I recently found this tread and read through 5-6 pages of posts. Really intersting stuff. My problem: CA contacted me about an old debt from 1995, they are not the OC, and it looks like they bought the debt from another CA. I don't remember if I had an account with the OC, but for the sake of argument, lets say I did. They gave me the standard "you owe us XXX, respond in 30 days, ect." Statute of limitations in my state is 6 years. I sen the DV within the 30 days of receiving the CA letter asking for a verification of the debt. I used one of the old DV letters which was about 2 pages in length. (I also sent my reply with a delivery confirmation receipt from USPS) CA responded back giving me the name of the OC and saying: "Seller provide an electronic file of its business records concerning this account. According to seller's records, there was due and payable from [me] to the seller in the sum xxx with respect to the account, as of 2006, there being no known un-credited payments, just counterclaims, or offsets against this account at the date of its sale." They listed my name, last four digits of Soc # and current outstanding balance. Oddly enough, they listed "date account opened provided by seller" but had "N/A" next to that. I sent another DV letter and received the following response: "In our previous letter to you, we requested that you send our company additional information pertaining to the account referenced above so that the Dispute Department could complete the investigation of the alleged dispute. To date we have not received this information and cannot complete the investigation. Since we have not receive this information, we are terminating the disputes investigation pertaining to this account and our company will no longer treat this account as a disputed account. The account is being returned to the collection floor and our rep will be instructed to pursue the outstanding balance due on this account." What should I do next? I pulled my credit report about six months ago (and previously 2 years before this) and never saw anything listed from the OC or CA. Do I send another DV letter, or send a letter stating the SOL has run or something else? I want to protect myself but don't want to get into legal trouble by doing the wrong thing. Thanks for your anticipated response.
Tell them to piss off and cease and desist all communications. It's too old to report and if they sue you, you'd dismiss their claim by pleading the statute of limitations and could potentially prevail with a counter for suing on a time-barred debt.
What CA is this? Seems they sent you a letter saying "In order for us to validate, you have to send us stuff. Since you didn't, we refuse to validate and we will continue collections efforts". That's a no-no. Regardless, you're in the clear, assuming you haven't made any payments / promises on this account in the past six years. They're just trolling you to see if you'll bite and inadvertently re-start the statute of limitations. So your safest bet is to send them this very short letter, word for word: (CA name & address) (Your name & address) (Information provided by them regarding your alleged debt, such as OC / acct # / etc) (date) Dear (CA name) Do not contact me again in regards to the above-referenced matter. Sincerely, (me) As an added footnote, disregard all those "example letters" you see everywhere. All of your letters should be 2-3 sentences, max. All the threats and citations are just a waste of ink.
CA = Portfolio Recov3ry Associates... I was thinking it was odd that they responded to a DV with a "rejection" for verification even though their letter requested no information from me to verify. Is this a violation of the FDCPA? Do you think sending a letter to the CA basically saying to stop contacting me is "awaking sleeping dogs" or something I need to do now to protect myself if this does go to court? I read a few posts stating that if a CA takes you to small claims court the judge only asks if "the debt is valid" and if you answer in the affirmative, they award judgment for the Plaintiff. How do you combat this? Will the judge even listen to the statute of limitations argument? I understand how the federal system words and I can put the SOL argument in my initial complaint if I initiate the action (FRCP 3), or in my answer if I am the defendant, but am worried that in small claims I will get owned as I will never get a chance to bring up SOL because of the crazy docket of small claims judge. Finally, is there any value in preempting filing a suit in federal court (or small claims)? My initial guess is no, as if I file in federal court (under Federal Question as the amount in controversy is less than $75,000 even though there is diversity) the most I can get back is $1k and my legal costs will be much higher as going pro se in federal court is not the brightest idea. Going small claims could backfire as it might cause the judge to ask the question if the debt is valid and as I don't know based off the information, I feel that could work against me. I appreciate the response so far. For me it is better to get more than one opinion before taking further action. I am sick and tired of CA's going after me for debt that a) is not mine or b) debt I paid for or c) debt that is past the SOL. I have to add that two CA's in the past have sent me letters rescinding their claim against me after sending a DV to them. Thanks again!
From what you've posted, it's not a violation to not respond to your request, however it is a violation to continue collection activities without responding. It sounds like they are already awake. If they file, you file a response claiming an affirmative defense of the claim being out of SOL and therefore should not even be before the court. Move for immediate dismissal. If the judge asks, object, repeating that the claim should not even be in the court and therefore the question should not even be asked. In my state, the SOL reads something like "A claim for such and such must be filed no later than six years after something." if they file after that, it's grounds for dismissal. You're making a common confusion between the obligation to pay a debt and the rules to follow for collecting a debt. Don't do that. They are separate actions. Whether or not you owe a debt is independent of whether or not the CA is following the rules to collect on a debt. You want to keep these actions separate in your mind and the minds of anyone who you encounter. Think of it this way. If you borrowed my lawnmower and kept it in your garage, would I have the right, simply because you borrowed my lawnmower, to break into your house and take it? Sure, the lawnmower is mine, but that doesn't give me the right to break and enter. Now if the lawnmower was someone elses, I'd have even less right to break into your garage, right? So it is with CAs. That you may or may not owe on a debt, does not give a CA carte blanche to do what ever they want. They must follow the FDCPA and, if they don't, unfortunately, the burden of enforcement is on the consumer.
Remember, most JDBs (and PRA is the *king* of JDBs) work on margins. They know 99% of the debts they purchase will never be recovered, but that 1% they do recover -- after interest, fees, and other shenanigans -- is enough to ensure a very profitable operation. To that end, you're the recipient of a letter-bombing campaign. They probably just sent out collection letters to everybody with an old, post-SOL account in the hopes that a few people will bite. You did. They will continue trying to collect from you in the hopes that you make a token payment, which would restart the SOL. This is called trolling, and they wouldn't do it if it didn't work. Your best course of action right now is to send a C&D and forget about it. If you are sued -- which I highly doubt will happen -- raise the SOL defense. If the judge asks if the debt is valid, your honest answer is "I don't know". The way the trial works varies from state to state and courtroom to courtroom. The judge isn't going to ask you a question and then bang the gavel after your first syllable -- and if he did, you'd appeal to a higher court. I've spent the last year sitting in on court sessions locally here at the small claims and circuit levels, and I have yet to see anything like this happen. What I have seen -- repeatedly -- is debt lawsuits where both parties get to air their sides, and the defendant offers a "defense" such as "Well, your honor, that was just a really bad time in my life. I got laid off, and then I couldn't afford to pay, and the debt collector was mean to me." That never works well for the defendant. Now, the defendant who can go in and say: ...that's a defendant who's going to win. Your legal argument in small claims doesn't have to be bulletproof, nor do you need page after page of citations and references. But I see case after case (and not just with debts) where pro se litigants show up with excuses instead of defenses. Now, as for filing for federal damages in regard to PRA's violations... That's entirely up to you. It *sounds* like you have a case for several violations, and PRA is a well-funded agency who isn't going to file for BK themselves overnight. You can collect reasonable attorney and court fees, but you will almost certainly have to pay them up-front. Since PRA's violations are so egregious and would almost certainly result in violations, they may very likely settle out of court. A well-prepared letter from a local lawyer may motivate them to just cough up a few grand without going to court. It's worth consulting with an attorney in your area on this -- he or she will be able to look at your paperwork and give you a much better answer than anyone on here, and your initial consultation should be free. But if you don't want to do all that, and you take nothing else from this thread, send PRA a "cease and desist" letter like I stated in my last post. Send it certified with signature required. Do so immediately.
Thank you both. You have answered all my questions and I feel comfortable sending the C&D letter. This forum has proved to be very helpful and I doubt outside consulting legal counsel that I would have gotten such clear responses so quickly anywhere else. I will let you know if they ever respond, but hopefully it will die and go away. Thanks again!
Glad to help! The reason I only post on this forum (though I lurk elsewhere) is because most of the long-time posters here are fairly level-headed. Some forums still hand out terrible advice (I can't believe I *still* see people *insisting* that a CA who fails to respond to a DV within 30 days must give it up forever), but this place took me from terrified lawsuit recipient (which I won, incidentally) to someone who is confident and competent enough to fight off any illegitimate debts. Keep us posted if anything changes.
Sparq is a quality new member. Thank you for joining us here . . . we need all the good information we can get.
