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Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by funnyboy, Mar 29, 2000.
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The seven year clock can start over. Some companies have personnel soley devoted to making sure that an unpaid debt be kept on forever. Most companies will not report on the debt until 6 and 11 months later, and the 7 year clock start ticking all over again. It it better to have a paid debt (no matter how late) and have it disappear after 7 years, than to have an unpaid debt that will stay on forever.
funnyboy -Donna's answer is misleading. First of all, an unpaid debt will not stay on your report forever. The clock cannot be re-cycled ad infinitum. Before the Amendment to the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) in 1996, such hi-jenks did actually occur. It was this kind of abuse that brought about the 1996 Amendment, and it *specifically* forbids such re-aging of accounts.
It goes away 7 years after the "date of original delinquency" (usually referred to as "date of last activity" on your reports). The 7 year clock starts 180 days AFTER the delinquency which initiated the charge-off or collection placement, AND YOU NEVER AGAIN BECAME CURRENT (very important caveat). The creditor and its agents are required to specify this date when reporting to the bureaus. Here's an example:
You went delinquent on FEB of 1993. It doesn't matter if it was posted in MAR of 1993 or JAN of 2000---the original delinquency date is FEB of 1993, and THAT is the date (technically it is 180 days AFTER FEB 1993, but the bureaus generally accept just the "raw date" ) that the 7 year clock is based upon, and BY LAW (FCRA), THAT is the date the collector MUST report. If you never paid this, it would fall off FEB of 2000. Now HERE is the thing to watch out for: the FCRA states a provision, "...and is never again brought current" (paraphrase). Taking the example further, suppose you had made arrangements in JUL of 1996, with the collector to pay this debt off, and you sent them a good-faith payment. You have then, effectively, BROUGHT THE ACCOUNT CURRENT again, by mutual consent. In essence you have re-negotiated your old debt INTO A BRAND NEW ONE WHICH CAN NOW BE POSTED in JUL of 1996, thus extending your 7 year clock out to JUL of 2003. I think this is what Donna meant to say.
Moral obligations aside concerning debt repayment, you run a risk by trying to pay a debt after it is in charge-off. Do NOT take ANYONE's word (mine, Donna's etc.) on these boards for THE answer. First of all, even if you are in the right, an unscrupulous collector and incompetence by creditors and the bureaus can lead to a NIGHTMARE lasting years for you. Below are the links for a SUMMARY of consumer rights under the FCRA, and the full text of the FCRA, itself. Section 605 specifically deals with the 7 year clock and its limitations.
Also, if you intend to pay off your 3.5 year old debt, research on negotiating to have the entry removed entirely by the creditor as a condition of your payment. Alternatively, you get them to promise IN WRITING not to respond to any requests for verification from the burreaus. This will let you dispute the entry, the CRA will try to verify it, the Collector does NOT confirm it (by your agreement), and it is deleted BY LAW. DO NONE OF THESE THINGS EXCEPT IN WRITING SIGNED BY AN AUTHORIZED AGENT!!!!! There is a wealth of information on the web about negotiating improved positions with collectors. Do NOT pay anything until you have gotten as much out of them (for your benefit) as possible. Never forget, the most important thing for them is to GET THE MONEY. Remember, the moment you pay them, you have LOST ALL LEVERAGE to get them to do anything at all. End of story.
A couple of my favorite sources are:
The last one is "Ask Max" at Experian, and she actually DOES give very detailed and accurate information concerning the 7 year clocks.
RE: 7 year itch (is meaningles
I am suit at this very moment with trial scheduled for one week from now against a company that went ahead and actually did what you stated cannot be done. This company reported as current collection accounts to Trans Union three accounts of mine that had been written off in 1991. Each of these 3 accounts had been on my Trans Union reportfor the required 7 years. During 1999, this company went ahead and reported these three accounts to Trans Union in its own name. This lawsuit is a matter of public record at No. AR00-278 in the Court of Common Pleas of Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. I am seeking my ascertainable damages, plus the greater of treble my actual damages or $100.00, plus punitive damages, plus my reasonable attirney's fees, plus court costs. Another Pennsylvania case standing for the proposition that a Court or jury has the right to award a successful Plaintiff in a case like this brought under our Consumer Protection Statute is reported at 7 F. Supp 2d 589 (a 1998 decision) in case you or your lawyers want to chech this out.
March 29, 2000
Now I am not sure what Mo is talking about but if you dispute or have a credit reporting agency look at an item the date rolls back and it will show that activity was done on that date and you will have to wait 7 years from the date you had them look into the debt. Don't dispute it and don't try to pay a little of the debt pay it all or leave it. Trust me I know when I had things on my credit report that was not right and had equifax look at it they changed the date to the date they looked at it and it would be 7 years from then.
Look ay my comment in this link "(its meaningless to some)" posted at 10:07 Pacific Time today.
I have never had a credit bureau start the seven year clock over again as of the date that they looked into something for me.
RE: 7 year itch (is meaningles
You should be suing the credit bureau, not
the reporter of the information. I haven't
had any problems at all with TransUnion and
the dates, Experian was the bureau that had
lots of false dates, but they deleted the
incorrect info as soon as I complained.
MBA is right and Sterperfly is dead wrong. disputing an entry does NOT reset the 7 year clock. It will change the "date last updated" date on your report. This data field refers to the last time the credit bureau received information on that record. Again, I reiterate: The 7-year clock is tied to the "date of original delinquency". It is all very clearly laid out in the FCRA, which I referenced.
This is NOT to say that a crditor won't TRY to submit an improper date, or that an error can't occur. It is saying, however, that if this were to happen, you have a clearly defined procedural and legal path to rectify it.
RE: 7 year itch (is meaningles
I see why MBA is suing, and I hope he wins BIG time!
Under normal circumstances, all it should take is sending documentation of the original date of delinquency (but how many people have such docs around after 7 years??)to the CRA. It should be automatic from there. But as we know, these sort of things get screwed up more often than not.
I am not wrong. I am looking at a credit report dated 10/98 it shows a credit card that was date reported 9/98. Then I look at a credit report dated 1/2000 and the date reported changed to 10/99 so do not tell me that the date does not change when you dispute the item the report date is changed and the 7 year itch starts from that new date... It does not matter when the account was opened it matters when it was reported to the credit breau. Experian further reports even though I had this account since 97 it will not go away unitl 2006 now what does that tell you idiots who think you know everything and don't know jack!!!!! The proof is in font of my damn face and I am reporting it as I see it.
Still, dead wrong, Stuperfly. As I clearly explained, the "date reported" field and "date of last activity" serve different purposes. The latter is the date the "7-year clock" looks at. DISPUTES DO NOT RE-SET THE CLOCK. PERIOD.
As for wht Experian says about your 2006 problem, I do not dispute your having that. It is wrong, if you have explained your situation correctly. The CRA's, along with creditors, make more mistakes when they "fix" a problem than they solve. You "can't" murder someone, but it still happens. The CRA's or a creditor can't "re-age" an account in the manner you describe.....but, alas, it still happens. Again, if you re-read my post, you'll find that I said you have a clear & defined recourse to get your mistake fixed.
Now, stop calling people names when you think you've been slighted, and dispute your report correctly so that you get it corrected! Your anecdotal problem is simply one of the many tens of thousands of mistakes...it is not de facto proof of your assertion, WHICH I TELL YOU AGAIN, is wrong. Read the FCRA, section 605. Clear as a bell. Check into other credit forums...you'll see that the info I've given is correct.
Chill out Stuperfly. Mo is correct and you may be reading the data wrong and the Credit Bureau also may have erred in the date the adverse data expires (this happen often see www.vcr.org) Disputing an item DOES NOT revive the statute of limitations on reporting adverse data and whether you pay or not pursuant to the FCRA the longest period a credit bureau can report adverse data is 7 years from the date of last activity (generally this comes out to 7 1/2 years however when disputed generally gets "cloaked" by the Credit Bureau.
For more information try also "Money Troubles" by Attorney Robin Lenoard at Nolo press www.nolo.com or your local bookstore and have a martini for God's sake.
It does happen and yeah if you pay attenion to it you will see it as a mistake but what about those who don't see it until it is too late and they have to fight to get it corrected. It happens and I am saying if you don't dispute it will not be updated and the date will not change and it will go away. Dispute or even as a question about it and it is updated and stay 7 years from the date you updated that item.
Mo You are on target. Thanks for the well researched information that should prevent the misinformation coming out of this thread
OK then my date of activity has changed with each report. One time it is 8/96 then changed to 8/99 now what the hell does that mean? They changed the date with each update and it starts over again. Do you think people hold on to credit reports for 7 years to prove they are wrong on the dates?
The burdon of proof is on the creditor and they can be induced to provide documents stating the last date of activity. I would write them directly. (never call them from your home number they will capture that data) certified return receipt and request that information. You would also be well served to check out www.bendover.com Ben Dover has a book called "Fight Back" and other books and resources for wronged debtors and consumers. At 6pm easter I'll toast to your luck and have a martini myself. Get em dude!
If Experian is telling you that the debt will not come off of your credit report until the year 2006, think about this: was your account written off, or did it lapse into a default situation in 1999? I bet that something occurred in 1999. You opened your account in 1997 but it probably was in 1999 that the account went bad. 7 years from 1999 would be 2006 and the year 2006 should be the "disappear" date from your credit report no matter how many times you are in touch with Experian about it between 1999 and 2006. Of course, this assumes that the account went into default in 1999 and that Experian carries it on your report for 7 years.
Note this: I am not a lawyer. What I have stated above is my belief, and nothing more! I could very well be 100% wrong.
I note that persons writing to this message board seem to have copies of their current credit reports. This is good. It is suggested that whenever anyone gets his/her current credit report, that he/she look for entries that may appear in the name NCO or NCO Financial Services or NCO Great Trust. I have read that some people have learned of these entries on their credit reports FOR THE FIRST TIME upon seeing them on their credit reports. NCO may not write to each debtor informing of its involvement when it reports a debtor's account to a credit reporting agency. Also, I have heard from people who found that NCO entries on their credit reports (many of them appear as of December 1999) are duplicates of other accounts that they had with another creditor and which either still appear on the same credit report in the name of the original creditor or did appear on their credit reports in the name of the original creditor for 7 years and then came off.
I have filed suit against NCO to challenge its practice of reporting in its own name as a current account just recently in collection of an actual account that went into default long before.
Anyone wanting to know more about my lawsuit should feel free to e-mail me.
March 30, 2000
11:40 A.M. EST
sure do understand that. This is why I have spent a lot of time these past few years actually suing collection agencies who have blackened my credit. I have not sued any credit bureau (yet). However, I am guided by my lawyers and when I get the feeling that something is not "right" I make it a point to run it by them. I have some credit cards that I pay late, and these do appear on my credit report. In fact, I learned that some creditors give monthly reports. On one of my credit reports, it listed the name of one of my creditors and the date and amount of each payment I made over a two year period, and the current balance as of the date of each payment. I am told that a credit bureau can list a "good" account for just about forever, and it can list a delinquent account for 7 years. This is what I am told, so I believe it. And yes, I am very upset about this, as I know you are!