Anyone intersted in the "process" ?

One of the most important subjects which MOST boards like this lack, is the "debt collection process" from A-Z.

The majority of the misconceptions of the "debt collection process" cause consumers to take a course of action which is often not beneficial to them.

Ever heard of the phrase "Be close to your friends.....and even CLOSER to your enemies?"

If you have the ins-and-outs of how the process works, one can better understand WHY and HOW certain tactics, like these "sample letters" may work sometimes and not other times.

Let me know if anyone is interested in the process FROM THE COLLECTION AGENCY POINT OF VIEW.

*****I AM NOT A DEBT COLLECTOR********

 

I like to concider myself an informed, moderately sophisticated consumer

In case you havent noticed, my post often present "alternatives to the norm." Many would call it "a pain in the ass" LOL

The "norm" being the way consumers have attempted to deal with credit problems.

Ill pose a question. If the "norm" worked (more times than not) WHY DO THESE BOARDS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS EXIST ?

Obviously, the "norm" isnt the best option.


Never argued the point whether people on here were smart or not. SMARTS has little to do with it. EDUCATION and CORRECT information, based on facts, cases, statutes etc, and not "well it must be good..it worked before" theory.

The reluctance to even inquire into the "process" further shows the lack of willingness to accept the possibility the "norm" aint workin

 

If anyone is interested, here is a great site which is an insight into the terms, idea, opinions, and tactics used by collectors:

http://www.cdiaonline.org/index.cfm

http://www.cdiaonline.org/eoscar/index.cfm

http://www.cdiaonline.org/eoscar/eoscar.cfm

**This link even has cases against collection agencies. THIS IS THE ONLY "MOTIVATION" a debt collector has to comply with the laws.

These links will show how EASY it is to make an error on a consumer's credit report. IT IS NOT ALWAYS because they are "after you", IT IS A HUGE "email" system by which DISPUTES etc are handled.

"PAPER" and "PAPER TRAIL" is not in the vocab of these guys I think they took the "paperwork reduction act" too seriously LOL

Imagine how frustrating it is when you get "spammed" in your email box.

Now think of that "spam" as laziness, apathy, illiteracy, language barriors etc which could lead a sender or reader of one of these "emails" to make an error.

 

never calimed to be an expert

"And what makes you think your way is any better than those offered here."

-It is not "my way", its the LAW. IF I post a "correction" or "comment" about a "method" in the post, IT IS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT CONFORM to the law, or it is "dangerous" to the consumer. Every "expert" poster here is more than happy to point out various alleged "violations", but not willing to actually read and understand what constitutes a "vaiolation" and what DOES NOT. And when someone does, IT MUST BE WRONG!! It makes no sense to refer to the statute for "violations", then flame someone who attempts to clarify the statutes


"what is the "norm" that isn't working that you describe"


One example-

-Look and see how many posts there are about "CA refuses to Validate" or "CA refuses to respond" or "CA wont properly validate" or "CRA responds with "previously investigated" or "CA refused to respond to 2nd-3rd validation" etc etc??

-IF the "letters" or "tactics" (the norm) worked, why do these posts excist?

-Is it because the collection agencies just chooses to violate the law, or dont want to "comply?"

-OR maybe there is NOTHING mandating them to??

-So how does one find out what they HAVE to do and what happens when they dont?

-The answer in most cases is THEY DONT HAVE TO! Which begs the question, "why not?"

-Since the consumer protections are contained in the federal statutes (FRCA/FDCAP), and state laws, WHY WOULDNT YOU WANT TO KNOW THE INFO??

-Any rational person would want to find out "the truth." The truth being the federal statutes themselves in this case right?


-I have never, and plan never to, offer "advice" or "beliefs" on these issues. I have only pointed consumers in the direction to educate themselves on the issues presented.

-Because the ONLY recourse a consumer has is a "legal one", unless one is educated in the "legalities", whats the point of even trying to fix credit problems??

-Some of the "techniques" or "suggestions" create a scenerio like children fighting each other...

"You better do it (validation for example)! You cant make me! yes I can (validation letter)..No you cant.. yes i can (intent to sue letter).BUT CAN YOU SUE AND WHAT FOR?


-SO how do you find out how to "settle the chidlren down?" Wouldnt finding out WHAT they can and cannot or have to or not have to do BY LAW kinda settle it instead of argueing "beliefs?"

-Instead of questioning "my way", why not just read what I post, research it, THEN decide what to do? If you find I am wrong, PLEASE let me know. I have NO PROBLEM ADMITTING TO AN ERROR. BUT, if what I post is correct, spread the word

-I am NOT in this for fame, fortune, or notoriety. If anyone can benefit from my knowledge and experience, by educating themselves, a better person I am.

-I can go on and on about the "flawed" ideas here if you wish. But Id rather just offer "corrections" to each post where I find the posters "question" or "problem" was not answered in accordance to the law.

-If you are interested in the "flaws" let me know.

hiding90@hotmail.com

 

"secondly, most ARE out to get you, as anyone here will attest to"

-Actually, they are out to get your $$$, and will do almost anything to do it.

-IF a consumer takes this too personally, THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST!

 

Re: Re: Anyone intersted in the "process" ?

-Ok, so they dont all report electronically. Which somehow makes my post incorrect and eliminates the "common cause" of errors in electronic reporting??

 

"i'm absolutely interested in hearing about the process."

-not everyone wants to flame, and is open to the possibility that there is something "else" out there.

"Even if you WERE a collector, it would still help me to know what it would take to get them to just let me pay them and take the TL off 100% forever. What's the process for THAT?"

-Unfortunately, NOTHING REQUIRES anyone to remove an entry after payment. Good negotiating skills may help. A 100% way?? KNOW the info and be able to "catch" potential vilations of LAW, and USE that as leverage. BUT KNOWING what a violation is BY BEING ABLE TO RECITE "book chapter and verse" is the only way.

"I'd like to hear about any process you know of. That's why I'm here -- to get the maximum protection that the law will allow me for my past credit mistakes."

-You hit in on the head. THe laws are intended for the protection of the consumer for violation of dbt collection/reporting activity. REGARDLESS OF LIABILITY OR OWNERSHIP OR MISTAKE


"Eventually, then to qualify for a mortgage at a reasonable rate."

-WHY I learned the process myself

 

"The processes used here work."

-Agreed. Never said they dont. I said they work NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE BASED ON FACT OR LAW THOUGH.

-HERE is a great example of that. Read this post and tell me the "process here worked"

http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...ad.php?s=&goto=newpost&threadid=57485&pgnum=1


"They've worked for several years now and have been refined along the way."

-"Refined" usualy means at some point something didnt work right? So it had to be changed right? SO how come YOUR "changes" are assumed valid, but when I suggest a "change" its automatically questioned? WHO can make "changes" then?

"To hiding90, are you saying a ca does not have to validate (prove) a debt if they receive the request in writing per the FDCPA?"

- I AM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL. CONGRESS IS SAYING THAT I am mearly pointing out the LAW

(Ill explain this a little more. I KNOW it casused a little "huh?" on the board)

FDCPA 809 Validation of Debts-

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#809

YES, it does say if a consumer notifies a debt collector IN WRITING, DURING THE INITIAL 30 DAYS OF THE INITIAL CONTACT and requests "verification" of a debt. AND, if they do, the debt collection MUST cease collection attempts UNTIL they MAIL the consumer "verification." PRETTY CLEAR RIGHT??

SOOOO, WHAT IF THEY CEASE COLLECTION ATTEMPTS FOREVER? DO they STILL have to send verification or even reply>?? NO! NOT according to Congress

What if they send the debt BACK to the collector and the collector then attempts to collect the debt OR they send it out again to another collector??? STILL, the answer is NO, the original collector DOES NOT HAVE TO VALIDATE.

Section (b) GIVES THE COLLECTOR A CHOICE. "PUT UP OR SHUT UP!"

Like most the sections of law, beacuse they are written by OVER educated people, REQUIRES a consumer to read on and on and on to MAKE SURE THERE IS NOT MORE TO THE SECTION. THIS IS WHERE MOST CONSUMERS make a mistake INCLUDING ME!

SOOO simply reading "a debt collector must cease collection activity untill they respond...." ONLY TELLS YOU HALF of IT

 

Re: Fascinating

"I am confident that you're literally going to save us countless, ineffective hours on our efforts by simply prescribing to your methods. "

-Never suggested a "method". If the laws are "methods", then ok I did.


"So, your truth eminates from a single case? Shocking! This could possibly be a revelation!!! Please share the case that we can singly, soley count on and depend upon for our efforts to be most effective? Truthfully (no pun, hehe), I was just beginning to think that all of our hundreds to possibly thousands of hours and posts talking about case law, precedent and statute applicability were just ineffectual wasted time. Thank GOODNESS you're arrived!"

-Thanks, but maybe if you actually took the time to read the cites, references etc instead of just blindly replying on them as "truth". it would eleviate the need for you to type such a sarcastic reply

-ONE example of this is the famous "Estoppel by silence" and the case cite follwing found in the "validation/intent to sue" letter. ANYONE ACTUALLY READ THAT CASE????? ANYONE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT CASE???

"But....hmmm.....what is somewhat puzzling is your lack of documentation on these matters."

-Umm I have posted over and over and over again either a link to the relevent law, the case cite, or at least the "(case cite avail)" line BECAUSE most poeple are NOT interested


"Which, to be honest, is a fair assessment of our environs here at CN given your viewing angle. Your initial comprehensive readings of CN posts (which I'm sure AT LEAST consisted to 1 or two posts) would make it appear as though we're all amatuers. "

- DIdnt know there were "professional" posters, but ok

"Many of us come here at first, scared to the Bejesus Belt because of some stupid collection firm that used illegal and illicit tactics to frighten us into paying a debt that isn't even possibly ours."

-Sounds like the collection agency wasnt so stupid if they got you to pay a bill that wasnt yours ?

"the Collection Agencies with their bully outlook on life simply stomp their proverbial feet back at us, using childish manners (well documented here and on 'other boards') ... thus the game continues. So ... help us be not so childish. What's the magic cure you have to avoid this kind of thing? Hopefully you have secret 'tactics' that we can employ to make the bad ol' putty tat Collection Agencies BE-HAVVVVEE baby."

-NOTHING SECRET ABOUT IT. IN fact, i think we even know where/what the laws are FDCPA/FCRA are just 2. THE "secret" IS READING IT NOT "commentary" not "posts which "interpret" JUST READ THE LAW ITSELF

"I'm sure with your subtle approach and ample post history you'll be WELL listened-to here at CN. Bring it!! We're waiting with baited breath!"

-Although meant to be a slam, I can only hope at least one person can think out of the box and maybe take a chance and LOOK at what I post and do THEIR own research

 

"Ok, sideline commentary:"

"(2) If he's not a DEBT COLLECTOR then how in the hell does he know what debt collection is all about?"

-ILL ANSWER THIS WITH A QUESTION. HOW DO ATTORNEYS WHO RESPRESENT CONSUMERS IN FDCPA/FCFA KNOW THE INFO? IS IT TOO HARD TO BELEIVE THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY GO OUT AND LEARN WITHOUT BEING PART OF IT?

-We all know murder is wrong. DO YOU HAVE TO BE A MURDER TO LEARN THAT?


"(3) Why call us CHILDREN and try to offer help in the same breath?"

-Never called anyone children IT was a metophore about the "atmosphere" the suggestions and "tactics" found on these boards creates.

"(4) Why insist that his methods are based on truth?"

-Never suggested a "method"

"This implies that our methods are based on falsehood?"

-NO. IT implies that the methods MAY NOT be based on THE FULL TRUTH. SOME OF THE METHODS ARE BASED ON FALSEHOODS

"This really gets my bespeckled goat! To imply that valued posters such as Jlynn, Lbrown, Butch, PsychDoc, et al., are simply idiots"

-First, try not to speak for others. IF THEY HAD A COMMENT, LET THEM POST IT

"really doesn't bode well with what we've seen from them (which is typically a concerned look at all issues, and a full exogesis of the law in the case at hand)."

-I hope they continue


"(5) Why here? Why us? [slaps head] Does anyone else want to deal with this guy?"

-IT IS a lot easier to flame someone and call them names etc, rather than "look at all issues, and a full exogesis of the law in the case at hand." THIS INFORMATION IS NO EASY TO QUICKLY UNDERSTAND. IT TAKES MONTHS, PERHAPS YEARS TO FULLY UNDERSTAND. SO WHEN SOMEONE IS TRULY IN NEED OF HELP AND ANSWERS, IF THEY FIND "an easy" appearing solution (validation/intent to sue letter for example) IT IS MUCH EASIER TO COPY/PASTE and mail it off WITHOUT knowing there may be negative consequences in doin so .



"Pack that in your pipe and smoke it, bub."

-Smoking is unhealthy