Re: Re: CA won't agree to delete on payment 1*(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; 2*(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer. 3*Notice how many times the section mentions the thirty days. jlindseyjr ============================== 1*This only says the CA can assume the debt's valid. It does not say the consumer forfeits his right to require proof before paying. Assuming a debt is valid does not make it valid that's why you still have the right to demand proof and they will have to provide it or they can't collect it. 2*Since you didn't admit you owed it you must still have the right to demand the debt is legit. 3*They could have said it all in one paragraph. It's still only one 30 days. The 30 days is describing what the CA can or can't do. It is not discussing what the consumer can or can't do either within or without the 30 days. ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
"you do know that you could stop paying them for awhile and it wont hurt your scores, don't you?" -Scores? what about BEING SUED. THEY KNOW you have $$$$. "after you've stopped paying for awhile, and they start getting desperate, tell them you went thru your records, and things just don't add up. no need to give any more detail than that. you can tell them this over the phone," "write them and tell them you now dispute the validity of the debt," -The validation right AFTER the initial 30 days DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COLLECTION AGENCY TO REPLY WITH ANYTHING! "and tell them you'd like to keep everything in writing--no more phone calls" -Your "cease communication" right under the FDCPA IS NOT "Selective" They either STOP or they dont. "that is when you let them know that YOU KNOW that it is THEY who must prove TO YOU that they are legally entitled to collect on this debt." -They dont have to prove anything to the debtor "hopefully, they will send a few letters "attempting to collect a debt" and these will be your first violations on them. this is because after you request validation (the letter you write that says 'hmm...this isnt quite right...i dispute the validity of this debt') the law says they are not to perform any further collection activity until they validate. (you probably already knew that.)" -ONLY if they receive the request for validation during the FIRST 30 days AFTER the INITIAL CONTACT with the debtor FDCPA (b). THIS HAS PASSED -PLEASE DO NOT SEND ITENT TO SUE LETTERS UNLESS YOU ARE ABlE TO ACTUALLY SUE!
VALIDATION VALIDATION Hmm, it seems there is some confusion about this. The validation "right" DOES NOT EVER EXPIRE. A consumer can request validation forever. WHAT DOES EXPIRE, is the "requirements" of the debt collector. If you look at the language of FDCPA 809, http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#809 Section (a) states :"(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --" -Then lists 5 items: " (1) the amount of the debt; (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed; (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; (4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and (5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor." -IF you look at (3), it states : "(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice" -"within thirty days after receipt of the notice", THE NOTICE IS THE NOTICE which is to be sent after the INITIAL contact. -IF we look at (4), "if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period"...."the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt "..."will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector" -NOTICE (4) is CONTAINED WHITHIN section (a) -Now, lets look at section (b). It states "(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a)" -IT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS "within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a)". THE 30 day period described in (a), IS THE 30 days AFTER RECEIPT of the notice. THE notice is "triggered" AFTER THE INITIAL CONTACT. -SOOOO whats this all mean? IF the consumer notifies the collection agency IN WRITING OF A DISPUTE (request for validation), WITHIN 30 days OF THE INITIAL COMMUNICATION with the debt collector, THE DEBT COLLECTOR will cease collection efforts, until verification is sent. -HOWEVER-validation can be requested at anytime by the consumer. BUT, the debt collector does not have to do much -Just my understanding though LOL
VALIDATION forgot to add: -Why didnt congress just say "if the consumer notifies the collector in writing the debt is disputed, the collector will cease collection efforts until they send the verification"?
VALIDATION So one of the main premises of this entire message, validation, is now completely shot out of the water where it concerns a collection agency?
Re: Re: Re: CA won't agree to delete on payment They dont have to prove anything to the debtor 1*ok, then they can prove it to a judge in court crowmom ======================== 1*I agree As I basically said here--------------> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> >< ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
Re: Re: Re: CA won't agree to delete on payment 1*Scores? what about BEING SUED. THEY KNOW you have $$$$. hiding90 ================= 1*Do they have to validate to win the suit.? ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
: CA won't agree to delete on payment -The validation right AFTER the initial 30 days DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COLLECTION AGENCY TO REPLY WITH ANYTHING! hiding90 ============================== But can they collect if they don't ? ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: CA won't agree to delete on payment NO. Validation is only required in the first 30 days. IT IS INDEPENDENT OF ANY COURT ACTION. Civil court requires them to prove "by the preponderance of the evidence"
Re: : CA won't agree to delete on payment YES! THe "cease collection efforts" is ONLY if the consumer dipsutes a debt in the FIRST 30 days after the INITIAL communication with the consumer
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CA won't agree to delete on payment Heya Hiding, I'm not in disagreement with what you're posting about validation and how it works, at least in so far as your "technical" analysis is concerned. I think the way you are explaining it though, leaves many rather confused. Not everyone is as knowledgable as you. We say one thing and you say something else, or so it seems. For example; during the first 30 days the CA is required by law to answer your validation demand. If we demand val. AFTER the 30 days, true, the CA is not [technically] breaking FDCPA law by not answering. So we offer them their choice between 2 options. Provide the proof I demand or get sued. Gawd help a CA who had proof all along but wouldn't bother with you until you get before a judge. I presume you've seen our WHAT is Validation thread. I do need to update but perhaps that might be a great place to further the val. disussion. .
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/busine...s/thursday/business_04264e81f02d606c0049.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Do they have to validate to win the suit.? LB 1*NO. Validation is only required in the first 30 days. Hiding90 ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> Originally posted by lbrown59 The validation right AFTER the initial 30 days DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COLLECTION AGENCY TO REPLY WITH ANYTHING! hiding90 ============================== But can they collect if they don't ? ? 2*YES! THe "cease collection efforts" is ONLY if the consumer dipsutes a debt in the FIRST 30 days after the INITIAL communication with the consumer hiding. *************************************************************************** 1*So then if it goes to court I loose my legal court rights to defend my self against The CAs allsgations simply because I asked the CA for proof after 30 days. 2*So then the CA can just walk into court and say he owes $10000 with out proof and the judge says guilty simply because i didn't ask for proof within 30 days? ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
that is when you let them know that YOU KNOW that it is THEY who must prove TO YOU that they are legally entitled to collect on this debt." 1*They dont have to prove anything to the debtor the law says they are not to perform any further collection activity until they validate. (you probably already knew that.)" 2*ONLY if they receive the request for validation during the FIRST 30 days AFTER the INITIAL CONTACT with the debtor FDCPA (b). THIS HAS PASSED 3*(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; 4*-HOWEVER-validation can be requested at anytime by the consumer. BUT, the debt collector does not have to do much Hide 90 ================= 1*So then who do they have to prove it tr are you saying they can collect with out any proof? 2*The only thing that has passed is the CAs right to assume. 3*If you send them a VL letter after after the 30 days can they still assume the debt is valid???? 4* They do if they wan't to stay out of court. ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
How can I say "gotcha!" and get them agree to a deletion upon payment. Jpeg Jones ============== Sue them. ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
Well, it seems to me, a "paid in full" on an account is a GOOD thing for a credit report. hiding90 | ============================ It don't help scores a bit - so you get to keep right on overpaying on insurance and loans plus you're out the money you paid on the debt. *This is your reward for doing the right thing.Hince the reason this line is included in my signature below. ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
So we offer them their choice between 2 options. Provide the proof I demand or get sued. Gawd help a CA who had proof all along but wouldn't bother with you until you get before a judge. Butch, =============== I f i were the judge I would find against the CA that did that ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> http://www.palmbeachpost.com/busine...s/thursday/business_04264e81f02d606c0049.html ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/busine...s/thursday/business_04264e81f02d606c0049.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Do they have to validate to win the suit.? LB 1*NO. Validation is only required in the first 30 days. Hiding90 ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> Originally posted by lbrown59 The validation right AFTER the initial 30 days DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COLLECTION AGENCY TO REPLY WITH ANYTHING! hiding90 ============================== But can they collect if they don't? ? 2*YES! The "cease collection efforts" is ONLY if the consumer disputes a debt in the FIRST 30 days after the INITIAL communication with the consumer hiding. *************************************************************************** 1*So then if it goes to court I loose my legal court rights to defend my self against The CAs allegations simply because I asked the CA for proof after 30 days. 2*So then the CA can just walk into court and say he owes $10000 without proof and the judge says guilty simply because I didn't ask for proof within 30 days? ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
