Can ca's do this?

3rd party disclosure for telling anyone but the debtor or their attorney or spouse, in a couple of states, is a violation of the FDCPA. They can call and leave a message at a relative or neighbor as long as they dont reveal they are a CA. Unless they are specifically asked for their company name by the neighbor or relative they cannot mention the name of the company if it assume they are a debt collector.

 

IF the CA knows the consumer's information, any third-party communications would not be for the allowed 'location information' exception.

IF the CA leaves a message, IT'S A VIOLATION, sorry charlie, collectman. Even a CA leaving a message on the consumer's answering machine has to reveal (a) their employer's true and complete name; and (b) that the message is an attempt to collect a debt.

They can't provide either of those requisite disclaimers to third parties without violating.

The cases which established those presidents stated that even if they don't DIRECTLY state that they are communicating in regards to a debt, and don't revel the existence of a debt, the purpose of the call is to provoke a communication to occur; so those messages by themselves are communications.

If an answering machine message left on what the CA believes is the debtors own answering machine is a communication requiring the requisite disclaimers, leaving a message in any other manner is as well.

(HINT: This is the subject of 2 of the cases that I have pending... The one COMPANY is even barred by an FTC settlement from engaging in illegal third-party communications, and guess what, they still do it...)

 

if you are talking about foti vs. nco financial you'll find few agencies that are willing to take that risk due to the lack of case law on this matter. the FTC hasnt made any comment or opinion on this matter as of yet. even companies own legal counsel are advising against it at this point.

 

and furthermore, the OP never stated they were leaving messages so they could be talking with someone trying to get a phone number. which is simply skiptracing.

 

So they did leave a message so they were not trying to obtain location information.

Obtaining location information is a one-way street.
"Do you know so & so?"
"Do you know their address & phone #?"
"Thanks have a great day."

No interpretation of obtaining location information can justify using neighbors as POSTCARDS; which is exactly what they are doing when they leave a message with an unauthorized third-party. The only difference, is that if they send a postcard through the mail, the postal carrier is the only person who would see it unless it got mis-directed; with neighbor messages, they are ASSURING third-party disclosure.

 

Actually, the FTC did make a commentary regarding Foti, and the other 2 cases on that issue. The three cases were unanimous; all three cases ruled exactly the same. That is the reason that the FTC could not under law issue an informal opinion on the matter. It's not just one case, there were three cases cited by ACA & the FTC, and with a little research you can find a whole lot more of them.

But the refusal of ACA's request for an informal opinion is a clear opinion. The case law is consistent so there is no discrepancy that the FTC needs to resolve. ACA's desire to have an informal opinion was to back-door a defense, the reliance on an FTC advisory opinion. Not a bad idea, but it didn't work well for them.

Any CA which gambles on it, also runs into another problem, since ACA's July & October issues of Collector Magazine, any ACA member which chooses to ignore Foti, is willfully and knowingly violating the FDCPA, and is failing to take reasonable procedures to insure the compliance with the FDCPA.

 

If you call my house, and hear my answering machine say "Hi, this is (debtor's name). please leave a message." then there should be no reason to contact neighbors, relatives and ex-spouses, right?

Hey, maybe if I sue for all those violations, I'll have something to pay my creditors with!! Keep up the good work, Collectorman and brethren!

 

depends on the type of ca it is...internal collections can use postcards and are not governed by the fdcpa. if there is never an answer at the home number and no answering machine they can call a neighbor for skiptracing.

 

As the OP said, they are saying that they are a CA.

Secondly, even an in-house collector using a postcard risks liability under the consumer's states CPL.

They can *CALL* a neighbor for information, but they can't ask that the neighbor deliver a message to the consumer.

 

what type of ca? 1st party or 3rd? 1st party can send postcards, just look at LabCorp. Thought your medical information was private? i've seen a few postcards from them posted online that surprised me having their collection arm LCA send post cards and it give the companies full name on a postcard...

 

A CA called my neighbor and said this is Don West from Viking here's my number, have her call me. This is third-party disclosure, yes?

 

No. Viking does not identify a CA. They did not disclose any information about the debt, simply skiptracing to aquire information.

 

Thanks... Of course it's not that hard to google Viking Firm and found out who they are.

 

There is also a Viking truck line.

The problem with third party disclosure is usually when the name clearly discloses what they do.

 

True, but google Viking and the phone number they left and it's pretty darned easy to figure it out.

 

It's very easy to do that, however, unless they said Viking Credit, or Viking Financial or something to identify a CA, or they leave a case # or account number, or something to identify there is a debt, there isn't a violation.

 

No, they said "Viking Firm," which is pretty generic I guess.

 

If a CA calls and leaves a generic message such as 'hi this is Rick' and I need you to call me back at 800-IMA-JERK regarding a very important matter or whatever, is this considered "contact" and require them to send you written documentation of your right to dispute the debt they are attempting to collect? Specifically if they do NOT identify themselves as a debt collection agency nor mention in the message that this is an attempt to collect a debt.

 

You'll see it many different views on this. All 4 of our attorneys advise us until there are more cases that we are not to give the MM on an answering machine. Many agencies have adapted and are now doing this in light of Foti, however, many will not due to 3rd party disclosure is very likely. Your father, mother, brother, cousin, or boyfriend could play that message and know I'm contacting you regarding that and sue me for 3rd party disclosure.