my eloan representative just called and told me she was afraid this might be happening to me b/c the dealership still has not faxed the loan documents to her from a week ago. The scam goes... you take in your documents for outside financing (bank, eloan, peoplefirst, etc) to the dealership, fill out everything and take delivery of the vehicle-- everythings done, right? WRONG. The dealership still has to fax the documents to the bank or finance company in order to get their money. So heres the scam-- they DON'T send the documents in, a clause in the sales receipt says that they have to get their money within 10 days and after that 10 days they call you, say they need their money TODAY and force you into higher rate dealership financing + a larger downpayment, etc. TO AVOID this... do not take delivery of the vehicle until you get confirmation from the bank/finance company that the loan documents have been processed. I'm still waiting to make sure my documents are faxed today... I think I threw a big enough hissy fit to make this happen. Just beware... I might just be naive, I don't know, but I think alot of first time buyers might fall for a scam like this.
I indeed fell for this the first time I purchased a car. I was a dumb 20 year old kid with no clue how auto finance worked. I ended up getting railroaded into a loand 2 points higher. To make matters worse, they had already disposed of my trade-in, so I practically had no options. If I knew then what I know now...
Thing is... I had already heard of the "your financing fell through" spot delivery scam with dealer financing which specifically targets people with bad credit... but I had no idea this could happen when I had secured outside financing. Seems the dealerships have found a way to extend this lovely scam to people with good credit as well.
If you traded a vehicle in and they want to void the contract, they MUST return your trade, no if's and's or but's about it!! I had a friend fall for this exact trick at a local large dealership, they demanded almost the exact same thing. I told him to go to the dealership and demand that they fax the paperwork and confirm it with the loan place on the phone before he left the dealership. If they gave him the run around what so ever I told him to leave the new car, get his trade back and to tell the sales manager that he would be hearing from his attorney and the attorney generals office about their scam. The salesman claimed he was unable to get ahold of the loan place which he claimed was totally unavailable to him. My buddy called them on his cell phone and gave it to the salesman. The deal was settled that day. If that were me I would have left the car and sued them. Tac
Bottom line here people - if you are providing your own finance arrangements in the purchase of a new or used car, then do not give them your #SSN! The dealer does not need your SSN when you buy a car and you are providing your own financing. Without your SSN they obviously can not shop your ID for a loan since this would in effect be a violation due to the fact that the dealer had no permissable purpose. Now in some states (like Texas), a persons SSN is now required for purposes of titling the vehicle - has something about using the SSN to help track down individuals who dont pay child support. If this is the case in your state, simply request that when the title clerk processes your paperwork, that they contact you and you will be glad to stop by and provide the information at that time. Also, the purchase agreement/buyers order that the finance guy had you sign and was required to give you a copy of should say something about cash deal. If nothing else, you can give your bank/lender a copy of the purchase order and they can work with that. If hte dealer is dragging there feet, then dont leave this in the hands of the dealer, iinstad, let the lender go to bat! They have as much a stake in your business as you do in having to pay a higher interest rate!
Tac, Amen to that. Oldest scam in the auto finance book. I know for a fact that California (and probably many other states) has laws on the books which specifically address this. In this case specifically, if you have a bank draft and they purposely delay processing it to the point where it becomes invalid, it's not only bad faith, but outright fraud. I can only wish some dealer would try and do that to me - LOL. I'd wind up getting my car for free and then some.
ms, I'm suing a dealership over just that issue. I had a bank draft from my credit union. Sales "consultant" told me I had to fill out a credit app because that was what they used for their records, and that no credit would be run. So, I crossed out the line on the app where it said I gave them permission to check my credit. Lo and behold, two pulls on EQ and EX. More details are here: http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42017 -HDAlex
Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam quote: ---------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ms6073 Bottom line here people - if you are providing your own finance arrangements in the purchase of a new or used car, then do not give them your #SSN! The dealer does not need your SSN when you buy a car and you are providing your own financing. Without your SSN they obviously can not shop your ID for a loan since this would in effect be a violation due to the fact that the dealer had no permissable purpose. ----------------------------------------- In the state of MS a title cannot be processed without a ss#. For the purpose of obtaining a tag. tnobles ========================= === **If this is the case in your state, simply request that when the title clerk processes your paperwork, that they contact you and you will be glad to stop by and provide the information at that time. Also, the purchase agreement/buyers order that the finance guy had you sign and was required to give you a copy of should say something about cash deal. If nothing else, you can give your bank/lender a copy of the purchase order and they can work with that. If hte dealer is dragging there feet, then dont leave this in the hands of the dealer, iinstad, let the lender go to bat! They have as much a stake in your business as you do in having to pay a higher interest rate! ms6073 ======================= Should have read the rest of ms6073s' post as it expained what to do about this requirement.tnobles | The END ************************* LB 59
Re: Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam OK LB, got one for you, as you know my hubby is a dealer, when someone buys a car from us, we have no 'title clerk' so to speak, I am the closest thing to that. Hubby and I do ALL paperwork, someone tells me they can't give me their ss# I would have to say SORRY, I cannot give you the car, WE would be held liable with the state tax commision, and believe me, the MS State Tax Commission will not think twice about shutting a dealer down.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam BTW, I AM the 'title clerk' at the auction here, and people DO NOT REALIZE how EASILY a title is rejected, I reject titles all day long because paperwork is not filled out properly or titles are incorrect. If I receive a title that so much has the middle initial wrong, it will be rejected. MS is actually one of the most lenient states when it comes to titles, other states ESPECIALLY LA if you're t is not crossed or you're i is not dotted, they will reject it it, and I am speaking literally.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam And what would you do if someone presented you with an ITIN in lieu of a SSN?
documents were faxed yesterday after much persistence, just glad that eloan made me aware of the problem in advance of it turning into a nightmare... I'm afraid there are no laws on the books in OH which address this kind of scam.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam TNobles, considering how patient you were recently in answering all my offline questions - which really helped us in purchasing our Expedition a couple weeks ago - I am the last one who is going to try an dispute the knowledge of someone who is so deeply entrenched in the businesss. But obviously the title clerk at an auto auction is under much tighter deadlines since the inventory clears the property at a faster rate/higher volume than at an automobile dealership. Also, since a buyer at an auction, for the most part, has to have some form of certified funds before bidding, I dont think we need to be worried about an auction house 'shopping' for a lender for a bidders auto purchase. That would seem to be contrary to the nature of the business and not an apples to apples comparison. So, just to be straight, my intent was not to imply that under no circumstances would I not give my SSN. No, more apptly I probably should have said that should I have apprehensions, then I would be happy to provide the information to the appropriate parties at the appropriate time. This means that I will not (and did not when we bought our Expedition 2-weeks ago) give my SSN to a salesman (ever) nor am I likley to give it to the finance manager (most of the time) at dealerships known for high pressure sales tactics! How about this, it is a pain but if push comes to shove, then write a letter that not only includes the SSN but outliines the specific purpose for its use, have it notarized, and ensure that it is addressed so as only to be opened/used by, the dealers title clerk for purposes of titling the car. Include this letter in a sealed envelope at the time you close the deal! If you are providing your own financing and the finance manager says he cant accept the sealed envelope, then it is time, and here is where you have to hang tough, to simply get up and walk out of his office and away from the deal! It occurs to me that if a person is buying used, this discussion alone might be reason enough to buy only through a private party! This means that you have to have your own financing (unless you can pay cash) and it also means that the buyer has to go in person to the County Tax Assessor/Collectors office so as to pay the sales tax and take care of the titling of the car. At least in that instance, you know that your identification is only in the hands of the people who actually need it!
Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam No, but the automaker under whose trademark the dealer does business would probably love to here how one of there outlets is possibly abusing their customers trust. I imagine that your state/city/town does have laws regarding deceptive trade practives and even then, there are also federal laws which prohibit such activity! Also, I think the worst thing that could happen is for you to mention to the local media how you were treated after the sale by this dealership. The media usually loves a good scandal especially when it comes to locla business around rating sweeps periods. I think you should also consider sending the dealer some 'feedback' via www.planetfeedback.com This alsways seems to be a way to either get problems resolved or let others know of the travails that befell you in your delaings with this business.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Auto Dealer Scam HI! Enjoying you're Exp.? Great aren't they? The point I was trying to make is that (in my state anyway) you MUST provide a ss# in order to purchase, now most bigger dealerships are going to have title clerks, but there are smaller lots that do finance but yet do not have title clerks, the smaller dealerships usually deal with just 1 or 2 lenders. As far as the auction and me being a title clerk goes, I am not quite sure what my point was there, we do not deal with ss#'s at the auction, they do not go on the title they are only for tax and tag purposes, I guess my point was that dealers have to be very articulate about processing their paperwork, I have to reject titles in turn reject the selling dealers drafts (money) constantly because the titles are incorrect. Because they are eventually going to be rejected by the state. Now as far as dealers scams go, believe me I KNOW, I deal with dealers day in and day out. They are not all bad people but the car business is not the most HONEST business in the world. But alot of times things are required not neccessarily by the dealer but by the state that the vehicle will go in. For instatnce, I may recieve a title that is staying in MS, MS is very lax about excepting screwed up titles, but the same title I would have to reject IF it were going into say, TX, AL, or LA. LA is the very WORST state about rejecting titles. But my point here is that if the state asks for it, the dealer HAS to provide it.
