Several months ago I lost my job. I was living in a apartment complex in IL at the time paying $1100/mo. Tried to get new job and keep things going as long as possibloe but finally had to pack it in 3 months later and move back with family in NJ. I was fully paid in all monies owed when I left and moved out and returned keys before end of month. I had about a $1000 deposit I knew I would never see. When I left, I had about 4-5 months left on lease. Now a CA out of Maryland is trying to collect on their behalf about $4000. I sent them validation letter. Any experts out there with advice on how to approach this? Questions I have: Can they claim only actual damage? If they re-rented apartment say 2 months after I left, can they only claim the 2 months in lost rent? Can they come after me for the full remaining amount due under the lease term? If they did not rent it until after lease would have expired, do they have an obligation to mitigate their loss? Does any amount it rent they receive now over $1100/mo reduce their damage amount? I was in a growth area of IL where people and businesses were moving in left and right. Complexes going up all over. An educated guess would say they had the apartment rented 6-10 weeks after I left. As I see it, I think they would be able to claim following: ~2 months lost rent ($2200) prep/cleaning costs for re-rent (~$500 or so???) TOTAL $2700ish They had ~$1000 depoist so that would leave $1700. I probably can't pay either amount ($1700 or $4000). My thinking is that if I send out the various letters to the CRBs and the CA, I can enforce my rights on Reporting Act and Collection Act and see if they violate them at all. Rack up a few violations against the CA or OC which would give me a few bullets in my gun then doing a pissing contenst that would hopefully end in an offer to settle for maybe a couple hundred bucks or possibly nothing. Comments or guidance appreciated.
it is called mitigating damages i think when you broke the lease, the landlord had a duty to actively seek tenants for the apt. i dont really have much advice for you credit-wise tho
I actually had a similar situation a few years back, in PA. I was renting a very nice $900/mo apartment on a golf course by myself, and 10 months in I decided that I couldn't afford rent, utilities, and other bills on my one paycheck. Plus, I had just learned my semi-girlfriend was pregnant (!!!), which was a complete surprise that I was not finacially ready for. (She's now my wife and it all worked out just fine -- but trust me, I thought my entire world was caving in on me!) Anyway, I had to move out a couple of months early, and they decided to assess early lease termination fees and other penalty fees. By the way, they still had my deposit of $1800. (2 month's rent.) I too knew I would never see the deposit again. During my second-to-last month there, I received a summons on the 15th to appear in court in 10 days for not paying by April 1st. Which was a complete joke, because by the time I received the summons, I had already paid for April, and by the time we were in court on the 25th, I had already paid for May, too. Well, the summons was enough anger to boost my confidence in moving forward with terminating my lease early. The pricks really pissed me off, because I had tried to explain to the landlord I was having financial difficulties and wanted to handle the situation as best as we could, yet she still filed a summons. Ok, pay attention here: at the point when you know you are about to break a landlord-tenant agreement, you need to start gathering ammunition. Dig up those old papers you signed before you moved in, read them thoroughly, and search the web on landlord-tenant law to get a general idea of your rights and your landlord's rights. Knowing I was about to get them angry by terminating the lease early, I started to think about how that landlord agreement could work in my favor. I'll explain later. So, I moved out, left the place spotless, videotaped the apartment so I could prove it was left in a clean and undamaged condition if I needed to (photos work if you don't have a camcorder), and I left the keys in a dropbox, attached to a note basically listing my new address and 3 phone numbers where I could be reached. I never mentioned receiving my deposit back -- I figured that would just about call it even for foregoing my last 2 months. (And I know for a fact now that the apartment was occupied 15 days later by a new tenant, so they made out I'd say!) However, a month or two after I moved out, I received a nasty letter from their lawyer (who deals with a bunch of their rental properties.) The letter basically demanded $4000 or so in penalties and "damages"!!! And get this -- part of the penalty was for me not responding within 10 days to the lawyer's letter.... which was mailed to the address I had already moved out of!!!! Now, what retard would expect me to receive the mail there, when they knew I no longer resided there? They already knew this! I left them a note with my new address, plus THREE phone numbers! To all you landlord pricks out there: (not the decent landlords, I'm talking about the scavengers) don't think you can get away with this. We know you get replacement folks in about 30-45 days, and that includes cleaning, renovations, and advertisement time. So don't get greedy or you might end up regretting it. (I could've pulled the trigger, but I just wanted to get past it -- I had other problems to worry about at the time. But that's not to say someone will come along and sue you for what you deserve to lose!) Ok, that ammunition I was talking about? Here goes..... Most states have something called a landlord's agreement (specific clauses may vary depending on where you live.) This basically says that, for the monthly rent you pay, a landlord is expected to provide certain basic services for the tenant, in a reasonable timeframe, within reasonable limits. And the most important thing to realize here is that failure by EITHER party to fulfill any part of that contractual promise grants the right for the offended party to terminate the lease at any time, under certain guidelines and timeframes. So, just as the landlord has the right to kick you out in x days if you don't pay, so can the tenant leave early if they feel they are not getting the services they are entitled to. Let's face it, all of us have had at least one bad experience with our landlord, who maybe didn't fix a broken {insert your experience here} within a reasonable timeframe, etc. Well, when things like that start to add up, you now have a legitimate case. Just make sure to document your complaints, as this makes the case stronger. When I began to compose a response to the nasty-gram I got from their lawyer, I started to write down the things over the course of 10 months that I was unimpressed by: failure to exterminate after I complained 3 times (this is common), squirrels that got into my walls through a hole they never sealed up properly (ok, this is probably not common), the maintenance guy came to fix one thing but broke another thing in the process (probably happens a lot), air conditioning was broken on two of the hottest days in the summer and they never came to fix it until the third day when the weather finally cooled down anyway (frequent I assume -- document the days it happens), constant failure to procedurally inform me when personnel entered or left my premises (this happens way too often -- stop it by fighting back!), and finally -- get this: public disclosure of private, sensitive information, violating tenant rights and tenant\landlord confidentiality! You know those pink or green eviction notices that they post on your front entrance for you (and the entire world of neighbors) to see? Well guess what? If they didn't post it somewhere discreet, they just violated your confidentiality! See where I'm going with this? How many of the above apply to your situation? I'm sure I'm not the only one who experiened these things. (And I was living in a very nice apartment in a nice community, where they had no excuse to not address these things.) So, I sent ONE (1) effective letter back to the lawyer..... and that was the last I ever heard of them again. Never even hit my credit report either. For the sake of keeping this long-winded reply down in size, I will not post my letter. But it had the tone of "let's call it even and not make this a big deal, or I'll get legal on your @ss and demand a lot more than just my deposit back." If you lay out all the infractions in the landlord agreement, they may decide to never contact you again. Which was just fine by me. Hope this helps. I know it doesn't directly address your questions, but hopefully someone out there in a sticky situation can benefit from the idea. And yes, I think they can sue for whatever damages they claim to have incurred, but I don't think a judge will give them that if records can prove someone already occupied the place. (Utility, phone, etc.) If it comes to that, the judge will listen to your reasons and should be fair. And keep in mind my advice about the landlord agreement! The landlord may try to point out that you just couldn't afford it anymore, but if you fight back about not feeling the lease should have continued because of xyz reasons, the landlord will probably just cut their losses and let you go, because it's your word against theirs. Like you said, they got your deposit, and that's what most deposits are intended for anyway -- insurance just in case this situation happens (as it often does.) As long as you didn't leave the place in a drastically worse condition than when you first moved in. Regards,
1*This basically says that, for the monthly rent you pay, a landlord is expected to provide certain basic services for the tenant, in a reasonable timeframe, within reasonable limits. And the most important thing to realize here is that failure by EITHER party to fulfill any part of that contractual promise grants the right for the offended party to terminate the lease at any time, under certain guidelines and timeframes. So, just as the landlord has the right to kick you out in x days if you don't pay, so can the tenant leave early if they feel they are not getting the services they are entitled to. Let's face it, all of us have had at least one bad experience with our landlord, who maybe didn't fix a broken {insert your experience here} within a reasonable timeframe, etc. Well, when things like that start to add up, you now have a legitimate case. Just make sure to document your complaints, as this makes the case stronger. 2*See where I'm going with this? ernie_j_c ================== 1* The old screw the landlord ploy. 2*I got ripped off just like that so I know exactly where you're heading. THE END ** *** ** LB 59
Excellent post! But there is something that may be even more important among those tenant rights and it sounds to me like it was overlooked in the original posters situation. The fact is that in addition to tenants rights during occupancy/residency, after the tenant vacates the property, the landlord is required (probably in every state) to present to the former tenant, an itemized accounting of all applicable fees/penalties/service charges that are either due or payable to the former tenant. This does not mean that the landlord or property management company simply sends you a letter on company letterhead stating that you owe them $xx.xx amount, but they must itemize all amounts line by line. Better yet, if the landlord fails to follow this tenant, they have basically given up any right to persue claim on any amounts due and should they continue to persue the matter, as in the situation presented by the original poster, then the former tenant can sue for up to 3-times the disputed amount plus applicable legal fees. Lets see, the orignal poster says the landlord wants $4,000, sounds to me like there are grounds to bring suit in the amount of $12,000 plus applicable legal fees! Now the laws in the person who started this thread may be different, but it seems to me that the next step is to contact a lawyer in order to have them draw up a demand letter that states your intentions to sue for the aforementioned damages under the applicable state tenants rights statutes. Inform them you would be happy to settle for them recalling the debt fromt he CA in a specified timeline as well they must present a statement of accounting indicating $0.00 dollars due in order to avoid repeat occurences. On the other hand, if you are feeling particularly inconvienenced, then just contact a lawyer and sue! Michael
About a year ago, I was having a conversation with someone at work about getting eviction notices. This guy told me that he used to be a property manager and that in Ohio, once they give you an eviction notice, THE LEASE IS VOID. Mind you, I don't have any legalese to back this up, but it's worth looking in to. Did they serve you with eviction papers at any time? Tape it to your door? Also, I've noticed that many leases have termination clauses in them such as: 1. Tenant must relocate do to employment reasons 2. Hardship Find an attorney who handles tenant rights and see if you have a leg to stand on. Also, if you still have a friend or acquaintance in your old neighborhood, see if they will go to your old apartment and ask for you. You won't be there, but your buddy could ask "Well, how long have you lived here?" That way, you can find out how long it took for the landlord to re rent the apartment. Just my thoughts.
I wouldn't advocate screwing landlords (unless of course you're physically attracted to them.) I merely support the rights of tenants who become victims of financial misfortune; and on top of that, have a landlord stick it to them even more. Not all landlords are like that -- I've had several amiable landlord relationships before. In the particular case I mentioned, I put up with numerous instances of their poor service and never really put a stink up about it. But then she tries to nail me on a 15-day late payment? After I communicated my hardships with her twice? She chose to throw the curve ball. So I stepped up to bat.... Never strike first. But always strike back.
I think in most cases of this nature would require the Tenant to pay liqudating fees. That would be for the time the apartment was vacant up until the time the apartment is re-rented to new tenant, provided that there were no damage. This amount would equal to about one month rent. The question stands, do they bring you in court? If they did not bring you in eviction court and there were no "standing order of possesion or judgement" in court then you can dispute with an attorney because you were not evicted meaning they can not collect on this alleged "debt." Hell the got the 1,100.00 what more do they want? jervickb@yahoo.com
When I left, I was totally current. I left the end of the month so as not to occupy the apartment for time I would not pay for. I did get a 5 day notice taped to my front door maybe 4-5 months before I bailed because I was out of town and forgot to leave a check before I left. Rent was due 1st and considered late after the 5th. I went to deliver a check on the 6th and they said they would not accept it - said they would only take a cashiers/certified check or MO. Since my credit union was out of state (do all my banking online) I could not give cashiers/certified check and could only get I think $700 cash out of ATM (daily limit) to get MO. I bitched and moaned and the lady took the check but said she would have to check with their attorney whether they could require certified funds. I told them they couldn't. On the 7th, she called me (again I was out of town) and said their atty confirmed they could require certified funds. She then told me that they could use credit card with 3% fee added. I used my debit card (which is good for I think $5k purchase) so I just gave her that. So I guess before I bailed, they techically started the eviction process. Anyway, after I lost my job, I had to stop paying some of the bills but kept the car, apartment, and health insurance all current. Come about the 3rd week of my last month there, I realized I could not cut it. I just packed my things and left on the 30th or 31st. I dropped my keys off....lady in mgmt office said lease did not reach full term...I said oh well....can't stay...and off I drove from IL to NJ. Now....6 months later, I get the first communication from them (actually their agent) in the form on this letter from the CA demanding almost $4000.
Similar situation about 3 yrs ago. Lease was up in November , moved out in end of October(they knew we were leaving) . They had 2 months deposit , $1700, knew we weren't getting any of that back. Landlord rep refused to do walk through, too busy. So, e video taped the apt. FYI I know the law in NJ says if landlord unable to do walk through, pictures taken and a neighbor w/ you who will give a letter (notarized) attesting to the state of apt, is just as binding as a landlords walk through. Neighbor told me later they didn't even enter and start renovating until December (even though they had 3 month waiting list for apts) Here's were we got screwed, while living there the landlords changed (from OK to Satan's spawn) new landlord would do no repairs for current tenants only renovated empties so they could double the rent. DH started tenant assoc. and PO landlord. Have landlord rep stating in transcripts from meetings "current tenants would only get the immediately necessary repairs, no new appliances, if needed they would find replacements from old apts, etc". So we sued them and won. Turns out during months of digging and it wasn't easy, the lawyers they used were part owners. Now we find a $3600 collections from the same lawyers on DH EX. I haven't touched this on yet, I have a feeling they keep better records than most OC. FYI , recently found out that other tenants who were in the ten assoc and moved out after the lawsuit have similar derogs on CR, the few who left b4 lawsuit was completed have had no problems. HUMMM. coincidence ? Sour-grapes? This one is going to be a nightmare , can't tough a mortgage w/ derog rental history.
Well to keep everyone updated....the validation letter which went out last week was already green carded back to me! I sent out dispute to all 3 CRAs today. Is there anything else to do until I hear back from them all or 30 days pass?
I am soooooo nervous.....I know I have to wait 30 days but being my first formal effort to rebuild my credit on my own....I am getting the shakes.....I know with all your help I will be OK.....but just to make sure....can I get a few "IT WILL BE ALLLLLLLRIGHT" affirmations? Did everyone get like this when they were virgins?
IT WILL BE ALLLLLLLRIGHT. Besides, everyone's nervous about their first dispute. I know I wasn't so confident in the early stages of my above-mentioned process, but here's the key: if you feel that you have legitimately been wronged or that the landlord/property owner is being greedy and demanding too much, then you have a solid leg to stand on. Of course, every now and then, a prick judge comes along and pulls the other leg out from underneath you.... JUST KIDDING! IT WILL BE ALLLLLLLRIGHT.
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 Regardless of the reasons why you left, if the property manager did not follow the statutes and send you the required documentation, then their rights are forfiet! So did you even try to contact an attorney/property management to determine if they sent you the required documentation? Although the CA is an irritant, your dispute and legal remedies lie with the landlord. If you go after the property management for their failure to follow state law, they will more than likley settle and recall the dent from the CA ASAP! Michael
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 I never received anything from the landlord. If state law matters, it was in Illinois and I am in NJ now. I even recall making comments to a freind of mine on how nice it was they never went after me, sent a bill, etc... This was 5 months or so after I left. Well....I jinxed myself and a week later I got the first collection letter.....never got anything from the landloard. Of course I did not give them a forwarding address and I did not file a change of address with the PO until 4-6 weeks after I left....didn't know where I would really wind up....I figured all the important mail that I would miss were bills and I check them online and pay online anyway.
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 Still biting my nails! How do you guys do all of this while keeping your cool! I envy you all.
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 Got a notification that the CA involved with this pulled another inquiry with Equifax....don't know about Experian or TU yet......they pulled an inquiry when they first got the account....can they pull another one once they received my validation letter?
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 Got a notification that the CA involved with this pulled another inquiry with Equifax....don't know about Experian or TU yet......they pulled an inquiry when they first got the account.... 1*can they pull another one once they received my validation letter? DLSIZE ========================= 1*No. that's a 1000 $ violation for trying to collect before validating. THE END ** *** ** LB 59 """""""""```~~~```'"""""""""
Re: Re: Broke lease - claim I owe $4000 Thanks for the reply lb....it is a $1000 eventhough it is outside the original 30 day window? Do I do anything now or wait until 30 days from their receipt of the validation letter? When the 30 days does approach....what do I do then?
