Chase Repricing

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by RichGuy, Sep 26, 2003.

  1. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    With this month's Chase statement, I also received one of their ubiquitous repricing notices, part of their interminable campaign of harassment against me.

    My little $1000 account, with a $955 balance, was deemed such a threat to the continued survival of their bank that they felt it necessary to raise the rate from 15.99% to 22.99%.

    So what do I do now?

    I could close the account to lock in the 15.99% rate.
    I could try to get Retention to restore or even go lower than the old rate.
    I could keep the account open at 22.99% and continue to pay it off at $40 per month.

    I like having the account. After 3 1/2 years, the perfect account history really helps. And I want to upgrade the terms, once all the reports are clean and once my total utilization goes below 50%. At that point, having an older account might help me upgrade the terms. Maybe?
  2. dogman

    dogman Well-Known Member

    I'd say keep the account. RichGuy they all seem to be doing this.

    It seems clear that banks are doing this more and more - but keep up the excellent payments.

    Your strategy is correct - the reports will clear or get better and then you can choose a cheaper offer.
    But Chase is a great reference as you know.

    RichGuy - it seems so many banks are snapping people in with low offers - then just wait like a predator for a balance to either accumulate or a balance transfer - then - boom - raise the rate!
    What the hell, it is a prudent business decision and all banks seem to do it.

    Look at those poor dogs who started at 21% and got jacked to 24-28% !

    Later - dogman
  3. dogman

    dogman Well-Known Member

    REPRICING - what a great term. It doesn't mean less....
  4. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Yes, I do need to find a new term for this type of thing.

    How about: Gouging? Fraud? Extortion?

    Salmon P. Chase must be rolling over in his grave. Sleazy gangsters break contracts at will and use his name to cover their identities. I wonder what we'd see if we pulled Experian reports on THEM?
  5. 8004me

    8004me Well-Known Member

    Sooner or later these banks will discover that this is not the way to build a long-term profitable consumer relationship.
    I must admit Chase has been good to me but they need to take a look at what their competitors are offering ala BOFA
  6. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Exactly right.

    The tougher they are on me now, the tougher I'll be on them later.
  7. iambroke

    iambroke Well-Known Member

    Probably the reason they raised your rate is they pulled your credit and found something (who knows what!) they didn't like and decided to jack it! It happend to me but with Nextcard. I immediately closed it out and trashed that card.

    I have Chase platinum and perfectcard right now. The platinum is 7% and the perfectcard heck if I know what the interest rate is. I pay my CC's in full so it really doesn't matter.

    But if you don't like the rate just find a better one and transfer the balance. Or pay it off and don't carry a balance then the interest rate won't matter one bit.
  8. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Chase Repricing

    All the above.
  9. jaytee

    jaytee Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Chase Repricing

    chase also changed my terms. i had a balance of over 400 of the 500 limit for a few months with 60% utilization on other cards. when i realized i should have a utilization of below 50% i paid my balances down. so as soon as i made the payment to chase of $250, they lowered my limit to $400. i just then paid it off and canceled it since it was one of my newer cards anyway. there is a prime example of how they dont want to make money. they lower the limit on a perfect account because of utilization on other cards and loose money because they dont collect as much on interest.
  10. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    A few points are in order:

    (1) It isn't just that I "don't like the rate." The rate is excessive and unjustified, and actually interferes with my efforts to repay the balance.

    (2) It isn't always easy to "just find a better one and transfer the balance." Maybe I can in the long run, but in the short run I was depending on Chase to honor their contract with me.

    (3) I can "pay it off" in the long run, but not in the the short run. And their price gouging makes repayment more lengthy and difficult.

    (4) They may have broken the existing contract because of inquiries. (Everything else on the Experian report has improved.) Any efforts to "just find a better one" could lead to more inquiries and give another predatory bank a pretext to extort excessive interest from me.
  11. iambroke

    iambroke Well-Known Member

    I hate to disappoint you but credit cards are not contracted rates...they can be changed anytime for any reason. Have you read your disclaimer? They are not fixed unless they say so.

    And you can not blame them when you charge the card to close to the limit and expect them to not notice. Maybe that is why they raised the limit? Have you even asked them for an explanation?

    I have a few credit cards...I refuse to fall into their trap and interest rates so I pay them in FULL every month. If they raise the rates then who cares. It doesn't affect me or my finances and I control them more then they control me.
  12. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    That's quite all right. You didn't disappoint me at all. It was Chase that disappointed me, by breaching our contract.

    Interest rates CANNOT be "changed anytime for any reason." That's pure propaganda, straight from the source. Some of the sleazier banks do have clauses that allow such a thing, but Chase has never dared to go that far.

    Chase does it the old-fashioned way, by violating one contract at a time. They simply write a new contract and then give you the options of continuing to make charges, which supposedly constitutes acceptance of the new contract; or closing the account to keep the old terms. But the higher rate does require a new contract with new terms.

    If Chase could legally change my rates at any time for any reason, they wouldn't have given me the option of closing the account first. They would have just changed the rate first, and then adopted your cavalier attitude of "pay it off and close it." I'm sure they feel that way, but the existing contract restrains them from putting it into practice.
  13. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    A few points are in order here:

    (1) Yes, I can blame them. I do blame them.

    (2) If I charge the card close to the limit, I do expect them to notice. I expect them to bill me for the charges, plus the contractual interest. I don't expect them to throw out the contract just because I use my available credit. If you can't use it, then it really isn't available credit, and the account agreement and monthly statements are fraudulent.

    (3) They deliberately made it difficult to learn the purported reasons for their decision. Instead of telling me directly, with the repricing notice, they want a separate letter from me asking for the reasons.

    I hope you'll forgive me that I haven't been able to write them, wait for the letter to reach them, give them 30 days to respond, and wait for their reply to reach me, all in less than 24 hours.

    In addition, they will never tell me the real reasons for their decision. They will only cite pretexts based on the Experian report.

    I'm convinced that the real reason they repriced me this time is that I kept the account open after the last repricing. In other words, they're bullies who seek victims who offer no resistance.

    Why didn't I offer any resistance? Because I wanted to keep an established perfect tradeline. Because I couldn't pay off the balance immediately. Because I still trusted them to treat me fairly.

    The fact that I couldn't pay off the balance immediately in no way justifies their extortionate tactics. If it did, then carrying a balance would have to prove that I could never repay the balance. Which it doesn't. My income is sufficient to make the monthly payments, and far more than the minimum, but not sufficient to repay all balances immediately. That's normal and natural.

    I feel no guilt whatsoever about buying on credit when necessary and paying interest on the balances. That's a normal business transaction. Altering contracts based on the lack of bargaining power of the other party is not a normal business transaction. At best, it's gouging. At worst, it's fraud.
  14. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    1* If I charge the card close to the limit, I do expect them to notice. I expect them to bill me for the charges, plus the contractual interest. I don't expect them to throw out the contract just because I use my available credit. If you can't use it, then it really isn't available credit, and the account agreement and monthly statements are fraudulent.
    3*At worst, it's fraud.
    1*This is the same as buying a car for $20000 but when you go to the dealer to get it he jacks the Rate (car) to $25000 because you (utilized it) Picked up or used what you contracted or paid for.
    2*Legal fraud at that.

    THE END ** *** ** LB 59
  15. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    If you can't use it, then it really isn't available credit, and the account agreement and monthly statements are fraudulent.
    They agreed to give you x amount at X interest rate but when you went to obtain it, it was not available at the terms both you and they agreed on.
    Could this be considered breach of contract

    THE END ** *** ** LB 59
  16. iambroke

    iambroke Well-Known Member

    Credit cards and auto loans are separate issues.
    Normally auto loans are fixed and rule of 78 goes into cards aren't fixed and can change whenever. I have never seen a CC contract but a CC disclaimer that if you read the mice print it will state interest rate can go up if they see fit-pull your's out and read it). Some raise rates for late payments, some raise rates by just pulling your credit report and seeing you're overextended, etc...
    If they were fixed then how could people call and get the rates lowered? I have done that with Chase before...from 12% to 7% for just asking.

    I just don't see where a CC has a contract attached as I've applied online for CC's before without signing anything, not even electronically. They determined my interest and I know if I don't live up to the payments, rates will change.

    CC interest rates and credit limits depend upon your credit along with other things, etc....better credit, better rates...

    But if you pay in full each month it just doesn't matter....this is why so many people are in debt to their eyeballs cause they carry balances they can't pay (expecting the CC companies to have mercy) and the credit card companies raise rates thus causing them to not be able to pay their debts. Me as a consumer takes a proactive your bills in full and who cares what they charge!
  17. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Chase Repricing

    May so but the comparison is correct.
  18. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member


    I'm happy you aren't broke. :)
    That's why you don't have to pay close attention to these things. :(

    The account agreement is a contract. That's simple.

    I did read the account agreement when I got the card, and their subsequent notices of intent to breach contract didn't touch most of the details.

    The existence of default rates, etc. in no way proves that they can change the terms as they see fit. Actually, I was rereading their notice of intent to commit fraud, and it says that my "preferred rate" is going to 22.99%. That's the rate for people who DON"T pay late or exceed their limit. This has nothing to do with default rates.

    They cannot change rates at will. There is no such provision in our original account agreement or in any of their revisions. I gave them credit for that. Their contract is more favorable to the cardholder than some. That's why they had to violate it when their greed got the better of them.

    You telling me to read the account agreement is purely a bluff on your part. You've never read it yourself.

    And, of course, your repeated assertions that they can change the account terms whenever they want are pure fantasy. Thinking that it MUST be in the agreement, because they MUST have a right to do what they've done, is circular reasoning. It's assuming that they complied with the contract, which is actually the issue in question.
  19. iambroke

    iambroke Well-Known Member

    *I'm happy you aren't broke. :)*

    HA HA...I was and learned alot by getting myself out of it. Now I pay everything in full each month. Maybe my ID should be iwasbroke :)

    *You telling me to read the account agreement is purely a bluff on your part. You've never read it yourself*

    That is great! You believe what you think and we'll go on from here's your account and just close it if you don't like the terms!

    Oh btw did you receive notice that the rate was changing per chance? They do have to notify you BUT rates can be changed.

    I got the below info from here:

    The interest rate on a fixed-rate credit card plan, though not explicitly tied to changes in another interest rate, also can change over time. The card issuer must notify you before the "fixed" interest rate is changed.
  20. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    A fallacious argument, totally irrelevant to this discussion. I did "live up to the payments." And the rates changed anyway.

    Yes, default rates do exist. Yes, rates can change in certain situations, which are specified in account agreements. That doesn't prove that banks have unlimited freedom to change account agreements.

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