A new method of attack

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by bbauer, May 2, 2001.

  1. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Well, not actually a totally new method, but like many other methods probably has not been carried to it's logical conclusions. (Logical at least to me)

    The idea starts out with the filing of complaint against collection agencies, original creditors and even the credit bureaus with the BBB or the Better Business Bureaus. Yes, I know, that's old hat to most of us and now considered to be one more useless gesture. And in and of itself, it most likely is.

    But the Better Business Bureau website not only has facility to file on line complaint against those with whoum we are unhappy or involved in disputes with.

    We would normally expcet absolutely nothing at all to come of any such complaint filed with the BBB. But do we really care? I don't think so. Here is why.

    As an example, go over to the BBB website and use their search engine to look up a collection agency known as "Plaza Associates" of 378 Seventh Avenue, New York City, NY, 10001.

    And lo and behold, we find that this major national collection agency has had only 13 complaints during the preceeding year. I for one plan to increase that by at least 1 complaint. Then there will be 14 against them. And if a sufficient number of those having reason to complain against this company actually went to the BBB website and actually filed complaints against this company, would it not be feasable for that number to increase to maybe 114 within a short period of time? I think so. Just what do you think would be the result of a large number of such complaints upon the office staff of this company of having to answer so many complaints? It would most certainly put a hitch in their git-along, now wouldn't it? And that would cause them to be later than ever answering demands for validation, now wouldn't it? And that would give rise to even more complaints against them, wouldn't it?

    And what was the nature of the complaints lodged against them? Attempting to collect sums of money not due or owed.
    In other, plainer, easier to usderstand words, EXTORTION.
    Pure, plain and simple, it's 13 counts of attempted extortion. That just might be termed to be "an ongoing criminal enterprise", now mightn't it?? Violation of the Rico Act??? HMMMMMM!!!

    Well now, you would probably be hard pressed to say the least to get a U.S. District Attorney to listen to you trying to actually file a federal complaint on them for violation of the Rico Act, but on the other hand, the following just might cut some mustard.

    Dear Collection Agency.

    On March xx, 2001, I respectfully requested that you validate the account you claim to be collecting for Crowe, Birdbath & Co.

    Regetfully, instead of addressing my lawful request for validation of the debt, you have chosen instead to violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices act by sending me yet another letter demanding payment. This is a totally illegal act, but is in keeping with the rest of your criminal activities as evidenced by the many complaints of extrotion which have been filed against you in the past and which is a matter of public record.

    You have hereby violated both the law and my civil rights.
    What do you intend to do to rectify this abysmal conduct on your part?

    As a matter of courtesy, Yada Yada Yada Yada

    Please immediately cease and desist in making me a victim of your proveably ongong crimianl enterprise.


    And then go file a complaint against them for violation of the FDCPA and whatever else you think you can make stick

    If everyone would follow this practice, it would not take very long before the complaints piled up against them, and what do you think a judge would think of such a fine upstanding company if the evidence were presented in court when and if they dared go for a judgement?

    Bill Bauer
  2. Nave

    Nave Well-Known Member

    Use that line all the time...first time (only other time) I heard it was:

    "She has Quite a hitch in her git-along"
    - Tennessee Ernie Ford on I Love Lucy

    I guess you could say the show is timeless!

    BBB reporting is a great idea Bill. Thanks for letting me know about the ease of submitting an online complaint too...I will be filling out some asap.

  3. NanaC

    NanaC Well-Known Member

    I've actually had success with the BBB on inquiries..go figure..
  4. CardKid

    CardKid Well-Known Member

    Gulf State should be first on the list.
  5. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    This was not an original idea of mine.
    Another person related how much success he has had with making complaints to the BBB among other things.

    Once he told me about his successes, I went to checking out the BBB and it's website and I decided to check out a collection agency that I happen to know about. Low and behold, 13 complaints for attempting to collect sums of money not due or owed.

    A bit of thinking about that and the rest just came naturally. It has to be a winner once the validation phase is over and the attack phase has begun, regardless of how the attack phase starts, either by their action or inaction whichever the case may be.

    Most usually, the attack phase comes as a result of an action by the creditor or the colection agency.

    The attack phase is always clearly defined, and should always be initiated by you after it's having been instigated by them.It should always follow the validation phase and should be ongoing during the validation process.

    One should never send more than one validation letter to a creditor or a collection agency.

    Bill Bauer
  6. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Do you have an ongoing situation with Gulf States?
    If so, go over to the BBB website and see what their record is. It most likely isn't all that pretty, but I don't know one way or the other.

    If you have something going that is at the proper stage where this could be used, then use it. But file a complaint or two on them anyway if you have grounds.

    Bill Bauer
  7. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    A devastating new method of attack

    The credit bureaus are apparently extremely sensitive to their image with the BBB. I just filed my first complaint last night and plan to follow with many more against credit bureaus as well as collection agencies.

    The better collection agencies are also apparently quite sensitive to complaints because creditors will look to see which are the best companies for their future use.

    Imagine a 100 word statement on a credit report file stating that "this collection agency has a long and evil history of criminal actions against debtors listed with BBB who has hundreds of unanswered complaints listed against this company.

    Just how many creditors would use the collection agency after seeing a 100 word statement like that listed against them, possibly multiple times on different reports they get.

    There are many ways to use this tatic.
  8. judyputy

    judyputy Well-Known Member

    Re: A devastating new method of attack


    How are what did you use to search for any reports on Experian? I can't seem to get the site to do a search for Experian and must not be using the right area. I would like to leave a complaint, but also see what else was said about them by others.

  9. jason

    jason Well-Known Member

    Great idea, Bill!!

    I'll suggest that Lexington Complete tests it out on a few clients. I bet it works.

  10. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: A devastating new method of attack

    I just looked up Equifax, not any of the others as of yet.
    The report for Equifax stated that they had satisfactorily resolved all complaints.

    I seriously doubt that they have many for the simple reason that most folks would not think to file complaints with BBB about them. Now then, if that probable fact were to drastically change as a result of our talking about it here in this forum, giving them say hundreds of complaints in a relatively short period of time, how well would they respond to that?? I think it's going to be very interesting trying to find out. What do you think?

    Then there is also the other possibility that they do receive lots of complaints and do answer them satisfactorily in each and every case in an attempt to keep a good name with the BBB. The question still remains the same. If they were to receive a multitude of complaints, how well would they be able to answer them?? How much of their staff time would be required to answer them? How long might it take before they could no longer answer all of them so satisfactorily and thereby start to fall into disfavor with the BBB??

    Again, I think that it would be interesting to find out. Hey, what have we got to lose compared to what might be gained for all?

    Sound interesting enough to at least talk it up on this and other forums? See what happens? I seriously doubt that we will find any shortage of folks willing to complain.

    Bill Bauer
  11. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Please hasten to do so! Please tell them that you and I both think this is an idea that has merit and that I certainly hope they use the heck out of it.

    Be my guest!
    Break a leg! (LOL)

    Yes, I am serious. I think it's an outstanding idea and that if Lexington, Junum or any of the others agree and chose to use it, let them feel free to do so with my blessings.

    Bill Bauer
  12. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    You know that this is really the only form of action that we can take that can damage their good name much like they feel like its ok to damage ours. Wonderful idea, but I wonder if it is something that you want to do to collection agencies that you owe a debt to? Anyways its a great plan of action and I think I will implement it. After all the regulatory agencies like the FTC cant really do anyting until their is enough complaints to file class action suits against these giant CRA's.

    Great THinkin!
  13. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Does one really want to do that to a collection agency that one owes money to?

    One of the things that I teach in Creditwrench is how to put collection agencies in such a bind that they can not function, and may in fact just pay off the debt rather than to face the possible legal consequences of their often illegal practices.

    Just one example is that of a company called EMCC INC. that attempted to claim that they had bought a purported debt of mine from another company formerly known as XCOM. You may have heard of them. I demanded validation of the purported debt, and EMCC INC responded with a second demand for payment after having been ordered to cease and desist from any further contact with me absent demanded validation.
    That constitited their first mistake. I immediately notified them of their transgression and filed complaint with the FTC and with the Attorney General's of both Oklahoma and Massachussets as well as the Better Business Bureau. Their reply was to "sell" the debt to NCO Financial Systems, a subsidiary of theirs. I immediately filed complaints with the FTC for illegal use of multiple business names under FDCPA in order to coerce collection and again filed with the AG's of the two states and the BBB. I also threatened legal action in a court of law.

    They responded with a letter stating that although they admit no guilt, they had "forgiven" the debt and I owed them nothing at all. They also stated that they would advise the credit bureaus of the action.

    Sure enough, when I pulled my credit reports, they had reported the debt under still another business name, EMCC XCOM. I immediately filed complaints with the BBB, The FTC, the AG's from the two states and additionally filed complaint with the U.S. Postal Inspector for attempted extortion of monies not due and using the U.S. Mail to defraud. I also have filed criminal charges against them today with the U.S. District Attorney's office here in Oklahoma City for extortion, racketeering, and violation of the Rico Act as well as mail fraud.

    Would I file complaints against a company I actually owed money to? Would a wild bear raid a honey tree? Would an alligator kill fish and eat them in the swamp?

    What do you think.

    The whole point, however, is that in creditwrench, I teach exactly how to trap these cockroaches and put them out of their misery (or mine) if at all possible.

    Bill Bauer
  14. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Here is a copy of the wording used in my last complaint to the FTC

    EMCC INC has used at least 4 different business names in their efforts to extort sums of money not due or owed.
    They have used the following:
    NCO Financial Systems
    X.COM's PayPal & sent check for one penny in attempt to create legal obligation where none actually existed.
    X.COM/First Western National Bank

    When I demanded validation of the purported indebtedness which they were unable to provide, they "sold" the bogus account to NCO FINANCIAL Systems and the demand letter they sent even admitted that NCO FINANCIAL Systems was owned by EMCC INC.

    All of the above is in direct violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

    Please take whatever action possible against these criminals and please inform me what criminal charges would be applicable in order to facilitate complaint to the U>S. District Attorney's office for possible criminal action against their fraudulent attempts to extort sums of money not due or owed.

    Billie Bauer
  15. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    That is amazing information about your past experience. I was just wandering because I am a lttle afraid of getting debt validated by the collection agencies. It seems make my chances slimmer to getting it removed, but you seem to have tactics that can combat this. Can you elaborate a little more about this or tell me how to participate in this Creditwrench program or board that you are refering to. This sounds like the way to fight. Please reply.

  16. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Of course, I cannot guarantee that you will actually get your debt cancelled in every case for the simple reason that this company claims to have bought the debt from the original owner and apparently they did otherwise they would not have been in a position to just wipe it out or at least claim to have wiped it out. It is not inconceiveable however that an original creditor might well decide that to fight a hard legal battle in court where they had already been proven guilty of multiple violations of law might be much more costly than what it would cost them to forgive the debt and forget about it. So it could happen.

    May I suggest that you visit my website at

    and do whatever you wish from there.

    Bill Bauer
  17. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    I beat you to it by doing a search. It is good to see that you are putting your knowledge to good use in our capitlastic society.

  18. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

  19. Crdt Dfnse

    Crdt Dfnse Well-Known Member

    While I donâ??t aim to necessarily come off condescending here, I must say I find your comments (above) completely unrealistic. Meaning, by your own admission in several posts many of your theories are untested and thus unreliable. Moreover, I sense you lack the skills and practical knowledge required to deliver whatâ??s promised. Having stated this, please understand Iâ??m not trying to put you (or your product) down per se; only demonstrate a pointâ?¦

    Collection agents have one purpose and one only, to defend profit! The vast majority are law abiding, and certainly not folks to be toyed with. Purporting to consumers that youâ??ve the skill to â??put collection agencies in such a bind that they can not functionâ? â?? in light of self-contradicting admissions; is highly questionable. Further (and hereâ??s where my greatest concern rests), such statements play on fear and stereotypic inaccuracies that do the consumer no good whatsoever! In fact it harms them by giving a false sense of security, which not only can but most probably will lead to trouble.

    Hereâ??s the deal, Bill. I like the fact you take the time to post here and other places. MUCH of your info isnâ??t all that bad and makes logical sense most of the time. But when you purport to have some scoop, Iâ??m very certain you donâ??t, I take issue as a (court agent and) consumer advocate; itâ??s nothing personal. Truly, if you knew half about collection agents, as your statement above tends to lead, it wouldnâ??t have been made in the first place.

    Now if Iâ??ve somehow misunderstood you, Iâ??ll be the first to offer apologies. Which is to say, Iâ??m open to reading your rational and coherent explanation(s). Iâ??ve optimism you offer just that and nothing more (from an emotional perspective), as Iâ??m not here to argue. Because truly, you may have simply over-stated the facts perhaps in your zeal to help others. Nonetheless, hell is paved with good intentions of the well meaning... And those who follow them.
  20. Saar

    Saar Banned


    Care to elaborate?


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