Arrow Followed FDCPA - I am sad !!

sounds like you will have to settle with them to me. i've never had to before and don't know much about it...

briana

 

It sounds like it. "At this point, I personally would just lay low and see what happens. It isn't a given that they will sue you, although they very well may. If you have 25 -30 % of what they are asking, then you might want to make an offer to settle. Tell them you this amount to settle. If they don't and sue you, you will file bk and they will get nothing.

 

i think there is nothing wrong with you trying to validate that debt. why should you pay something if they can't prove you owe it? after all, they are happy to lie to you about what will happen if you don't pay it and everything else under the sun, not to mention the hideous interest the OC's made you pay on that debt.

briana

 

There are people here who have had other peoples debts put on their reports. There are some that have been victims of ID theft etc. And, of course there are some that do owe the debts.

Your comment about "if it was that easy, every one would just not pay and validate" That is not what this board is about. We don't tell people to never pay your debts, just validate for the sake of not paying. That is what your comment insinuated. Sure, people who do owe the debts don't pay. Your comment made it sound like we preach this as a way of life. Just validate, run up the bills again and validate again. Not so.

 

I agree with you. And maybe I took her comment the wrong way, but it sounded like we tell people as a way of life, don't pay - just validate. Then do it again. That isn't what this is about.

 

I'm sorry this isn't working for you. One thing I keep telling newbies is that before they do anything, they need to read the FDCPA and FCRA and understand it. Then, they need to read this board thoroughly and understand the things we do and why we do it before they undertake any credit repair. JMO

 

I've been given permission by the person who owns the email address to give it out. If you have problems with Arrow, he might be able to help you......I would send him an email. For the rest of you, I posted a few weeks ago about knowing someone who might be able to help you with Arrow. Send him an email explaining your situation. He just might be able to help you.

gmajors@majorfox.com <- His Email. It's worth an email to find out if there's something that you can do against Arrow...........I can't say anymore because I've promised only to give out his email address and tell people that he might be able to help, after all he is an attorney.

 

I happen to be a CPA - I thought I would shed some light on the subject of charging off a debt since their seems to be some confusion on the matter. When a corporation charges off a debt to bad debt expense, they do not get a check from the government for the amount owed. They only get a tax break equal to around 40% of the debt, depending on their tax bracket. In other words, they do not have to pay as much income tax as they would had they not charged off the debt. This in no way means the debt is no longer owed. Just because a company writes off your account they can still make attempts to collect it, and you still legally owe it. Were you to pay the charged off debt, the company would recognize a gain in the taxing period you paid, and pay the taxes on the income generated from the transaction, making up for the previous tax break. In practice, companies use an allowance for bad debts to estimate bad debt expense based on a percentage of receivables or sales which have historically proved uncollectable.

I do not think you could ever use the defense that you no longer owe the debt because it was charged off as a valid reason not to pay it back. I am not sure what difference it makes about insuring the debt either. Infact, I have not ever run accross an accounts receivable department that insured their accounts. I know nothing at all about CA's - maybe they do insure their accounts. But, I think any insurance company that would insure AR aged beyond 90-120 days is out of their mind...lol. It would be comparable to a 99 year old man applying for life insurance. Sure he could get it, but the rates would be outrageous.

I am not taking the collector's side here - I just don't think arguing that the debt was charged off is a valid defense under the FDCPA or any other law. The SOL would be much more effective.

Having said all this, I am curious why the validation letters even request the date of charge-off. I thought it was to verify the date reported on the credit reports. Hopefully, one of the credit experts will explain.

Thanks,

 

Yes, this board is truly excellent and one can learn much from the opinions and experiences of others. Two heads are better than one and it's likely that someone else has had a very similar problem as one is facing.

However, one has to understand that when there is an issue regarding money, there is usually a risk attached. OC's take a certain risk in lending money. CA's take a risk in trying to collect. If you invest in the stock market, there is a risk involved. Therefore one has to well understand what they are delving into and the risks associated.

No one knows their specific situation better, than the person themselves. Armed with that first hand knowledge and the myriad of ideas, opinions and past experiences of others on this board, one can then go and tackle their specific situation. However, because it does deal with money, there is a risk attached. It might be easy to resolve or it might take many hours of personal time along with much stress and frustration before an end is reached.

I can understand the stress you probably feel at this point, as you might think that things will get worse each passing day. Regardless, I think you will find the people here will not pass judgment and will be more than happy to help and encourage you. You will find it a great support system at the very least.

I'm sure many will agree that you should cease from further phone contact with the CA's involved. Do a search on "phone or phone contact" and I'm sure there will be plenty to read as to why. Don't give up and don't despair. Continue posting and continue reading all you can. It will not only increase your confidence, but will help in trying to resolve this situation in the best possible way.

Take a look at this post by Psychdoc
PsychDoc's Credit Repair Primer
it is excellent advice.

http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=211366#post211366

 

I am truly sorry for you Pulse. This really sucks. I guess Arrow finally caught a clue recently, and I'm sorry that it had to be at your expense. I personally have them on 5 FCDPA violations and intend on suing them.

I'm just sorry that their new found "respect" for the law had to be at your expense. But don't let this get you down. I have had several of setbacks, but I keep on keeping on. One of the things that has helped has been being past SOL. My debts are all 6 years old, so that has been a relief.

My advice to you is to take a deep breath and truly think before you act in this situation. At first glance, you may just want to settle or despair about a suit and judgement. Don't do this. Think about what people on the board a recommending, take it to heart and pray on it. The proper solution will come to you. If you have to make arrangements and pay, then do so. If you do get a judgement, then so be it. Life will go on. There are better things past our earthly pursuits. Think on these things and take things with this in mind.

Good luck to you Pulse.

 

rblues,

Beautifully and elegantly said - so true!

 

I agree with John, their is indeed a risk in validating - I also think that CA's are a bunch of ruthless bast@rds. To purchase a four year old troubled debt is just plain stupid business no matter what the price. Check to see if your state allows wage garnishment. That would be my biggest fear. If they don't then I would just wait out the 7 years and it will eventually fall off your credit reports. Why should you put any money in their pockets, unless ofcourse, they agree to delete the item in a settlement.

I too am sorry this happened to you.

 

Great idea. At this point it is best to also learn about limiting loses. Depending on income and wage garnishment laws in your state, it might not be suitable for them to attempt that, as it could take years for them to get the money - so in that case they might not pursue along those lines. Assets are also something they will look at. However, since this has been going on for 4 years, it's likely they have considered those items as viable already and it appears they haven't already followed that course. One can't squeeze blood from a rock. However they sure can try and squeeze as much and as long as they can. If settlement ends up being the only way, they can't get more than what you truly have.

 

The entire collection industry is based on disproving your point. They are making money and it is a very profitable business. They bought a $7300 debt for $150 thatâ??s about 2 cents on the dollar. If they collect on average more than 2 cents/dollar of purchased debt they make money.

From what I have read they are collecting about 3 or 4 cents/dollar on old accounts. That is double the cost of purchase, take out expenses, salaries, legal fees, a few thousand they lose in law suits from CreditNetters, and they are still making money. Now multiply 2 cents on a dollar by thousands of collectors each with a million dollars of debt to collect on, thatâ??s BIG money.

Add in the accounts they collect on for a contingency fee (they pay nothing for these) and they are making money from â??whole clothâ?. These people are not stupid in the business model they are operating on. To tell people here that the collection industry is based on a â??stupid businessâ? premise is misleading and the product of wishful thinking.


JohnM

(The above is not a defense of the industry, it is a simply stating the business model of a CA. I dont like the ones that have asked me for money either)

 

I hope that you did have some positive results on some of your other accounts.

If your goal was to hide from the CA's you are completely right, you should not have sent any letters.

Credit repair is not a method of beating the system. It is a method for learning tools that give YOU maximum leverage with your creditors to insure compliance with the law by them and if they violate the law YOU gain a legal advantage that may save you money in getting out of debt.

That just does not work, I tried it and the debt was still around when I peeked out. Unless you are going to stay under your rock for 6 years or whatever your SOL is

I disagree, it is worth it, it is a good way to help clear up the mess that you are in. It won't make your debts go away. It will make the future better and brighter for you. It can speed up the time it takes to get you back in prime credit shape.

This is not an easy task, it takes time and energy, it takes a commitment to PAYING your bills on time no matter what.

Sad,,,yes. Kill you...wouldn't be right .

If you read this site and came to the conclusion that it is about getting out of what you really owe you need to go back and read more posts.

I have always believed that the basic purpose of this board is to protect our rights under the law. It gives us the tools needed to stop the abusive and illegal practices of the credit industry. It is not to allow us to escape debts that are ours and are collected in a legal method.

Please donâ??t take this post as personal criticism. I can feel your panic in your posts; this can seem overwhelming at times. Stop take a deep breath and make a commitment to yourself to make your best effort to handle the situation you are in.

Good luck and you should know that you are in good company here, I have been were you are now, I managed to get things turned around and you can as well.

Best wishes,

JohnM

 

Sorry to quote everything here but I wholeheartedly agree w/ JohnM especially the part about stopping abusive and illegal practices.
That being said--and I don't know tons about settlement offers -- BUT it would seem to me that knowing the CA purchased the debt for $150 and that the OC probably received a 40% tax writeoff for the debt, you might be able to do some calculations where you could offer what is a fair settlement for deletion. Now there may be some preverse advantage to not paying at all and I am sure that better minds than mine could address this.

 

Have you considered discussing a settlement?

I sent validation letters on two Citibank accounts a different CA has that are listed as in collections on our CR. If they come back validated, i hope they also have how much the CA paid, so i know if my offer is reasonable profit-wise.

I don't have a problem settling with the CA and it's not why I went for validation. We just can't afford to pay very much to settle at this point.

Our situtation is that we have no property and low paying jobs, a judgement means immediate bankruptcy. Even 10% of the charge off will be difficult to come up with, but I'm hoping they'll go for a low settlement now instead of forcing us into bankrupty or waiting a year or more for our situtation to improve.

I only have to worry if they are smart or greedy. Smart means they'll realize how close we are to bankruptcy and they'll want to take what little money I have now, while i have it, instead of greedy where they decide nothing less than at least 40% will do.