Guys, I just wanted to bring to the attention a very interesting thing I've been noticing lately regarding any type of CC or loan contract. That is....Arbitration Agreement What this means is this....You cannot sue them outright, you must file for an arbitration hearing and let an arbitrator decide. The arbitrator's ruling is binding, meaning you then could sue to have a court enforce his ruling. Arbitration is a big asset to a CC, Bank or loan company. You would have to file a complaint with the Arbitrator's Association and pay a very high fee, the arbitrator is NO judge and can be anyone the association approves of. Being part of my local union as a shop steward I can give my insight to arbitration....no one really wins out and many times the ruling is never based on the law or facts but just some stupid opinion of what they feel should happen. Our last arbitration was not in front of a judge or an attorney acting as the arbitrator, this person was a hospital nurse, the previous time before that...school teacher! How versed in the law do you think they would be in your arbitration hearing when you start to argue over credit laws? Another thing to point out is that the place of the hearing is determined by the association and can be very far away from your home and much closer to where the creditor is established. This means unless you want to add up alot of frequent flyer miles you can forget about suing that stupid credit card company for FCRA violations who is out in CA. You can also forget about that big Federal Lawsuit you want to file....Can't do that now, you just agreed to arbitration! I also had a recent creditor who I sued who back when I signed the contract was not under the arbitration clause in the contract. When I settled my lawsuit against them their attorney had the nerve to add a arbitration clause to our settlement agreement and release! I told them everything looked good but take out that silly notation of arbitration, there is no way I am willing to settle a lawsuit with that in there! They reluctantly complied but probably thought since I wasn't a skilled attorney I would overlook it in all that legal mumbo jumbo in the release. Fat Chance!! So in closing be advised, if you have recent credit be aware that if you ever default in the future, using state and federal laws against a OC are going to be that much harder thanks to that word..Arbitration Tac
Also, Citi {though mine said they would waive the arbitration clause for small claims court-as long as it stayed small claims}, MBNA, Cap1 and, Discover.
Reread Tac's post and would like to point out something else. His point of view was you suing them. The arbitration sword cuts the other way as well. If you default and they use it against you. It really is an endrun against the FDCPA and in 5 years or so as more and more people default under these agreements the face of debt collecting will likely change from goons in a call center to the OC just declaring an account in default and applying for arbitration.
I'm not much on this arbitration thing at all and it appears that the courts all the way to the Supremes aren't much for it either unless they institute it. Court ordered and supervised arbitration is apparently OK in some jurisdictions, others don't have it. Their arbitration boards are not considered by many courts to be valid since they deny certain basic rights to the consumer and are little more than Kangaroo courts. I have a rejection letter that I will gladly provide to anyone sending me an email asking for it but I have my doubts as of yet how effective it really is. Just haven't had that many people try it yet and report back. Can't hurt to try it even if it does no good at all. And although I am no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination I tend to think that if you have an argument about the debt you will have to go to arbitration with it but I also tend to doubt that they can force you to arbitrate their "criminal" actions if they break the law. That isn't an argument about the debt, it's an argument about their illegal behavior. And I also tend to think that one having a complaint about their behavior should file for an arbitration award and file it with the same company they use and not some other. One should also realize that an arbitrtion award by either party is totally worthless until it is turned into a judgment. If it is not turned into a judgment it is nothing at all so if you did file for an award and you did get it you would still have to go file MSJ to get anywhere with it. Many people have filed for arb and won it against the credit card companies and then just sit there and waited to use it as an argument against their MSJ. That won't work. One must also be very careful which arb company they use because all arb companies are not legal and lack jurisdiction to act in many states because they have not complied with all licensing and registration demands of the various states. Many are not registered to do business in any state not even their own. They have to be accredited to operate and if not their awards are worthless. I would imagine that one could also file for injuctive relief from demand for arbitration if one went at it on the proper grounds.
Here's the last I've seen on a Supreme Court ruling. They split a lot of legal hairs but seem to leave a pretty high burden on the party resisting arbitration. http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-1235.ZO.html
Demand for arbitration is a tough cookie indeed. And it's costs do make it almost impossible to accomplish for most debtors. We may have to arbitrate any claims against the OC or allow any arbitration demands by the OC but I don't see any indication that claims against their 3rd party collecors for their violations have to be arbitrated as well. So while one probably has little recourse except to arbitrate FDCPA violations are not going to work against the original creditor anyway. But they do work against 3rd party collectors and so far I fail to see that they are included in the arbitration requirements. Am I wrong? I don't know. I'm asking the question.
so, in theory, the OC exempts themselves from the law? In theory, they could send someone to my door with a baseball bat, bust my knees, and not ever have to go to court for assualt, etc? something smells rotten here...I once swore an oath to defend the constitution of united states with my life, and it burns my *ss that companies can find a way around the laws of the land. I'm going to look into this arbitration industry, and write my gov representatives.
In theory that's just about the size of it. Only in theory however. It sure does. Try proving that they have. Good! Do that but don't expect to do anything but waste time and money doing it.
How versed in the law do you think they would be in your arbitration hearing when you start to argue over credit laws? You can also forget about that big Federal Lawsuit you want to file....Can't do that now, you just agreed to arbitration! Tac ========== they try to get around consumer laws with this
I also tend to doubt that they can force you to arbitrate their "criminal" actions if they break the law. That isn't an argument about the debt, it's an argument about their illegal behavior. bbauer `````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````` Right: Bill but lots of folks will get blind sided by it and fail to exercise their rights. The END ************************* LB 59
