CA Purged Records?

Shadowbox · Mar 3, 2003

I sent a validation request to a CA regarding a $59 medical bill, and a week later received a letter stating the date of the original service performed and reference number. That is all.

However, they stated in the letter that I requested this information back in 1999 and at that time a copy of the "statement for services rendered" was sent to me. Apparently the file was purged since then and they no longer have that information.

1. Is this proper validation? If a CA validated a debt already, are they obligated to do so again?

2. The mini-miranda was also printed on the letter, indicating the letter was an attempt to collect a debt. Does this constitute a violation since proper validation was not provided prior to this collection attempt?

3. What are the consequences of them purging a file that is still active?

ms6073 · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by Shadowbox
1. Is this proper validation? If a CA validated a debt already, are they obligated to do so again?

2. The mini-miranda was also printed on the letter, indicating the letter was an attempt to collect a debt. Does this constitute a violation since proper validation was not provided prior to this collection attempt?

3. What are the consequences of them purging a file that is still active?
Click to expand...

1) Well if that was all there was too it then I could simply print off something like that on our laser printer and forward it you for colleciton, right? So IMHO, no, it is not proper validation! Of course if they want to pursue that tact with you then you might want to reply to them that you already paid the debt in question but you have also purged your records for that date (grin)! Beware, the CA may be able to suddenly 'unpurge' the records as well!

2) Since they have yet to validate the debt in accordance with the statues, then yes I think it could be a violation!

3) That means that if they have in fact 'purged' their records system of the appropriate data, then they have no means of validating the debt which would also mean that as such they are not legally entitled to collect on the debt!

lbrown59 · Mar 3, 2003

1. Is this proper validation?
2*If a CA validated a debt already, are they obligated to do so again?
3*Does this constitute a violation since proper validation was not provided prior to this collection attempt?
4*What are the consequences of them purging a file that is still active?
Shadowbox
======================
1*What Validation-I don't see any!
2*Again! Where is the first time?
3*Keep this collection letter - noting like written proof of violations.
4*Theirs or yours?The END ****************** LB 59

Originally posted by Shadowbox
I sent a validation request to a CA regarding a $59 medical bill, and a week later received a letter stating the date of the original service performed and reference number. That is all.

However, they stated in the letter that I requested this information back in 1999 and at that time a copy of the "statement for services rendered" was sent to me. Apparently the file was purged since then and they no longer have that information.

1. Is this proper validation? If a CA validated a debt already, are they obligated to do so again?

2. The mini-miranda was also printed on the letter, indicating the letter was an attempt to collect a debt. Does this constitute a violation since proper validation was not provided prior to this collection attempt?

3. What are the consequences of them purging a file that is still active?
Click to expand...

Shadowbox · Mar 3, 2003

So what is my next step? Should I:

1. Wait

2. Reply that the letter they sent did not constitute validation

3. Try for a deletion by offering to pay the debt in exchange?

Butch · Mar 3, 2003

Re: Re: CA Purged Records?

Originally posted by ms6073
1) Well if that was all there was too it then I could simply print off something like that on our laser printer and forward it you for colleciton, right? So IMHO, no, it is not proper validation! Of course if they want to pursue that tact with you then you might want to reply to them that you already paid the debt in question but you have also purged your records for that date (grin)! Beware, the CA may be able to suddenly 'unpurge' the records as well!

Well ... MS, ... we're gonna need to cover some points here.

While telling the CA that you paid the debt but have purged your records might be fun, it would also have self validated the debt by admitting to the liability. In other words, it would seal your fate as to the remaining number of years for the obsolescence period to expire. Whatever we do we don't want to do that.

2) Since they have yet to validate the debt in accordance with the statues, then yes I think it could be a violation!

Including the mini miranda in ALL correspondence is mandated by the FDCPA. One cannot violate the law by trying to comply with the law. This would introduce a catch 22 for the CA with no way of escape. The court would not go along with this.

3) That means that if they have in fact 'purged' their records system of the appropriate data, then they have no means of validating the debt which would also mean that as such they are not legally entitled to collect on the debt!

In order for a CA to validate a debt he is required to communicate with the OC and obtain information directly from them, (the OC).

Since this is the case it may be possible for the CA to get validation information even though they HAVE purged their records. So we still need to be a little bit careful here.

Please be careful about the advice you introduce, especially with newbies. Even though I know you were just kidding about telling the CA she paid it, a new person may take you literally.
Click to expand...

Butch · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by Shadowbox
I sent a validation request to a CA regarding a $59 medical bill, and a week later received a letter stating the date of the original service performed and reference number. That is all.

The first thing you need to do is begin a provable paper trail. The next item of correspondence should be via CRRR. It should clearly state that they have failed miserably to validate the debt from 1999. In fact you're rather astounded that it's still on your CR, as you thought these people had understood that you've never had a debt for $59 with this OC.

Be creative here. You're not wanting to start from scratch. You're picking up where you left off. Describe the siuation but be careful not to tell them you owe the debt.

However, they stated in the letter that I requested this information back in 1999 and at that time a copy of the "statement for services rendered" was sent to me.

I hope you still have this. As I stated the CA MUST get validation info. directly from the OC. They MAY NOT send you a print out of what they have on their system of records. I wonder, where do you think this statement came from?

Apparently the file was purged since then and they no longer have that information.

1. Is this proper validation? If a CA validated a debt already, are they obligated to do so again?

If the CA did produce proper val. they would not be required to do so again. However, they have not.

To fully understand how validation works, go here:

http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...id=42188&highlight=What+AND+is+AND+validation

2. The mini-miranda was also printed on the letter, indicating the letter was an attempt to collect a debt. Does this constitute a violation since proper validation was not provided prior to this collection attempt?

Nope, but nice try.

3. What are the consequences of them purging a file that is still active?

See above.

The CA's commission on this is $20. They aren't going to want to fight too hard over 20 bux. lol

Oh - and welcome to the board.

Click to expand...

lbrown59 · Mar 9, 2003

Click here: CREDITNET | Straight Talk | | CA Purged Records? Re: CA Purged Records?
Shadowbox | 4 posts since Feb 2003 24.44.66.83 So what is my next step? Should I:

1. Wait

2. Reply that the letter they sent did not constitute validation

3. Try for a deletion by offering to pay the debt in exchange?

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