1988 so the judgment isn't a new one. On top of that and according to why chat they changed the laws on judgments during the last few years and I've heard that before. If so then the question has to become whether or not the old judgments were grandfathered in under the new law. Sometimes that happens and sometimes it don't but if old judgments are grandfathered in then there usually has to be a statement to that effect in the new law. That raises up the question of whether you want to argue about that or not because if the new law is worse than the old one then you might want to argue that these judgments still fall under the old law and the 20 years don't apply. You would absolutely have to see a lawyer to find out about that, much less argue about it. And if you argue about it you might end up in a mess of legal appeals that wouldn't be any fun either.

We can't give you legal advice at all but only suggestions about things you might want to look for.

I think you should do some of the homework that we are suggesting here and go see a good lawyer.
You have just two options. Go see a good lawyer and find out if this can be fought on the basis of some of the things I have suggested or just go along with it and suffer the consequences.

Right now all I can say is that the whole thing sounds fishy to me as you have described it but you can't afford to ignore it either.

 

That starts to make more sense than the judgment recovery I spoke about previously.

I know about Palm Beach Recovery, Inc. They are in West Palm Beach, Florida. They do some mortgage stuff too but their main business seems to be repos of vehicles and that fits with what you said above.

 

This appears to be a flagrant violation of the FDCPA (fake legal proccess)

The tipoff is that they want you to go to their office, and not the Court.

You can get some help from the Fl. page of my website,e-mail "The Avenger" for assistance, he will help you file a comlaint against these thieves.

Or try the NACA website at the top of my Home page.

File a compaint with the FTC and the Fl. Attorney General's office and the Fl Bar Association too.

 

Re: Re: 3rd Judgement, Please Help

Not that difficult to understand at all. Florida just changed the way they handle judgments is about all.

It is a procedural change and that is about all it really is. You ask if that is all they can take from you now. The way you find that out is to check with the Florida Department of State to see if they filed a judgment lien with the Florida Department of State.

Why not look into the idea of seeing whether or not it might be vacatable as a void judgment?