Sassy, thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it. They are not old enough to qualify for any kind of AARP. One is 58 and the other is 52. I know that there is no local HUD office and what could they do anyway? I am not real clear on how they could help. I have talked them out of a re-fi for now, our big problem is getting something done quick. They gave very specific directions to their attorney on the chap. 13, he disregarded all of their wishes, I do believe that the extra money that was for the car is now going to attorney fees. I don't know what to do, I bought them a new car in my name and am currently giving them about $1500 a month to help with medications and utility bills. It is breaking us. We have been approved for a home loan and cannot buy one while all of this is going on. We are at the end of our rope and we would just like some kind of relief. Nothing else matters but the house they worked all those years for.
iamsamiam, You've the whole weekend to surf up a plan!!!!! and it's a long weekend so by Tuesday surely you can find someone to make an appointment with for a consultation and advice. I don't like to swear to much of anything online, well because it's online, but I'm near positive you have at least 30 days before you'd even be notified of anything additionally negative. If their payment is just now coming due, they aren't late, you're within a window still to consider other things and make some phone calls. I think AARP may be 55. They have good information for situations such as you are describing nonetheless. I think it is such a focus of elderly and consumer advocate groups because your friend's problems are frequently experienced by the "senior" age group and they don't have the resources to find help. I have government endorsed program hesitations as well, about HUD or any other group for that matter, lol. If you need help though, long term, the government is where you will get it from. They have the information of what is available for them in their circumstances, that's all, I wouldn't necessarily go any further than that. But you have to at least know what is available to them before you can decide what you don't want to do at best. They've an attorney that has already contributed to their screwing, an existing predatory mortgage, and 3 BK's. I think they need someone who is familiar with their situation and circumstance, plus has housing and qualification knowledge, broad knowledge, not that just applies to one lender, and knows what options may be available to them to sit down and help them get some real help. They are used to dealing with people needing help and know who to call. HUD could run interference for them with the lender, 'cause like it or not, the government has clout. Government backed loans have programs the lender's MUST follow before foreclosure to keep people in their house -- even if the lender doesn't have to follow their standards, the mainstream lenders do, so you could find out if they qualify for a reduction, a workout, a forebearance. That's why I suggested HUD, outside of an expensive consumer attorney, I can't think of anyone else who would have only their best interests at heart. All organizations are very sensitive to predatory lending victims these days -- some cities are even putting moratoriums on foreclosures! I know attorney's are expensive but theirs is really taking the cake. He's not only ignored them, he's taking advantage of what they have left -- he should be reported for ethics violations to the bar association, I say, the butthead. They should be able to get help with their medical expenses and utility bills too! No one has pursued that? $1,500 a month you give for meds and utlities!!!!!!!!!! I don't think there's many among us who could afford that for very long, iamsamiam. I'm nodding and nodding again, God bless you, but get them whatever help they qualify for. What about social services? Around here it's Catholic Social Services, I'm not sure if that's the same everywhere. You don't have to be catholic to use them, they just provide the services. If you're nervous about HUD, they'd be able to tell you your options and what you qualify for as well -- including those meds and utilities, I don't know that HUD would know about that. I know there's programs for medication through the drug companies themselves. I'll see if I can find something. Especially for life-sustaining meds, and his certainly are. Have you looked at the websites for your utility companies locally? I'd think they would have information posted about their programs -- they get state and federal monies to distribute it locally to those needing it. And a cram-down, the mortgage companies hate them, but the Trustee could force it. Sassy P.S. Just checked in another window, AARP is 50+, COOL, www.aarp.org AARP is a nonprofit membership organization dedicated to addressing the needs and interests of persons 50 and older. Through information and education, advocacy and service, we seek to enhance the quality of life for all by promoting independence, dignity and purpose.
Sassy, I will see what I can get from the aarp. I will try and answer all your questions here: He is getting $1400 a month from Social Security Disability, there is no prescription drug benefit. Medication runs right at 1200-1300 a month. We have sent off to the drug companies for free medications but have only got discount cards from them, 15% off is better than nothing. The utilites have been disconnected numerous times, the electric was off for 2 weeks, the Salvation Army finally turned it back on. The gas has been disconnected for a year, no heat. We haven't been able to get that back on yet. They have a choice, his medicine to keep him alive or the necessites of life. We choose to buy the medication, he is on very, very serious medicines, he will die without them. I found out that the mortgage company is New Century Mortgage. They cannot get foodstamps or any kind of government assistance, they own their home so that keeps them from getting most assistance. I have been reading the links you gave me, I am going to see what I can do for them, i couldn't have done this without you. Thank you.
I have read and re-read all of the posts on this problem, I do not understand why they just didn't default on their unsecured loans and medical bills. There is total homestead exemption in Ok. so any judgment would not have had them lose their home, even if it were free and clear.Am I missing something? Even now , if they just stop paying on the Ch 13, and just pay their mortgage,they will be ahead of the curve.Have they filed for a loss carry-back on their taxes? As to refinancing,it might be better to consider other alternatives. If the health problems are so bad, and if they have been able to retain their life insurance, they might look for a viatical settlement that would pay off their mortgage and let them live on their ss.
"I have read and re-read all of the posts on this problem, I do not understand why they just didn't default on their unsecured loans and medical bills. There is total homestead exemption in Ok. so any judgment would not have had them lose their home, even if it were free and clear.Am I missing something?" Because they were always staunch defenders of pay what you owe, we just about never got them to file the first bk 7. They were also resonsible for mucho taxes from the business and personal income, you cannot file bk on taxes. I guess how this all started was mortgaging the house to get relief from the IRS, then medical bills etc. It is my understanding that if they quit paying the chap 13 payments that New Century is free and clear to foreclose. I don't know if they can make a deal with New Century, can they even call them to find out what can be done, or is that not allowed since they are in Chapter 13? There is no life insurance, they haven't even been able to keep their utilites on, much less pay life insurance premiums. I was told earlier that $650 of the 13 payment is for the house, if we could just pay that you have no idea how much that would help everything. All we need is just a little breathing room for them, we can make it, but just cannot make it with that big whomping ass payment. It is killing us all. There has not been some good choices made, I also feel that their attorney has given them a royal screwing. All they cared about was saving the house from foreclosure, they were led to believe this was their only option.
If they just pay the mtg. payments themselves, there is NO WAY they can be foreclosed on. They should notify their mortgage company that the payments will be made directly, in addition, they should make sure that the lawyer or trustee hasn't been operating in an illegal and unethical way. They should find a consumer attorney who can perhaps recoup some of what they paid out due to mis-administration and bad advice.In addition, they should check into programs through National organizations like the Amer. Heart Assoc. for help.
Why Chat, the house was in foreclosure when they filed. She told me that she does not think that there has been enough paid since the chapter 13 to bring it current and up to date. Does that matter? She has been told that any dismissal of the bk will result in almost immediate foreclosure. I tend to think this is true, because the day after the first 13 was dismissed the repo man came for their car. This is so confusing. I don't want to advise them wrong and cause them to lose their home.
Also, if one is sick, and the other a caregiver, there are caregiver funds available through medicare & ss.
THANK YOU, Why Chat! That means for iamsamiam, keep on making mortgage payments or wheel and deal with new century and forget about the rest, yes? The worst that will happen is unsecured creditors will get a judgment and put a lien on the house -- but, if you're not moving or selling, the liens will just sit there. Sassy
iamsamiam, I made my payments direct, in fact, I thought that was the way everyone did it. I didn't have payments reduced; however, is that why they are paying through the Trustee for the mortgage? Sassy
If there is a "freeze" on a foreclosure, due to filing the Ch13, although it doesn't sound reasonable, they can't be more than 3 months behind.At the VERY WORSE all they need to do is find out what it would take to catch up on the Mtg. and raise the $$ to do it, that way the people who have been helping thm out will have a one time hit of perhaps 2,000. and they would get rid of the ongoing drain to the ch13.The mortgage co is going to want to deal, as a foreclosure and eviction procedings in this case would be not cost effective.
Sassy, I am not sure what you mean about making the payments direct. The total they pay is $1055, $650 of that is for the house, another $100 or so for property taxes and I don't know where the rest is going. I think it is going to either the house or the attorney, I am not totally sure on that. The bk payment is made to the trustee who disperses the funds. I know that when foreclosure was filed on them that the amount they want with all their fees was huge, it seems like it was $6-7K I don't know how long the payments on the first 13 were made, but know that there has been 5 bk 13 payments made on the current one. That would be right at around $3200 made to New Century. NC was very, very difficult to work with, I don't know that they will want to make a deal but we can certainly try. I have read and read on the SSA government site and do not see anything about caregiver benefits, he does get 24 hour a day care by his wife. I will call the SSA office on Tuesday. The other one is also disabled, not to the extent of the other one, but she has been told that she did not have enough quarters earned to qualify for ss. I read a little about SSI, but I am not sure either would qaulify for that. I am at such a loss here, I don't know where to start. I am going to get her to call SSA on Tuesday and also New Century, perhaps that will be a good start. I will also see what I can find to help them qaulify for more heavily discounted prescriptions. Thank you to everyone that was helpful.
I filed a CH 13 2year ago, and feel pretty comfortable with the rules/regs. You are probably going to have a hard time finding someone to refinance that house. No one wants to touch an existing loan while in CH 13. If you were buying a new home, that would be a different question. You can get a borrower then. What rate is the old mortgage at? If it is a reasonable market rate, you are not going to improve on it by refinancing now. The big question to me is the amount of the CH 13 payment? Did you say it was $1055 on a monthly income of $1400? Sounds like some bad advice from your bk attorney to me. The whole point of the CH13 restructure is that you create a new financial "life" that you are able to live in without the use of credit. I didn't say live comfortably. I don't know how many people are in this family, but $350 for food, gas, insurance, hair cuts, clothing, daycare, etc. is absolutely nothing. That payment should be much, much lower to the trustee. Try that angle and see where you get. That payment can be lowered if needed.
I feel for these people. I really don't see a quick fix here. This is the experiance I have seen personally. A friend of mine went through the same thing. Except that the bk's were due to buisness problems & not helath related. The bk 13 was to save the house. The payments were based on what the buisness's had been making. Since the company's could not go on. Her husband had to get a job. They then in no way made enough to make the payments. Three payments were missed before the trustee even requested a dismissal. At that point they were given the choice to dismiss themselves or have it court authorized. They dismissed on their own. It took the mortgage company another 3 months to re-start forecloser again. Frantically they tried everything to refi. No one would touch them. They then turned to the existing mortgage company & tried to strike a deal. No such luck. The only thing they would do would accept the actual loan amount and forgive the now $40,000 extra they wanted for late fees, attorney's fee's. back taxes, insurance... They tried to sell it. As soon as anyone knows there is a desperate need. The vultures come out. So they started calling local people that buy real estate. in these situations. Their house was apprasied at $198,000. It was sold for the $140,000 owed to the bank. Very sad. Since they had personally built this house from conception to completion. Taking 4 years of their life. It was 11 months from bk dissmal to closing of the house. Maybe someone would be willing to purchase the house for what is owed on the loan & sell back to the people on a land contract or some such thing. I guess out of all this was the one thing learned from this experiance. Which was sometimes you have to let go. The stress of all this can not be good on them physically. It took two years for my friends to recover from the year of hell. They now own their own home again & are back to a normal life. As normal as life can ever be.
iamsamiam, The mortgage was included in the C13, but, the payment was not part of the money that the Trustee distributed. I'm guessing the reason for the difference in payment setups is that I wasn't in foreclosure only behind and declared BK before foreclosure was initiated. I just made my usual payment to the mortgage company on my own, monthly. Your friends must have been in foreclosure when they filed and had all the fees attached, yes? WhyChat is saying in your state there is a 100% homestead exemption -- it's $100,000.00 here. As I understand it, up to $100,000.00 of my home is exempted or protected from the BK and attachment. Meaning I get to keep up to a hundred thousand dollars in equity that can't be taken away or attached. Each state is different but in general, as I am recalling, common other exemptions are a certain amount of cash, work related clothes and tools, retirement accounts, etc. It's an asset that you get to keep, if you had 10 cars and your state allowed 2 as an exemption, you'd have to sell 8 of them and put the proceeds towards your debt -- 2 however, you get to keep. With a C13 however, you aren't liquidating anything, in the end you get to keep all your property and belongings, your debt is reorganized into a 3-5 year payment plan that you pay back. If you get to declare 100% of your home in OK, even with a judgment against them, they'd not lose their home, it is exempt. I know there are ways to modify a payment plan, as Lisa stated, there's a hardship discharge as well. I just wish you had an attorney that was looking at what is best for them -- actually, maybe the attorney is worth talking to, if you know what the options are and he can't pull any punches. Do you have legal aid or something available? It may be worth it to get another opinion on that first attorney and the proceedings via a consultation with another. New Century is horrible and at 11 or 12% already no one did them any favors there, nor considered their ability to pay back that mortgage. They've been pegged as a predatory lender already, maybe they'll not want additional media scrutinizing them and do the right thing and modify that loan. They certainly could as a finance company, beware though, they usually sell their loans and you'll be stuck with a bottom-feeder servicing company :-(. It's good they haven't sold them yet. There's an organization that makes all kinds of noise and has been successful in litigation as well as shaming mortgage companies into modifying loans. They may be worth a phone call, at least they'd be on your side! http://www.acorn.org/acorn10/predatorylending/campaign.htm I'm thinking you'd be best to find a consumer advocate, either via HUD or legal aid or acorn or social services even your local preacher, wherever you can find someone you are comfortable with and feel you can trust. They should be able to keep the BK protection and get that loan modified and then they'd never have to worry about being screwed like this again. Did you check out the Ed Combs link? Let him at least review their loan docs, that's free, surely with 11/12% interest there is more going on with that loan. Did they pay a yield spread premimum (ysp) to the broker by chance in addition to those interest rates? This is truly heartbreaking! It is shameful what these predatory loan companies do, I don't know how a one of them sleep at night or look at themselves in the mirror. You can do this, iamsamiam, don't give up yet. You just have to start making noise and get someone on your side. They are out there waiting for you to call! Sassy WAVING to you sister, Lisa!!!!!!!!! Gosh Becky, it's horrible isn't it, just the stress alone. We should all take some life planning lessons from these stories.
Sassy, They are speaking with their attorney tomorrow, if he does not help them to get this payment dismissed and help them to get their payments lowered right now then they are hiring a new attorney. I reviewed the HUD link you gave me, had they not been in foreclosure then they could have got an interest free loan to cover all the back payments. I looked and looked and did not see anything that else hat HUD could do. I also did not find anything on the SSA site about paying her to give him his 24 hour a day care. They really do new a new attorney, but if this one can accomplish something then I think they will be okay. I don't think he will because it is in his best interest to keep these payments high, I believe this means more money for him. The numbers I gave were correct, the Chapter 13 payment is $1055 and their SS Disabilty check is $1396. We are still going to try to make a deal with New Century, but that doesn't look likely, they would not give them a forebearance or anything to help when they started to get behind. I absolutely will not let them lose their house, I know for a fact that it would probably kill one of them. The stress would be too much with the current heart problems. Thank you all for trying to help. I hope I will be able to post some good news tomorrow.
iamsamiam, If they can take advantage of the home exemption in OK, surely the attorney knows the details, help them to take it and not let it be a matter of pride. Situations like theirs is just what it's designed for. Looking forward to the good news. Sassy
Sassy, they would only have to worry about the home expemption if it was possible to have judgments against them, correct? The homestead exemption doesn't have anything to do with the chapter 13 and the house, does it? I just reviewed their loan papers with New Century and they are truly shameful, almost $6000 in broker fees when she called in to their call center after seeing an advertisment on tv, they didn't know about those until they went to sign the papers. The interest rate is 12.99%, I just fired off an email to that acorn.org I am hoping they can help with the actual contract.
No, the exemption only comes into play if there is equity in the property. i.e. you file for a ch13 with debts of $100,000. You own your home & only owe $20,000 on a $120,000 debt. The $100,000 of equity you have in the home is protected against all predators under the homestead laws. Without the homestead provision, the court/creditors could force you to sell (or foreclose) and keep that equity to settle debts. The homestead provisions isolate that equity and protect your right to it regardless of the debt. I am proud to be a TEXAN! One of the jokes about Texas, and I'm thankful of this fact, is that the homestead laws are written so staunchly that there hasn't been much change since literally the days of cowboys and indians! Only in the last few years was it even legal to solicit/receive home equity loans in Texas! check the laws of your state and find out what the provisions are. Maybe there will be some help there. I HATE MORTGAGE COMPANIES!!! THEIVING SCUMBAGS!
