AX reporting to CRAs but sold to NCO

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Jazzs Mom, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. Jazzs Mom

    Jazzs Mom Member

    American Express didn't abide by their terms and conditions to the account I allegedly had with them. They did not adhere to their own intro rate of 0% interest and started charging interest 6 months into on an interest free period of a year promotional . They lost several payments, which have the bank statement showing cashed, hence 'dinging' with 2 late payment fees and putting into the 28-29 % interest bracket. They made some adjustments but did not rectify their own mistakes 100% even after numerous calls.

    I need a transplant, have diabetes that gave me kidney damage, a liver condition that disqualifies me for a transplant, and am bi polar.

    I had had a part time job but lost it and couldn't keep up anymore with the increased payments. The bill is for $3500.00

    I had a 794 credit score and now it looks like a 585. I own a house, and my 2 cars are paid for but this is eating me alive cos I always pay my debts. I had a car accident and tons of medical bills that got me behind and lack of part time job. I am having a hard time and am very disappointed in myself and my current standing in life.

    They sold the alleged debt to 2 debt collection agencies before NCO.

    In the attempt to make this as simple and clear as possible:

    I researched and found out about Debt Validation. I worked as a paralegal for 3 years and consulted with the attorney I worked for. HE doesn't know alot about this stuff and I am a real mess right now emotionally, lots of medical appointments which are really hard to face, fiance unemployed and i can't find a part time job either.

    I sent NCO a debt validation letter but of course they NEVER responded.

    1. Is this a violation of Fair Debt Collection Practices Act? Does their simply not responding to 1 DV letter constitute an actual violation? ($1,000)

    2. American Express has put this on my credit report. Seemingly the credit agencies say they have validated the debt.

    I am confused. Seemingly NCO has NOT POSTED anything to my credit reports, however AX has.

    Can AX put negatives on my credit report when they have sold the account , and who they sold it to has not validated the debt?

    Please explain. any notations to case law and any law/fair debt collection practices acts, etc would be great.

    Your time and assistance is greatly appreciated. Maybe some peace in my heart.
  2. billbauer

    billbauer Well-Known Member

    I've been looking for an attorney who knows his/her stuff when it comes to consumer law for the last 20 years or so and haven't found one yet. The major problem with finding such an animal is that the client has to know as much or more than the attorney in order to know whether the attorney knows what he is supposed to know and is therefore competent or not. If I have to know as much or more than the attorney then why do I need one? I'll readily admit that lots of attorneys have taught me a great deal over the years but only a trick here and there. In fact, I'm still learning from them just about every day. Hopefully I will keep on learning for the rest of my life.
    They seldom ever do so they did what you wanted them to do which is fail to validate the debt. [/quote] 1. Is this a violation of Fair Debt Collection Practices Act? Does their simply not responding to 1 DV letter constitute an actual violation? ($1,000)[/quote] No, there is no requirement that they even respond to your demand for validation.
    Did they say they have validated the debt or did they say they have verified the debt? There is a big difference between the two. Credit reporting agencies are not required to validate anything. They are only required to verify the listing.
    What is confusing about that?
    Yes, they can. No problem there. There is no law that says that anybody has to put anything on your credit report. AX don't have to and neither does the party they sold it to. The only requirement is that the information they provide to the credit bureaus must be accurate. But how do you know that AX sold the debt to NCO?
    It is easy to see that you know almost nothing about either FDCPA or FCRA or how they operate. If you don't have a teacher it can take years to learn all this stuff and how to use it. Even after you know the laws it still takes much more learning to know how to use it. Just because the law says something does not mean that everybody will obey the law. In fact, few of them ever do obey the laws because they don't understand it or because it is more convenient or more profitable to ignore it and do as they please. From what you have told us so far nobody has violated the law or your rights under the law. But let us imagine that at some point in time they do break the law. If that happens what will you do about it? Go running around trying to find some attorney who knows about this stuff and will do something about it? Or will you spend your spare time or at least some of it learning how to know whether your rights under the law have been violated or not and then learning how to do something about it in the event somebody violates your rights under the law?

    Probably the most valuable lessen you will ever learn is that you cannot trust anything anybody tells you about the law. Not on this forum or any other forum on or off the internet nor in any lawyer's office. You have no idea whether what I have told you here is correct or not. In order to find that out you have to do your own research. Nobody can do that for you either for free or for pay. That's why I constantly tell my students that they should never believe a word I say. I constantly tell people that they should take what I say or anybody else says and do your own research to find out whether that person knows what they are talking about or not.

    The first thing you should learn is that nothing a lawyer or a judge tells you should be trusted. If you are fighting a court case and a lawyer quotes a court case or a law then go look that case or that law up to see what it says for yourself. You will find that most of the time they do know what they are saying is correct and true. But what if there is some little trick or twist in that case or law that you might have been able to use to your benefit but because you accepted what they said as the gospel truth and didn't go check it out for yourself you lost the case?

    You have to learn to think outside the box too. For instance, what was the reason you demanded validation of the debt from NCO? What did you expect them to do? Did you really want them to send you a full and complete accounting of the debt and maybe a copy of your agreement with AX? Or did your debt validation letter ask them a number of questions you demanded that they answer? Then the next question would have to be what would you do if they did comply with the law fully and completely? Then how long are you willing to wait for an answer to your demand for validation? Thirty days? Sixty days? 90 days? A year? 10 years? Forever? Let's say you are willing to wait no more than 30 days to get some kind of response but nothing happens. No letter, no phone calls, nothing. What are you going to do about that?
  3. ccbob

    ccbob Well-Known Member

    It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life. It's not my call, but dealing with debt collectors would seem pretty low on the list of what's important and worth stressing over given all the things you list in your post.

    Sure, no one wants to be thought of as a dead beat or "delinquent" when it comes to your obligations, but stuff happens. It even happens to the so-called best and brightest minds on Wall St. who have the best resources available to keep them informed (or so they say).

    Bottom line, you are where you are and you need to work from there not from where you might rather be. You need to reasses your priorities and focus on what's REALLY important (e.g. health, home, family). Then, if you have some time/energy left over, think about the collection account. Don't get all worked up over FDCPA violations and filing law suits (but do keep written records).

    So, to the task at hand.

    1) whenever you get a letter from a CA, send a dispute and request for validation (DV) letter.
    2) whenever you get a phone call from a CA, wait a week and then send a DV letter.
    3) they don't have to respond BUT they can't pursue collection activities until they respond satisfactorily.

    If you can't pay them, you can't pay them. Period. Don't let them talk you into giving up your health or food just to pay them. Remember your priorities.

    If you can pay them, try to negotiate a non-disclosure agreement BEFORE you send any money. (Get the agreement in writing BEFORE you send any money, of course).

    WRT your credit report/score. Again, that's just a number not a report card of your worth as a human (as they would like you to think). Don't sweat it if you have more important things to worry about.

    Good luck!
  4. Jazzs Mom

    Jazzs Mom Member

    Below are 2 specific provisions under FDCPA

    809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]
    (a)Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --
    (1)the amount of the debt;
    (2)the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
    (3)a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
    (4)a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
    (5)a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
    (b)If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.
    (c)The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

    813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]
    (a)Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --
    (1)any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;
    (2)(A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000;

    With the face that NCO did not respond to my DV request, does that one act constitute as a violation to where I can sue them for 1k?

    I did request DV when didn't recieve it I reported it to the credit bureaus. NCO didnt report on my reports but AX did.

    I've sat and cried for days cos this isnt who I am. I never had these problems before. I try to be productive but can't find an accommdating job.

    Is there a way to get AX off my credit report cos they sent it to nco?

    can i sue nco for 1 k for violation of non response to dv request? how many times do you have to push for validation to make it a lawsuit issue? I have to go to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center this fall for my transplant need evaluation and I have no money for the trip so 1k would help cpver the costs. I figure I have enough documentation that they didn't respond but I have read about others sending multiple requests.
  5. squidzilla

    squidzilla Well-Known Member

    AX can report a derogatory to your credit report because they are the original creditor.

    You say that you sent a DV request to NCO, but that you have yet to receive a reply. They are not obligated to reply to your request, but they may not continue collection activities until they have done so. Failure to reply, absent further collection activity, is not an FDCPA violation in itself.

    How long ago did you send your DV request? It is possible that they're in the process of getting the information from AX.

    ccbob is right, though. This should be low on your list of priorities at the moment. You've got to take care of yourself, first and foremost. The last thing you need is more stress in your life, and frankly this is not worth the stress. Good luck!
  6. Jazzs Mom

    Jazzs Mom Member

    I watched the clock as the days ticked down since sending them the certified letter requesting debt validation- now its been over a month and half. A week after not receiving letter I contacted the credit agencies where I found out that they didn't have any postings from NCO.

    Why does the FDCPA STATE:

    809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]
    (a)Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing....

    ...(2)(A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000;

    It doesn't state whether or not they have reported you to CRAs.

    It doesn't count that They attempted to collect from me in the form of phone calls, mail?

    they called my Mother who I havent lived with in 11 years and they called her more than once. They also in a phone call told me I couldn't file bankruptcy because the debt is only 3500, and that considering I only have 2 out of 28 items on my CRAs that are bad I wouldn't do so
    (Mocking me) They also told me they would pass on the debt to my fiance who was an authorized user so they can't do that because he never signed a contract withAX.

    So at this point-

    I can't take them to small claims? (Which I am a fighter why I am not letting my health put me in my grave and I would do so. I know how to present in court)

    so because they didnt post it on my credit report- it doesnt matter that they attempted to collect from me. makes me not be able to sue them
  7. squidzilla

    squidzilla Well-Known Member

    It DOES matter that they attempted to collect from you. A derogatory posting on your credit report is only one example of continued collection activity.

    I hope that you've been keeping meticulous records of when NCO has been contacting you. If they've been calling you/your mother and sending you correspondence after receipt of your DV request, then that is absolutely actionable.

    I'd contact an attorney right away, as this is pretty much an open-and-shut case.

    You have been keeping track of these incidents, right?
  8. Jazzs Mom

    Jazzs Mom Member

    I am the Queen of paperwork. I have folders for everything.

    I have an Associate's Degree as a paralegal. I do plan to get to the law library at some point but I have been very depressed/ (when you don't get oxygen through your body it's hard to stay awake also) to leave my house. One of my other classmates from college said they ll try to help me next week. but it doesnt seem like i have a case now

    I don't have records of when they called my Mom- re dates, but I can always get a notarized statement or drag her to court with me should that happen.

    Disappointed cos I thought once they didn't respond to the DV I could take them to court.

    would it be worth anything to write american express and request dv from them?
  9. ccbob

    ccbob Well-Known Member

    1) AmEx is the OC. The FDCPA does not apply. AmEx can call you all they want to try and collect.

    2) You sent a letter to NCO but AX posted the derrogatory report. NCD did not (based on that) violate the FDCPA.

    3) How did you find out that NCO owned or was collecting the debt? If it was by letter, did it have the information required by 809(a)? If so. No violation. If not (which would surprise me) you might have them on something. If you found out by phone (and have them logged) and they never sent you a letter, you might have them, but be ready for the "bona fide error" defense. ("Gosh, your honor, we sent them a letter...")

    It could be that NCO hasn't responded because they returned the debt to AmEx and are no longler responsibel for it. In that case your letter has been scanned, shredded, and probably subsequently deleted.

    It's not clear who's been calling you. If it's NCO and they called after you sent them a validation letter (and you have documentation to prove all this), you might have a case. If AmEx called you, well, there's not much you can do in that case.

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