Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred I'm not stating as a fact. I said to the best of my knowledge they don't know. I was told yes they do so I asked how??? Thanks for letting me know.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred That is correct GEORGE. As far as I know, each sequence of numbers indicates different information about the card holder. One is for the state it was issued, one is the range of years it was issued and one is the region of the country it was issued.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred Me too as far as what he said there, I think people are just reading into what I was saying.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred When I was in the Navy we had to show our ID (with ss#) to eat at the chow hall. The guys that checked ID's seemed to be pretty bored most of the time, and came up with this to pass some time. They could tell what state you were born in (usually the same as the state the issues your SS#) and what year with in a 5 year range you were born. They would both guess to see who was closest. They got really good at it after a while. Could even tell if you were born in Northern or Southern California, or what Borough of NYC.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred Just an FYI.... I applied for phone service in Key West with Bell South and during the process they asked for my SS# so I gave them my business Tax ID number. The rep put me on hold and said he was running a check. When he came back on, he said this was a Tax ID number issued by the IRS for businesses, and that if I wanted a business line at the house, i could use it, but if I wanted a personal phone, I needed to give them my social security number. So indeed they must have a system, within their systems that cross check, issued social security numbers versus, Tax ID numbers.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred "IF" THEY WANT A DEPOSIT ON MY CREDIT CARD...FINE SS#...THAT IS ANOTHER MATTER
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Creating a New Cred Yeah....George is right, SSN numbers are related somehow to DOB's. Anyways, I do know that CRA's do have someway to screen for doing a check against your SSN against DOB. On my credit reports, it is notated: Notices: Your date of birth indicates that credit may have been established before age 18. The Social Security number that you gave us when you contacted us shows that credit was established before the number was issued. Gee, maybe that is because those morons keep mixing up an older relatives account history with mine and reporting their accounts on my credit. I mean do they really think I was four years old when I established my Robinson's account?????
SSN Numbers The numbers are not randomly issued; there is a system contingent on where you live when the card is issued, and the year of issue. The credit bureaus can compare your SSN to information contain in the Social Security Administration database. Also, many of them check public record databases for additional verification. Because of the recently enacted Patriot Act, many financial institutions and businesses are becoming even more diligent on verifying social security numbers. As for the EIN, they have a different numbering scheme to purposely differentiate them from SSNs. Therefore, a creditor can instantly tell that the number you are trying to use is an EIN. Many utility companies purchase packages with one or more credit bureaus to do an instant SSN verification. I applied for cable and the clerk on the phone typed in the wrong SSN number. She said I would need a deposit because she could not verify my number. When I made her repeat it, she retyped it and then said - "okay, you're coming up now". We can waive the deposit. For more info, go to this site for an explanation on how numbers are issued. http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/ssn.structure.html My number begins with 404 - which instantly tells someone I was born in or had my number issued somewhere in Kentucky. Which is correct. My 8th grade social studies teacher in Florence, Kentucky made us apply for one.
SSN Numbers LOL I should tell you Slavic that I do not post here to pi** people off. Rather, I try to explain to the more uninformed and maybe even naive readers that there are "alternatives" to better credit out there. Some are legit while others are DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL! I am merely stating a fact. What was being described earlier in this post is not legitimate. The only purpose for doing such a thing is to avoid bad credit. What other purpose could there be? And as far as the whole SSN/how do they know how old you are thing goes.... TRUST ME, they know. For instance, look at a copy of your chexsystems report. If you ever had a checking account, you have this report. On this report it says your SSN, and then curiously, it shows the name of a company whose purpose it is to verify it is valid, and what year it was issued and which state and for whom. If freaking Chexsystems has this info, rest assured that any good sized lender does too. LOL...it just makes me wonder sometimes. I think it is funny when some guy gets this idea (any idea), where he thinks he found a loop hole or a glitch in the system. The truth is, Someone else has already found it. Does that clear it up? I hope to discuss things with you in the future so here is my apology if you were offended by my statement. My statements are never intended to browbeat or make anyone feel like dirt. I was being....colorful! SnakeMan
SSN Numbers OK, this is getting annoying. In a nutshell, for those who were too lazy to click the link above. They can tell how old a SSN by the numbers. Specifically by the group numbers 000-XX-000, represented by the X's in the example. These group numbers are issued in a specific order, and you can find out what the current number is at the SSA website. (This is for the guy who wanted to know how they could tell it was a new SSN by the number.) They cannot, however, determine defintely where and when you were born, especially if you were born prior to the mid-70's or early 80's. What they can determine is where your SSN was ISSUED. This is determined by the area number XXX-00-000, indicated by the X's. Each state was assigned a specific group of area numbers. This information is also readily available on the SSA website. Now, it is often the case that the SSN was issue soon after birth in the same state that you were born in. (In the past 20 years, this has become almost universal due to the requirement of the IRS that you put your children't SSN on the return when claiming them). That is how the little parlor trick that the Navy? (sorry can't remember now) guys were doing works. They guess the state according to the area info and the year of your birth according to the group info. BTW, there are searches on the internet now that will do the same thing for you. My info indicates that my SSN was issued in the state I was born around 1977 or 1978 (I was born in 1974). But for instance by husband was born an american citizen overseas. He was born in 1969. His SSN was issued approx the same time mine was in a state very far away from where he was born. If they were guessing for him, he would be approx the same age as me and born in the same state. They would be very wrong. Hope this helps to answer a couple of questions. As far as a second credit file, anytime you use information with the intent to mislead it is illegal. That includes using Jon Q Public on one app and John Public on another in an attempt to create a separate file. As far as the bank and chexsystems having your DOB, I wouldn't doubt it. You often put that on apps without even thinking. But they do not get that information from you SSN. Maybe from your credit reports tho. . . Oh well, that's enough rambling for tonight. Bye! Myst
SSN Numbers BTW, in case anyone is interested, here is a search to see state and approx date of SSN issue. http://www.free-ssn-id-verification.usinfosearch.com/ Try it on a SSN similar to your own, or just make one up and see what comes back. This also (I think) lets you know if the SSN has been reported to the SSDI (Social Security Death Index). If you number comes back deceased, I'd be worried! LOL!
SSN Numbers The really ironic thing about the whole SSN/EIN debate is that you CAN use an EIN to create a new identity, separate from your old one. BUT, it isn't a personal identity. It's a business identity. And you can't use it as a detour around bad credit, because almost all brand-new business identities require personal guarantees to get started. Once it's started, however, you can use it to keep balances and accounts off your personal reports. And probably get much higher limits than you could personally. Creating new and fictitious identities is as American as apple pie, provided you use legal methods (like forming corporations) to do so. The use of EIN's to identify businesses makes fictitious identities available to average people as never before. Start a business, any business. Get an EIN. And use business credit to benefit yourself.
SSN Numbers Let me make sure I understand you correctly, You say the purpose of starting a business is to gain from the credit your "business" will have or will be able to get? SnakeMan
Re: Re: Creating a New Credit File Listen to what the others have said about being careful. It is illegal to start a new personal credit file because as stated by others it is illegal to use a new social security number unless the social security department gives it to you legally. That means not because of fraud on yoru part. It is virtually impossible to get a new ss# unless you are in a witness protection program or something. A shame but true. Even those that are known by the authorities to have been victims of identity fraud are often refused new ss #'s. It is harder to get a TIN (taxpayer ID) or EIN since the laws have changed. Rather you can get an EIN (employer ID number) but it will, in all liklihood, be tied to your social. If you start a business/consulting practice/massage practice-whatever-you can start a business credit file. This is not illegal and is common practice. No one in their right mind will tie their business liability to their personal libaility and it is not expected, except in the rare horror such as the ENRON fiasco and then, only in the end. Jail, securitues fraud etc. - no way to hide. Do a search on Dun & Bradstreet. These are the CRA essentially for busineesses. They issue numbers etc. I know a trust fund millionare who took out a business line of line of credit because he screwed up his personal credit-don't ask. If I didn't know him so well I'd never believe a trust-funder could ever screw up their credit. Anyway it showed me that having money, even lots of it guaranteed with large lump sums tossed in on significant birthdays does not ensure good habits or a good credit rating. But it can buy you LOTS of help. He, as far as I know, does not know of Creditnet and such..But his CPA and lawyers knew all the laws and possible loopholes and options. Here it is free for us! Anyway I know about this business file info because I ordered and sell this info on my website legally. Freedom of information. the press, yaddah, yaddah......But with stressing warnings about illegalities and focusing folks on the business file info if they choose that right. (they come together and not written by me-if I print up and sell only the business end of it then I risk plagarism/copyright illegalities). Look, before I found these credit help boards I felt hopeless and on and off looked for anything that would help. I did not walk tall, I suffered so many things because of the limitations poor credit afforded me. AND because I felt so bad about myself. That was the main thing. Because though I have had very difficult times, I have never starved, mostly have always had transportation and a job and have always had a roof over my head. Now I am paying a mortgage, thanks to family that cares and knows I am on a mission to save my credit now. So ultimately, the main thing was how I felt about myself and how that manifested in my life/experiences/relationships. Since finding these help boards my outlook has changed 180* I am at the beginning, essentially, of this part of 'the journey' but so far I have had old addresses and old bad tradelines deleted from 2 CRA's. I continue the process and am waiting on CRA responses at this time, ready for action, whatever that needs to be. It is better and worth it to reclaim your own social security number, even if you do start a business/business credit line. It is empowering to know this is even possible AND Federal laws support you! -they cannot be ignored by the Credit Bureaus forever, even if they try to, their abuse has to end eventually-even if it means you have to take them to small claims court or higher. Use the infoemation, resources and experiences of other posts found on this board and others like it. Just try it. You'll see
And the Debate Continues . . . I have a small computer training business for which I have a tax ID #. With just the tax ID, I was able to get a Kinkos and a Staples credit card. I think a business colleague was able to get a T-Mobile business account with just a tax ID #. But for all other types of credit, a SSN is required as well as the EIN. Eventually, my business credit report was linked to my SSN - the more I used the cards and applied for other lines of credit. Morale of the story . . . an EIN is NOT a long-time viable alternative to start a new credit file - or bypass existing bad credit. Almost all credit apps require a SSN as well. The EIN will get you started - and you may get a few minor accounts, but eventually Dun & Bradstreet will link those to your SSN. The databases now are too sophisticated. The smarter alternative is to continue to work on stabilizing and repairing your existing credit file.
Re: SSN Numbers Sure, that's one important purpose of starting a business. Your business can obtain credit for you. I never said it was THE purpose. Another purpose would be to produce income for you. There are many other purposes as well. As far as putting the word "business" in quotes, I maintain that once you start a business, it's real. With a few small steps, anyone can start a business. A business is real even before there are any revenues. In fact, a startup with no revenues probably needs credit more than a well-established business.
Re: SSN Numbers Experieces of business folks often differ but I agree that the more sophisticated the databases get that it will be harder for all of our various numbers to stay separate. This may be the last time in life that it is possible to even open a business credit line without it automatically being linked to your personal info at the very beginning. Business entities can still have an advantage but the leeway may be narrowing as posted above. This is another reason to work on reclaiming one's own social security number which, laughably, is not secure at all. Every government entity (original reason for use) school, doctor's office, hospital, employer, creditor, etc, knows us by our ss number. Maybe this will change...I have a friend who signed up for a college class. She refused to give them her social. They tried to tell her that she could not register and she cited federal law to them, letting them know that were in violation becasue they cannot discriminate against her for that. And that only a government entity has the right, along with creditors (credit is a privelege, not a right, remember) to ask for such 'private' information. Eventually they relented, realizing they'd likely have a huge lawsuit on their hands if they did not comply. And my friend has great credit-She is just concerned about ID fraud/theft. So they accepted a number she made up to identify herself which she can use if she ever needs to transfer the class credits. Even pre-schools and elementary schools (at least the public ones) force you to use only your social security number and do not allow you to enroll your kids if they have no proof of immunizations- the toxicity of some of these is a WHOLE other debate-the microbes they use, mercury bases, using pig and chicken genetic material or some other base that human children/people could be very allergic to to the point of death....... Let me get off that soapbox.....Sorry, I work in a field where I know about these things...Anyway, Be careful with this new credit file business. Reread these posts and let these boards help
Re: SSN Numbers As someone mentioned I believe it is possible to get a new credit file without changing your social security number. And sometimes changing your soc sec number isn't enough to create a new file. Back in college, for no particular reason(I had good credit) I put a different soc sec # in an app for a credit card. I got the card and later when I looked at my credit report the card was reported to my credit file and that social was reported as well as my real one. The programs for credit files don't seem to only rely on the social-- just for fun, me and my brother were able to pull 2/3 of my girlfriends credit reports (with her permission) with only her name and address(he's a mortgage broker). I suspect that how some people are able to get new credit files is merely a matter of changing enough identifying info. Remember that a computer will have a search program that has preset limits on when a piece of information is deemed a match or not. I've seen a guy's credit report who was a twin. His brother had almost the same name and his soc sec number differed by one sequential digit. And obviously he had the same birthdate. When his trimerge was pulled, one report was his, one was his brother's and the third wouldn't even give him a score! Good luck to the poor guy to sort it out! Also perhaps being in a state where an affiliate like csc is, when your normal file is, say, with equifax, helps in the creation of a new file? I've noticed that Trans Union reports a lot of duplicate files(on tri-merges), so perhaps their software is sub-par and more ripe for creating new files. Just some thoughts...
