Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Maybe it's because I've spent a lot of time in graduate level seminars where you can disagree, even contemptuously, without people taking it so personally, but here's what I think: I think Butch's behavior in this thread is far more contemptible than Greg Fisher's. (And, Butch, remember what I said about my spending time in places where people can disagree contemptuously without taking personal offense, LOL, so please don't take personal offense. I'm quite certain that you are a very caring AND intelligent individual, and you prove that day after day on this board. Plus... I capitalized the AND because it's always wonderful to find both "caring" and "intelligent" in the same human being.) Anyway, back to the academic mayhem. I find Butch's behavior in this thread to be far more contemptible than Greg's, and here's why: Butch apparently believes that if you disagree with a newcomer and aren't completely polite about it that you may as well have "chased them off." I think that's utter nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who leaves because they can't take a few punches ON AN ANONYMOUS WEB DISCUSSION BOARD probably needs to either beef up a bit personality-wise ("ego-strength" as we shrinks put it) or they really should take a hike. Moreover, I just don't buy the idea that David Kinder, for example, is going to run away like a little kid whose basketball was snatched simply because he's critiqued, positively and negatively, this way and that way, etc. Frankly, and I think David Kinder might agree with me (or maybe not, who knows), I think anybody who posts a big essay like David did here fully expects to receive a variety of comments of all stripes. As a bank employee, he fully understands that consumers -- especially consumers who have had financial difficulties and conflicts -- don't always hold either bankers or Chexsystems (or even Wells Fargo, for that matter) in the highest of esteem. As a grown-up, I'm sure he expects that here. Let's give the man more credit. He's not off pouting somewhere. More likely, when he revisits this thread he'll post a few answers and challenges and agreements and disagreements of his own. There's no protocol here that requires anyone to be polite at all times. Certainly, nobody expects posts about IC Sytems to be polite, LOL. I suppose Chexsystems explicators, whether pro or con, expect some controversy at least. Tip for better living: Let's all don't become so codependent that we're jumping to defend people on behalf of others who haven't even said anything about feeling offended. Doc
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Dictionary.com Contemptible: Deserving of contempt; despicable. Con*tempt"i*ble\, a. 1. Worthy of contempt; deserving of scorn or disdain; mean; vile; despicable. --Milton. My behavior on this thread is 'CONTEMPTIBLE/DISPICABLE"? Oh cmon Doc. That's absurd. Thanx for the compliment tho. lol
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Right, that's the word I chose... I think codependency is contemptible. LOL. I find it absurd that you find that absurd. Doc
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Absurd? Contemptible? Manners are co-dependent? It's getting hilarious. C'mon Doc. GET REAL. Proud to have left the academic community years and years ago..... Here's to good manners. Peace and love on creditnet. And Happy Valley.
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Ok, my hyperbole is getting in the way of my message. Here are my points, stripped of the fun: 1) David Kinder posted some very good and useful information. 2) David Kinder also posted some debatable and potentially misleading information. 3) Greg Fisher questioned David's more debatable points. 4) Greg Fisher wasn't outrageously rude (memory jog... "Happy Valley" anyone, lol?). On the other hand, he wasn't very nice either. 5) David Kinder never once complained about feeling offended. 6) It's usually a good idea to let people speak for themselves. (<-- my point) 7) Most people would understand, whether a newcomer or not, that Chexsystems is a controversial topic, not unlike CRAs, whose systemic explication will naturally engender all kinds of comments, pro and con. (<-- my point) 8) Academic environments are much more real than retail insurance outlets. (<-- ok, I didn't say that before, but I'm teasing breeze, lol) Doc
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Ok, as far as I understand this. What greg is saying is, that certain information that is being passed along to these banking employees is not true, and in fact, is in direct oppostion to federl law. So why is it a bad thing to expose this? I agree, there are people working in industries that have NO IDEA about the laws that govern them. How many times have one of you been told by someone in the collection industry that " it's against the law for us to remove negative information from your credit report, it has to stay on there for seven years?" When in reality anyone who has read the FCRA knows that there is no minimum time limit for reporting negative information, only a maximum. This is the kind of ignorance that I'm talking about.
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Said like a true academic. Reality is not reality. Have a peanut?
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know In response to many of your posts, I'm going to do a little extra homework at the branch tomorrow. I'm gong to look up specifically: Why can't a Wells Fargo Banker tell the declined customer their record(s) with chexsystems? Which law does this fall under? Is this a Wells Fargo originated bank policy? or is it a Chexsystem policy? or what? You guys have got me curious to do a little digging. Regardless of the answer, our banking policies remain the same. I just want to find out "why we do the things we do". As for offending me, I would say that I'm up for a good debate! However, as for changing bank policies, I'm only one person, but one person CAN make a difference. In the interest of keeping a good online community where we can share thoughts FREELY, I would personally appreciate less "bashing" against each other. I'd like to see more constructive postings and thought provoking questions. I understand many people's frustrations with certain systems set up for consumers. The solution is to understand the system, find potential flaws, and move to change the system. That's what I would like to do. I help people understand the system first, then see what we can do to "go around it" if possible.
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Thank you, David. I for one, don't expect you to change the banking industry, I never read your posts that way -- that's an unreasonable expectation anyway. We all work for a living and most here are meticulous if not anal in their sourcing and research -- I think that's a good thing. I also think it's a good thing to know when you've been told to do something a certain way for certain reasons -- where that comes from and what it is based on, something more than someone saying so. If even just for your own knowledge, curiosity and interactions. Imagine the Enron or Worldcom or grrrrrrrrrrrr Sherman Acquisition employees wanting to KNOW and empowering themselves to find out the sources of the information they were providing. I'm not a ewe and you didn't read like a ram to me, baaaaaaaaaa ;-) Power to the non-sheeples! Sassy
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Great idea, David! I'll look forward to hearing how the Wells Fargo folks answer some of these tough questions (if they're able to answer them, of course). Doc
The industry wrote the form: http://www.efanniemae.com/singlefamily/pdf/1003.pdf. I don't see any government agency's name on it as being responsible for its publishing. Please make a link to the part of the FEDERAL REGULATION that specifically requires that information be on the loan application form itself, and that it be seen by the underwriter. Please post the words here. And since the government is collecting all that data, let's get some use out of it. What are the statistics?
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Oh sheetrock I guess I just can't resist. I share many of the feelings expressed on this thread vis-a-vis attacks that seem personal in their nature. It is one thing in a lively debate to attack the subject matter but quite another to attack one's person. I agre with p-doc that this is an anonymous cyber community but the reality is that there are some faint of heart people that take the virtual out of the reality and run off with their tail between their legs never to return again. As for davidkinde I have to give him lots of credit...he has been a stalwart on this thread and I for one admire his tenacity and generosity in offering to further research WFs compliance issues that are directly related to chexsystems as questions regarding chexsystems rear their heads on a regular basis on all the credit discussion boards I visit. So once again let me thank davidkinde for his willingness to contribute and his desire to be a contributing member of creditnet. I think that it is essential to have people from all walks of life on this board including bankers and (oh god forbid) even lawyers no jokes please as I have heard them all). It is in this way that CN will become an even more robust discussion group than it is now. clc
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Great question, Greg. The banking industry is certainly not in it for the charity. Of course there's nothing wrong with capitalism (I'm all for it, lol); but it gets pretty dangerous for consumers when we begin to think that some obviously anti-consumer practices were mandated by our own government. That said, there are many in the credit industry who sincerely believe that they do what they do because it's the law. My funniest example: When American Express said that they could only product transfer me from Blue to the 2% Cash Rebate Card (as opposed to the 5% Cash Rebate Card) "because of federal banking regulations" [direct quote], I asked the same question of that hapless AmEx employee. "What federal banking regulation precludes your offering me whatever card you like?" I asked. The supposedly "world-class" customer service rep became a bit testy and said that she wasn't a lawyer so couldn't answer what I thought was a good-faith question that was directly tied to the load of baloney she threw at me. In her defense, though, she probably believed that there was some such law somewhere because she probably heard that from another AmEx employee or supervisor at some point in time. So many of these so-called laws simply don't exist, as we all have learned here every time some creditor claims that it would violate something-or-another for them to remove or alter their CRA tradeline. Doc
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know DAUGHTER: Mom, why do you always cut off the end of the ham and put it in a separate pan in the oven? MOM: I don't know, honey; Grandma always did it that way. And the ham always tastes sooo good! DAUGHTER: Great-Grandma, why do you always cut off the end of the ham and put it in another pan in the oven? GREAT-GRANDMA: Because we didn't have a pan big enough.
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know Oh my goodness! This is on the nose for some people who do things and don't know why, because it was ALWAYS done that way. My post is not aimed at anyone in this thread. I just had to laugh at this story.
Re: Chexsystems - Everything I know I will volunteer that one time, a certain credit union turned me down for checking based on a Chexsystems listing. The rep. researched the situation, then proceeded to give me every detail of the situation, including the name of the bank reporting.
Don't pay passchecking.com, fsher00, well you can, I wouldn't. The list of non-chex banks is posted on this site, here's the thread: http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?threadid=25282 Passchecking.com became a pay site but used to be the free site that gathered the most input and postings on consumer issues with Chex. It was a consumer advocacy site that turned to a for profit site. Sassy
