collectman posting on wrong forum

I feel the love! Good grief, it should be a crime to suggest that someone pay a valid debt, I mean come on what was I thinking?

He works for a ca and we all know what kind of people they are.

Sure do, and I know what kind of ''people'' debtors are. Point?

His posts are bias and can't be trusted.

Of course they are, and so are yours.

 

i disagree with you completely. Collectman has offered valid advice. Sure it might not be WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. But it's accurate. And he's giving people on this board from another perspective.

 

To give my $0.02 worth, I can understand both sides, but I appreciate Collectman being here.

For one, he's not being obnoxious. For two, we're all biased.

I for one am not trying to get out of paying something I truly owe. I certainly would like to strike the best deal on debts that I can, but am mostly interested in cleaning up incorrect information or begging for old information to be deleted since I have made it out of the 'recent unpleasantness'.

I know that collectors many times treat me as though I'm trying to pull one over on them, but I guess they're just working from past experience. I sometimes treat collectors like they're trying to cheat me, but I guess I'm just working from past experience. I'm intelligent enough to take *everyone's* advice on this forum with a GRAIN of SALT. If you collect enough information from enough different sources you'll eventually find the truth.

I appreciate having both perspectives as long as everyone is civil with each other.

FWIW

 

I think it's great that he is posting here. What better way to "know thy enemy."

Not that he, or collection agents in general are intrinsicly bad or evil, but by they time they are contacted to collect a debt, valid or otherwise, the time for cooperative discussion has often long since passed. Consequently, the relationship between the collection agent and the debtor starts off on a pretty adversarial footing.

When debtors undestand this and how the CAs operate, they can approach the situation more constructively. Having Collectman's posts help tremendously in gaining that understanding.

Debtors (alleged or otherwise) should know their rights. They should also know they might have to fight for them. They should know that bullying by a collection agent is no more permissible than bullying by someone on a street corner, in fact it's even less permissible because the FDCPA specifically prohibits it.

Debtors should know that they have the right to work with the CA in a reasonable, business-like manner. They have the right to the information that says they owe someone money.

At the same time Debtors have the responsibility to pay what they owe. Just as the debtor might have to fight for their right to not be yelled at by a CA, the CA and OC might have to fight to collect the money they are owed. But these "fights" have rules. For as much as either side might like, they aren't free-for-alls.

From reading some of the posts here, the biggest single source of confusion seems to come from people applying some arbitrary form of logic and reason to their situation and being confused when the other party doesn't see that reason. The debtor says "why are they bothering me?" while the CA says "Why don't they want to pay what they owe?"

The more the debtors understand the rules and how the game is played, the easier it is for them to resolve the matter. (That's not to say it'll be easy, just easier).

 

Well put. Any debtor that calls into my office and speaks with me or my associates, as long as the debtor is not being rude towards us we will do whatever we can to make both sides happy. However, if the debtor calls in yelling or using vulgarities towards us...it's our way or the court. A debtor shouldn't have to put up with someone yelling at them or telling them they will sue them when they dont have the intent to do so. On the other hand, me nor my co-workers should have to put up with the abuse we take on a daily basis just to get a debtor to pay a valid bill.

 

There are more than 2 sides:
1) Some debtors are trying to get out of anything they owe, as a lifestyle.
2) Some debtors are simply broke.
3) Some debtors are trying to find out the details of a debt to make sure they pay only what they owe.
4) Some consumers have been erroneously contacted, and do NOT owe an alleged debt.

5) Some debt collectors act in a responsible manner, and comply with the law.
6) Some debt collectors attempt to collect money by whatever means might work.
7) Some debt collectors seek out cheap junk debt, and depend on their knowledge of what they can get away with to make a profit on it.
8) Some debt collectors/attorneys will engage in sewer service, filing in distant jurisdictions, obtaining default judgements without notice, submitting fabricated documents, and other practices they know they can get away with to collect debts, some of which might even be valid, knowing that most debtors are unsophisticated and don't have a clue about how and when to obtain council, if they could even afford to do so.

9) Some creditors keep accurate records, and debts they send to collection are actually owed. If a consumer disputes, they do a reasonable check, and if an error is found, they correct it and pull the account back.
10) some creditors are incompetent at keeping their account records accurate, and their "errors" become collection accounts.
11) Some creditors don't resolve disputes with their customers, but just send the accounts to collections, to "win" the dispute.
12) Some creditors are actually engaged in consumer fraud, know the boundaries of what they can get away with, and debt collectors are a component in ensuring they profit from their activities.
13) Some creditors are purchased, merged, or go bankrupt, and a batch of old accounts, of questionable accuracy, hits the junk debt market.
14) Some creditors do not treat fraudulent accounts as fraudulent, and just sell them off.

Mix them all up, and you have the full spectrum of behavior we see.

Since this is a consumer debt and credit forum, you can expect to see consumers come here with questions regarding problems based on all combinations of the above.

 

I like ontrack's description of the consumer credit world. It does lay out the battlefield well.

 

Most consumers go thru life with little contact with the court system, except when they are subjected to it, due to auto accidents, minor infractions, etc.

At one time, when a consumer and a company had a dispute, if they could not reach agreement, it was still effectively resolved by the passage of time if it wasn't worth it for the business or the consumer to go to court. Each party could still simply refuse to do business going forward and move on.

Today, a disputed account is just sent to collection, as if that is some substitute for dispute resolution or the courts, except the creditor just declares "I win". Or customer service will even tell a consumer on the phone that the account is corrected or adjusted, and a year later, with no paperwork to prove anything, the consumer receives a collection letter, the "debt" was sold, and the creditor "can't do anything about it."

These scenarios are not descriptions of normal, ethical business practices. They are really cases of petty fraud, and the debt collection industry is a necessary and willing partner to it's success everytime they receive a consumer dispute that they answer with "We don't care what happened. That's the information we have, so you have to pay it".

What consumers need to realize is that whereas 20 years ago it was entirely impractical to do much to collect old debts, there is now a whole industry that does nothing but this. We also have a far larger, more mobile population, with more dependence on the credit reporting system to allow the much higher use of consumer credit that is now part of our economy.

The downside of this, is that when you combine larger numbers of alleged old debts, which are passed around for a longer period, with more debt collectors willing to work this debt, and willing to use abusive collection tactics to do so, and national databases that allow finding someone that might or might not owe it, the number of consumers being harassed over erroneous debts also rises.

The damage to consumers being harassed is also higher, since credit plays a larger role in our economy and has a greater effect on consumers' cost of living. The legal and regulatory systems has not kept pace with these changes, nor have the penalties contained in the applicable laws, which can be seen from the continuing rise in complaints against debt collectors. See, for example, the recent FTC report to Congress.

 

Good description.

I know 20 years ago that my Dad walked into his smalltown bank to borrow $10,000 to buy a car. The loan officer was gone for the day, so the secretary gave him the $10,000 and he bought the car and came back the next day to get the paperwork straight. No one was concerned because they knew my Dad would do the right thing.

We're reaping the rewards of a society that is pushed and pulled more into being credit-based. There was a day when people saved up to buy a house. Now, I see people buying a Big Mac with a credit card. I guess we're also reaping the rewards of a less responsible citizenry too.

"Which came first, the chicken, or the egg?" - Are consumers demanding more credit, or is DiTech.com pushing people to use credit, or are the prices of goods and services forcing people and businesses into it?

Who knows, but we all know credit is an increasingly central part of our lives. Thus necessitating that it become an even larger industry with opportunists on all sides. "Where it stops, no one knows..."

 

Your right to your own opinion is respected, but per the guidelines of this forum, and for the sake of its quality and integrity, posting such an opinion is not appropriate, or acceptable.

The essence of this forum is education and information exchange, there will always be differences in opinions and personalities. Attacks on a paticular member do nothing to advance the objectives of this forum.

Collectman does offer a viewpoint that can offer value to some members of this forum. We may not always like, or agree with what he posts, but we all should respect his point of view and information.

I sometimes do not agree with Collectman's posts, but I feel we share the same intent of trying to help those who need it. I do not feel that Collectman is trying to do anything but help, through knowledge and experience, as all of us do here on this forum.

Credit repair is more than a report or score. There is so much psychology of self worth and self esteem vested into our credit reports, that it is easy to slip into that dark abyss and find ourselves in suddenly adversarial roles with "them". We should not allow ourselves to become such personalities.

It is the mix that makes this forum work, of knowledge, personalities and backgrounds. We must all respect those differences, and conduct ourselves accordingly. There is no good reason for anyone to post negatively against any other member. In a sense we are all family here, and we must support and respect each other towards the same goals.

Peeper, again I respect your right to a viewpoint, but for the sake of the forum, more senior members have an obligation to set the tone for the newer members, and continue its cause. Let's focus on adding value to this forum and work together.

 

I have no doubt that there are CA employees who are members on this fourm, and whose motives are in the wrong place. Hopefully, they will find no value here, and move on.

Hopefully they learn that the members are educating themselves as to their rights and options under the laws, and practices of business, and we all can help shape the relationship of debtors and creditors and collection agents.

 

It makes no difference to me if they can log on here and find information on how they think they can make me go away. Send me a C&D it wont make a bit of difference. I will respond with a complaint filed in court for the amount of the debt. So no I dont hate the fact that debtors can log on here and read information. If a nice person calls in and needs information about how to take care of another account, I certainly spend the time and offer suggestions to them to help them out on what I would be able to do for her if the account were in my office. My posts may sound mean, direct, or blunt, but it certainly isn't intended to be taken that way. I give blunt answers. If it's yours and it's valid, get over how unfair you were treated by the OC and just pay it, it makes no difference now that they didnt lower your interest rate, or give you something that you requested. If there is a discrepancy involved, call them get it fixed. I certainly dont call debtors any names, and that shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.