Charge Offs

Protect your bank acouunts

OK... if you are delinquent on a debt, or are headed that way, you must take some simple steps to protect yourself againsts CA's.

One of the simplist is to password protect your bank accounts againts online and phone balance inquires.

One of the previous posters mentioned the CA knew his account balances. How do you think he got that? He knows your name,your account, your phone, zip, your SSN, and probably other information about you. He simply calls up the bank and asks them for his balance. They verify with SSN, phone number, etc, all of which he can answer.

The solution is to put a a notation on your account that there has been a fraud attempt and that only a special password is valid. Make up a password that even you will forget.

I treat CA's as crooks and extortionist who are using inside information and indentity theft fraud to beat you into giving them money. No different that kidnappers in my books. I am even willing to go so far as to book extortion and fraud charges against them.

Think about it. You don't know them. You don't conduct business with them. They impersonate you to illegally get information. Then they demand money from you and threaten you with harm if you fail to pay them immediatlly. Sounds like a criminal to me.

 

Most times the original creditor sells or contracts the balance due, so simply going back to 'deal with the original creditor' won't work.. They won't/can't deal with you anymore....they will take your payment, however.. =)

 

You may be right on the sometimes, but I'm sure it's most of the time.

I've had it happen several times in the past that even though the original creditor sold the debt to a collection agency, I wrote the C&D letter and paid the originating creditor instead.

Yes, they took the money, but more importantly, even though they no longer owned the debt, in all instances they were the ones who'd reported the charge-off and also had it removed when I went back to them.

It's worth a try.

 

I have an AMEX account in their in house collections (Schwartz & Schwartz) and they've used threatening remarks to try to get me to pay. I am going to pay, however, I have been trying to negotiate them to report my account as "Paid" instead of "Collections Account". (I'VE READ OVER AND OVER TO NEGOTIATE FOR A NEGATIVE REMARK REMOVAL BEFORE MAKING A PAYMENT.) I asked them to get AMEX to report this, and the rep became extremely nasty. Actually she was giving me ultimatums such as, "you better PAY or...". I don't want to deal with them. I rather deal with AMEX directly. How should I go about this?

I'm really concerned.

 

The only frustrating thing I have found about charge offs is that mine occurred in 9/97 before the law went into effect changing the time a creditor can report from last activity to the initial charge off etc. So basically, now that the debt is 4 1/2 years old, if I pay it, I end up being screwed for another 7 years or 11 1/2 years total. It is really frustrating because it is screwing up my ratios and basically holding me hostage by preventing me from getting another card to help with the total credit limits. AHHHHH!!!!!

 

Neither Amex nor Swartz & Swarts (or whatever their name is) are hard to deal with.

I have yet to find a collection agency or creditor I could not deal with in such a fashion that they forgor about or paid the bill (whichever happened to be applicable at the time). And then I make them take it off the credit report for me. Like it or not. They either do it or else they just might get sued and I've yet to find one that wants to stand up in front of a jury and explain why they broke the law.

It's that simple.

 

By reading some of these posts one would think that the deep pocket creditors are the cause of all their misery, that these creditors should compensate them for their lack of personal responsibility. One thing I have learned through my own experience of bad credit is that it only got that way because of my own doing. And the only way to recover from that is to learn how to be more impeccable with my finances. Once someone develops a conscience a trip to bbauer.com to wipe away his or her commitments is a pretty bankrupt thought. This gentleman may have a list as big as his ego but buyer beware; youâ??re going to get what you pay for. Remember the old saying "what comes around goes around".

If you have a debt and can pay it, honor it. If you won't pay don't sulk because you can't play.

Mahalo,
PuuOoPaul

 

That is not always the case. There are circumstances which have nothing to do with personal responsibility. I know of many people who are honorable and feel a moral obligation to pay their debt and find themselves unable to due to circumstances beyond their control - Everything from becoming totally disabled to having been employed in an industry that suddenly closes its doors without notice to employees - and finding themselves jobless.

Some of the responsibility DOES lie with deep pocket creditors and their predatory lending practices. It is well documented that credit card companies target those with lower income such as students and the working poor, with the intent of offering a limited amount of credit at exorbitant interest rates. Average interest rates now exceed rates that were considered "USURY" and were illegal not so many years ago. Credit card companies will often offer ultra low interest rates for balance transfers or new customers and then should a payment be ONE day late - increase the rate by enormous amounts. I recently looked at one 9.9% offer that indicated, after sorting through the legalese, one single late payment would cause an increase to 37%.

I won't even get into a discussion about card issuers such as Cross Country Bank.

I will grant, that there are many in this country that have wrecked credit due to irresponsibility - however - this is not always the case. I find your comment rather insulting to those hard working people who do have a sense of morality and responsibility and are in a situation due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

By reading some of these posts one would think that the deep pocket creditors are the cause of all their misery,

ALL of their misery? A dubious but never-the-less interesting thought.
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that these creditors should compensate them for their lack of personal responsibility.

That depends upon whose personal responsibility one is discussing. Debtor and creditor alike have personal (and moral) responsibilities.
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One thing I have learned through my own experience of bad credit is that it only got that way because of my own doing.
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Well, that is indeed commendable. At least you learned something. It is a start, but you still have a lot to learn.
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And the only way to recover from that is to learn how to be more impeccable with my finances.
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I must admit that impeccability with one's own finances has a lot of merit and is indeed commendable.
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Once someone develops a conscience a trip to bbauer.com to wipe away his or her commitments is a pretty bankrupt thought. This gentleman may have a list as big as his ego but buyer beware; youâ??re going to get what you pay for Remember the old saying "what comes around goes around".
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A trip to bbauer.com should not be considered a trip for the purpose of skipping out on either ones moral responsibilities nor one's debts, but rather a trip to obtain some much needed relief from those who cast their moral stones while simultaneously heaping abuse after abuse upon us.

That small list is nothing more than a few paltry examples of what can happen to creditors and their minions when they fail to understand and accept the fact that we are a nation of laws and that debtor and creditor alike must obey the laws of our land lest we become a dictatorship or an anarchy.

Despite all your sanctimonious cries about how debtors should live up to their moral obligations to pay, you forget that creditors also have the moral obligation to abide by the law and pay for their transgressions too. So did all those on my little list.

If you have a debt and can pay it, honor it. If you won't pay don't sulk because you can't play.

That's great advice, Paul, but it applies equally to both the creditor and the debtor. While the debtor has a debt to the creditor, the creditor also has an obligation to treat the debtor in a fair and respectful manner. Just as the creditor has a forum in which to address his greviences against the debtor, the debtor also has that same forum in which to address his grieviences against the creditor who has wronged him. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

What is so hilarious is the fact that those who are so quick to preach to us about our moral responsibilities and run for the courthouse door like wolves after a rabbit when we transgress against them start squealing like stuck hogs at the slightest hint that they might get hauled into court for the purpose of answering for their gross failures to live up to their moral obligations to us. It's a two way street as you said..

Best you put your moral rocks aside Paul and learn that who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones.

 

Right! And what about the very real mistakes? I have had to correct a mistake on one of my credit reports almost every month. After having my DOB changed to 1919, now they have my current address as:

,NORFOLK,VA,

I am getting calls from creditors wanting me to update my information, and I got a creditwatch notice that creditors are checking my address. WTF???

Paul, after everything you have read here, how can you make a blanket statement like that? There are people here who are evading responsibility. Ignore them.

Most are dealing with backwash from some devasting event in their lives, and many are dealing with errors, mistaken identity, ID fraud, venomous ex spouses, fraudulent charges where the CCC does not have their act together, insurance companies that didn't pay their claims, and numerous other issues that have nothing to do with the individual's conscience or ability to pay.

breeze

 

Breeze:

Sorry to have to let you in on a few sad facts of life.

Paul and his ilk do not understand or care about you or your problems. They are totally irrelevant to the greater good. He and his cohorts must feed both their wallets and their egos by preaching to us about our sins.

How can you fail to understand such a simple concept as that which commands that we must always do right by "them"??

It does not matter about our personal problems. THEY have no fault. You must always remember that they all wear great white robes and bow to their great position in life. We have sinned and must pay the price.

Shame on you for your failure to understand that the only thing that matters is THEIR problems.

You just need to learn that you must always accept YOUR moral responsibilities and never question or demand that they also live up to theirs. They are above the law and they attempt to prove that every day.

NOW GO IN PEACE AND SIN NO MORE.

And above all else, be sure you never, never visit bbauer.com. After all, if you do, you might get subjected to bbauer's ego trip and that might prove injurious to THEM.

BTW, if you can find http://www.bbauer.com please let me know. I just tried it and my browser can't find that URL.
Do you think maybe I ought to go register that domain name?


LOL

 

I agree with Bill and Breeze. Paul, while he has good and interesting points, is making a blanket generalization here. Most of us would in fact love to take care of outstanding debts that perhaps we were unaware of. It is not our fault if no one ever contacts us from the CA. However, the structure of the asinine law prior to 1/1/98 makes it a penalty to resolve debts that came into existence before that date. They require a lot more finesse. I see no reason why a person should pay a debt and then be forced to endure another 7 years of credit hell. If the creditor won't work with you, the only option left is to wait it out.

 

kbelle72

Yes, but in this example, and in far too many others as well is the question of morals and their application to any given situation.

On one hand we have the moral obligation to pay our bills in a timely fashion or at least pay them off, timely or not.
Paul makes that point although with little or no finesse.
Be that as it may, he does make valid statements.

On the other hand, all of us, Paul included, also have the moral obligation to be good citizens in all aspects of our daily lives, and in attempting to be the good citizens we all aspire to be, we often find ourselves on the horns of one or more moral dilemnas. When we find ourselves so impaled, we usually tend to view the situation in terms of what benefits us the most.

That is precisely what Paul has done here. And in so doing he fails to consider the fact that it is morally incumbent upon us to not only be good citizens and obey the laws of our land but to help ensure that others also obey them.

And that is all that I attempt to do, help ensure that Paul and his ilk obey the laws of the land and do what is morally right in exactly the same spirit that he and his brethren attempt to ensure that all debtors obey the law and do what is morally right.

He and his kindred have no computctions whatever about adding to the misery and heartache of others by adding all manner of "fines" and penalties and usurious charges as well as multitudes of abuses they can and do heap upon an already burdensome situation and then scampering to the nearest courthouse to beg on bended knee for the protection of their local magistrates,

But let us demand equal protection under the law and just retribution for the wrongs we suffer and all of a sudden the worm turns and we are denounced for being moral reprobates.

It all depends upon whose ox is being gored, don't it?

It is both lametable and reprehensible, however, when one turns to slams and personal attacks in a vain effort to sway the minds of others.

Let the law apply equally to all, for all are subject to the law and none are above the law.

 

Brian:
Your question
________________________________________
Now I have a question... If I pay them back, a little every month, even it's only $50 some
months can they do anything to me. I need to pay it, I owe it... but if my rating is going to
stay the same, why should I go broke trying to pay them faster?
________________________________________

Over the course of years of experience, I have heard it said time and time again that if one pays them any amount whatsoever on a bill and they refuse to accept the payment as being too little or they dislike the form in which it was paid, in pennies for example, and refused the payment the debt was null and void and uncollectable.

I happen to know of cases where creditors were accepting say $10 a month on a rather small bill (couple of hundred, maybe) and so sent it to a collection agency who would not accept the previously agreed upon $10 per month either and went to court and won judgement, probably because the debtor failed to show if for no other reason.

I don't have a definitive answer to your question based on what the law says and the law may very well be different from state to state. But based on what I have seen happen, I'm going to say that if one wishes to avoid court proceedings and possible judgement one should consider the concept that if one does not take some sort of positive action to build a paper trail and a positive defense then one should expect to have to pay the piper so to speak.

This is another of the multitudes of reasons why I say never to speak to a creditor or collector on the phone after the situation becomes hostile and serious collection efforts are in place by the creditor or collection agency. In this example, if one makes and agreement with a creditor or collection agency by phone then one should demand that it be reenforced by means of them putting the terms of the agreement in a letter mailed to your home. Then one should be very careful to keep the letter in a safe place and maintain a careful record of all payments to the creditor.

Those collection letters that many folks receive and simply throw in the trash due to the fact that they have no money to pay with and maybe have no present hope of paying should never be thrown in the trash. They should be guarded as the precious treasures they might become in the future in case they might become necessary in building a court defense.

 

To all those who felt attacked please take note of the original post. The gentleman states "..It seems to me I should pay it, but only if it shows as paid on my credit report..." In one of my previous posts I stated that he should work with the creditor to pay it back. The gentleman is stating "...but only if it shows as paid on my credit report..." What did I say in any of my posts that it should be stated otherwise? I made no comments as to how anything should be reported.

It was the comments that followed that I was in disagreement with. It was Mr. Bauer that said

Don't pay them a crying dime.
They can't garnish your wages until they take you to court and get a summary judgment

End up where they eat the debt in it's entirety and take if off your credit reports too.
And never pay them a crying dime in the process because you will be very sorry if you do.

Other comments followed from others that from my point of view downplayed the threat of being garnished. The original poster said he was contacted at work and that he had the ability to pay $100.00 per month. If this gentleman and others in his same situation who have a job and the ability to pay, then why should the ca not consider the option of lawsuit and garnishment if they do not pay? Yes you may not like caâ??s and you folks might have legitimate complaints about a particular ca but you cannot make a â??blanketâ? judgment that caâ??s should not collect and that they should just leave people alone. If it werenâ??t for these horrible businesses recovering $â??s for the creditor those same creditors probably wouldnâ??t be extending a lot of us here credit. What would their interest be to extend me credit, with a tarnished history, if their chances of recovery were nil? I would suspect that if they did current interest rates that we bicker about now would be a drop in the bucket.

In my last post I stated â??if you have a debt and can pay it, honor it.â?? I didnâ??t imply that if you are on your deathbed with tubes hanging out your mouth that paying â??ABC Creditâ? should be your top priority. If you have a debt and can pay why wouldnâ??t you? Yes there are times when people do fall behind and/or have catastrophes. Along with most ccâ??s and loans there are usually insurance options for these particular situations. If people fail to accept these then be prepared to pay the consequences. If you find them too expensive or if theyâ??re not offered, shop elsewhere.

Even if you donâ??t have unemployment insurance for example, a ca wonâ??t be hounding you the day after your layoff demanding payment. Most creditors will float these for six months before they charge it off and send it to a ca. And yes I do know that not all of them give six months, but most of them realize that if you can turn your finances around they will make more money off of your 20% interest than having to pay 40% to a ca to collect on your debt. In one of my original posts I stated that I personally thought this was ample time for one to make alternative arrangements to avoid collections. Granted many of these are not magic pills that will give you a stellar credit rating but one must do what he has to work with in the moment. I for one would rather be tarnished with a credit counseling status now than a garnishment six months from now. In which scenario would the creditor be more willing to report a satisfactory on the cr?

And for you Breeze Iâ??m sorry that your credit report states you live in Norfolk. My occupation as a bill collector is in no way an endorsement for the entire credit industry any more than your quest for credit repair is an endorsement for some cheesy credit clinic. Perhaps you were responding to another thread. My only point was and still is, if someone has a debt and can pay it, why not honor it? Iâ??ve lived long enough to know that taking responsibility for my own actions carries a lot less karmic debt than contracting some credit witch doctor to do it for me. Itâ??s this same philosophy that I take with me to work. Of the thousands of accounts that I have I only deal with a few hundred. It is impossible for one person to handle all those accounts. Some I have never been able to reach and never will. Itâ??s just their fate. Of the ones I do locate and sue it is their fate. I donâ??t believe that if I located them and then just left them walk away that I would be doing them, me or my employer a service. And if you have an account with my company it would be a disservice to you.

Thank you and good night,
PuuOoPaul

 

Thank you.

 

Most people do not object to paying what they owe if it is at all possible to do so. I think that you have the capacity to understand that when people fail to pay it is normally either due to some personal catastrophy beyond their capacity to control or poor planning on their part,

There are, of course, professional deadbeats who deliberately go out and create debt with the sole purpose of defrauding creditors. Those, however, are few and far between.

I can well understand your displeasure with those who claim to have some black bag of magic spells which they cast upon credit bureaus miraculously removing any and all traces of debtor infidelity leaving them with a spotless credit report. We all know that it just isn't so.

What I fail to understand is your attacks upon myself because I don't do credit repair.
What I do is to help people defend themselves against bill collectors who abuse those they would attempt to collect from by constant and unwarranted and abusive harranges over telephones, by letter, personal contact, actions which endanger their source of livelihood, disrupt their personal lives causing divorce and breakup of the family and other completely anti-social activities so often engaged in by bill collectors. I do not even accept the pleas of those who have not in some manner been abused by such sleazeball bill collectors. I had a gentleman call me yesterday wanting to enlist my services. He explained his circumstances to me and he had lost his job with little hope of obtaining new employment mostly due to his age.
He expects to retire in another 2 or 3 years. His bills are all current and no one has contacted him in any collection actions whatever. He was so frightened by what he was about to face in terms of torment from bill collectors that he was ready to go file bankruptcy on a rather small amount of money owed. My advice to him was that he use the money that he would otherwise pay a bankruptcy attorney to pay his bills as best he could and continue to look for gainful employment no matter how impossible that might seem to find at the moment and to not even think about bankruptcy or hiring someone such as myself because he had not been abused nor had his rights been violated in any way. In otherwords, I told him to keep his money in his pocket and work to keep his bills in the best shape he can. The whole point here is that he was scared out of his ever-lovin mind over what was going to happen when he fell behind and he wished to prevent that at all possible costs.

Now then, I maintain that people need whatever help they can get to protect themselves from any industry which has gone to such extremes in the conduct of their enterprise as to induce such sheer terror in the minds of the populace has no grounds to complain when others take action to curb their vicious attacks and make them pay the price for the damage and hurt they inflict on others.

Your posts would seem to indicate that you think that such tactics are perfectly acceptable and that no one has a right to defend against, complain about or enlist the aid of those who know how to defend against such acts of sheer terrorism.

Is that your stance?

If not, then please exclude me from your irrelevant attacks.

 

What is your advice regarding CA's that have never contacted you? I would like to at least know what they are regarding, but I'm terrified they will start harrassing me once I send a validation letter. The last thing I want is my phone ringing non-stop and threatening letters being sent. I only have three, one of which is paid, but I have no idea what the other two are.

 

kbelle72

What is your advice regarding CA's that have never contacted you?
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If they have never contacted you in any way, they are not much of a threat. They can, however, have quite a nuisance value if they have reported on your credit bureau files. That becomes another matter.
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I would like to at least know what they are regarding, but I'm terrified they will start harrassing me once I send a validation letter. The last thing I want is my phone ringing non-stop and threatening letters being sent. I only have three, one of which is paid, but I have no idea what the other two are.

I can well understand your fears. But the two you have no idea who they might be could turn out to be very pleasant surprises. What if they don't know any more about it than you do? In that event, they have caused you much mental stress and anxiety and have defamed your good name. That can easily be worth maybe 5 to as much as a 100 thousand depending upon how good you might be at convincing a jury how you have almost fretted yourself to death over this matter and can't sleep at night worrying about it and how you can't get good mortgage rates so you can't buy a house and whatever else you can dream up and come fairly close to proving.

And a carefully and properly crefted validation letter instructs them not to call you at all. If they do, then there is more grounds to sue them on. And if they do, not to worry. You simply tell them right off the bat that you will not discuss such matters over the phone and hang it up. Be done with them. And if they have received your properly crafted validation letter telling them they may not contact you and they do so then that is still another reason to sue them.

I never recommend actually sueing them however and most especially not unless you have proper legal counsel to handle the case for you. But you sure can scare the daylights out of them to the point where they will do just about anything that you demand such as getting off your back totally and completely in exchange for your not sueing them for a few hundred thousand or whatever. I never threaten for that much. In fact, I never mention any amount at all. It's not necessary to do so.

There is no need to fear them. They can only do so much and that is pretty limited compared to what you might potentally do to them if they cause you too many problems.

THe only real problem is that the collectors know full well that the vast majority of people are scared out of their ever-lovin minds at the mere thought of a phone call from a bill collector and they feed on that fact and usually do all that they can to enhance that fear to the maximum.

I just love it when they tell me they are going to send me to a collection agency. I tell them, go ahead. Make my day! If they threaten to sue, I ask them if they realize they just committed a serious felony offense. That gets their attention real quick. Then I'll tell them that it's against Federal law to threaten to sue someone when you obviously have no real intention to do so and if they really intended to do so, they would have already done it. I tell them that it's against the law to tell someone that they will be sued unless the papers have already been filed. And then I break the news that I have proof of their criminal act right here on my tape recorder.

You know what is the most common thing I hear after that???? CLICK!

No need to be afraid of them.