...yeah, I know we weren't, but, after my sour grapes of non-approval got settled in my mouth and I used a little Listerine to get the taste out (got declined by Generations you see)...I got to thinking.... Why would you NOT report on the bureaus? See, the bank in our small town used to be this way (non-reporting)--don't know if it was because they were lazy, stupid--or what. Now they report. Now we have a bank (Generations) that takes some apparent pride in non-reporting--pardon? What's your goal here? I always get pissed when I think of a credit extender scoring off the bureaus to deem your worthiness/worthlessness (LOL), but when it comes time for THEM to report--well, that just doesn't suit (and their reasons are moot to me). To me, either you participate, or you don't, simple as that. Don't want to report to the bureaus? Fine, then don't do an inquiry, and manually reveiw my application, tradeline by tradeline. And--I know SOME of you like the feature of "hiding debt", but really, I don't---really. If I have to hide debt to incur more debt (or credit--not necessarily debt)--then something about my money management protocols may need a tune-up. And another thing--I've read some of the posts that say "oh (I'm the Generations bank rep here)...we approved you for a $1K limit VISA--or a balance transfer limit of $11,000--which do you prefer?". Isn't that just a little on the crazy side--reminds me of going to a restaurant, ordering the buffet, and having the server tell you you can take the whole buffet home in your trunk if you sign this contract to eat breakfast, supper, and lunch here for the next 20 years. OK, not the greatest analogy--but I tried. Cheers, David (weekends a comin')
David, Your post was very "on target", & really don't see why anyone would care to have their business. It has never been something that made me "blink" to think of applying,but that is just me. Great post.... Sister Girl
Re: And speaking of Generations Ban David, the reason they don't report is simply because they aren't a full subscriber to the three bureaus. Rather, they are a limited subscriber -- they use the bureaus to check the credit worthiness of potential applicants only. They may also pay additional subscription fees to report derogatory accounts, but I'm not sure what Generations does in this respect. By not fully subscribing, they save money. You made a few points with which I didn't agree (paraphrased): 1) We shouldn't value "hidden" credit since that means that there's obviously something wrong with the way we manage money. Um, huh? Actually, perhaps it suggests the exact opposite: identifying methods of using "hidden" credit actually suggests a savviness that allows even greater savings elsewhere. Since balances on accounts with non-reporting creditors don't negatively impact FICO scores, it makes perfectly good sense to use such creditors whenever you are about to finance a large purchase such as a house or vehicle. Lower FICO scores often result in better terms. 2) There is no benefit to doing business with a non-reporting creditor. Um, yeah, right. You can insert the explication from point #1 above here; same logic applies. 3) If they don't report, then they aren't entitled to pull our credit. This is ridiculous. These people are LOANING you their money. They don't OWE you the privilege of borrowing their money. This is not some public utility to which everyone is equally entitled. Moreover, the terms of your application grants them the right to check your past repayment history, and applicants agree to those terms. If you decide to loan out your money, you'll also have the right to decide who you want to loan to, and you'll get to define your criteria (excepting certain categories of demographic discrimination). Sorry, but after reading your posting, I couldn't withhold my disagreement. Doc
Re: And speaking of Generations Ban Doc, I gotta agree with you. I really like Generations bank, and I am pleased that they don't report. I don't use the account alot. Right now with interest rates so low, 9.9% is kinda high. But if interest rates went up I would certainly use the card more. Having the hidden line a credit allows me to "hide" my debt so that I can get better bt offers (because of a higher score when creditors do a/r inquiries) so that I can pay my debt off sooner.
Re: And speaking of Generations Ban I'm sorry PhsyDoc--were you the customer service rep that declined me yesterday? Just kidding---LOL. As far as hidden credit goes (and, I don't just play a lender on TV--I really am one)--from a LENDERS standpoint--assuming the consumer doesn't disclose said hidden account up front--then your true income/debt ratio (and possible payment habits/history) is distorted on your application. You said it yourself--Generations is checking my creditworthiness (or worthlessness--again, only joking) from a bureau with an incomplete, inaccurate, picture of my debts (particularly in the internet/score it now/instant approval age we are in). In my estimation, I would assume Generations is "banking" on the assumption that all other tradelines are being reported--and being reported accurately. Otherwise, they wouldn't live and die as it were by their score--in other words, a little more manual review investigation might be in order. And, while we're on this particular subject of non-reporting (and I encourage anyone to do a search on this subject), more than one lender (particularly subprime mortgage lenders) received some very unfavorable press in the last two to three years for NOT reporting tradelines--GreenTree comes to mind. There are tangible benefits to the lender for not reporting---you lock and hide your customers from competing lenders/credit grantors to decrease the risk of being paid off/having your customer offered better terms (and that ain't theory). And having a well handled, fully correctly reporting revolving tradeline will only increase your FICO--at least after the initial newness wears off--that is, unless you've got way too many open revoling accounts to start with. Not reporting--Generations saves money? I'm sure it does--but I highly doubt its the driving force behind their decision. So--to me--if you're gonna fish from the big FICO pond--you better have your fishing license and report your catch (sorry, my analogies are really bad today). So, no--I stand by my opinion (root word: opine)--you don't report, you don't deserve to score my credit citizenship for your own application. You're right--they don't owe me anything, and it is indeed "ridiculous" to think they owe me a credit card just because I asked (well, maybe in my fantasy world--but that's another post) and they have every right to check my credit history--and my history can be checked trade by trade and phone call by phone call--kinda like they used to do on the mortgage apps from not so many years ago. And I don't begrudge any customer of theirs--each credit card holder has their favorites--me included. My biggest concern still, however is the hugely disproportionate credit limits offered to customers with a $10K B/T offer in one hand or a $1K simple credit line in the other. I said in my original post, there's some sour grapes goin' on on this end--but I truly am glad (I know, ya prolly don't believe me) that I didn't get it AFTER I had a chance to think about it. Now, the weekend is here-- Cheers, David P.S. If people want their debt hidden, that doesn't mean that I'm accusing them outright of mismanagement of money--I merely suggested it could point to potential problems--lets not go down the "slippery slope" as it were. Now, gotta go tackle that new washer from Sears (I think it has more controls than my DVD player)
Re: And speaking of Generations Ban David- Both you and Doc argue good points. You are looking at non-reporting from a subprime perspective - and yes, lots of lenders did some bad stuff with refi-s and equity loans. But the point most of us have made about "hidden credit" is that FICO scores can get dinged - sometimes by 30-50 points (note people who have reported jumps in rates) - even for short-term usage. It's nice to have a "hidden" line that you can tap without jeopardizing your other rates. As for the limit thing - that's commonplace now. Nextcard did it - Citi and Amex have done it - it's a way to quickly build up a portfolio versus waiting for people to charge-up and revolve. My guess is that they want to build up their portfolio enough to sell receivable-backed securitizations on the credit markets. just my few pennies ... mj
