Credit Clean Up 101 Help!!!

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by creditfree, May 13, 2001.

  1. creditfree

    creditfree Well-Known Member

    I found this group to learn about what my rights are as a consumer, as a debt-ridden individual. I have learned a lot from all of you, and continue to...

    My purpose for clearing my credit is for only that reason. It has been an awful burden, the weight of guilt and depression and lack of funds have kept me from doing anything about it anytime sooner. Trust me, I would have made good on all of it if I could. I didn't file bankruptcy because I didn't think that was the right thing for me to do, and my parents forbade it.

    Oh, and I am not buying a house anytime soon, nor do I need a car.

    So with that said, Most of my debt is from over 7-10 years ago, most of it has gone to collections and even 2nd and 3rd collections. I don't receive any phone calls anymore on Saturday mornings at 8am, however, I do still recieve notices settle with 2nd and 3rd party collectors over the years. According to Experian and Equifax most of these CA's have reaged the accounts and some aren't due to fall off until after 2003.

    From what I have learned on the board, there are many good and helpful people here with good suggestions and opinions.

    Most of you tell me not to pay the CA's not only because 'I've done the time, because the SOL has run out' but because it will start the clock again, and I don't want that to happen. So I won't pay the CA's.

    So I really asked what are my options at this point...
    Send validation, or not to send validation?
    Send C&D or not to send C&D?
    Beg the CRA's to remove the blemishes?

    What about this gym membership problem I have, had I known I would have been lured into a contract, knowing my credit status, I wouldn't have ever signed up for the class...

    As always all of your comments are appreciated.
     
  2. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Well, you certainly seem to have a mess on your hands, but most of it seems to be NOW of your own making in terms of not knowing what to do.

    Not to make fun of you, but you seem to be in about the same shape as Buridan's Donksy. Buridan was a philosopher probably invented for story purposes by Michael Cervantes about 1100 or so A.D. As you may know, Michael Cervantes was a great writer back then and is still considered to be among the world's greatest literary personalities. Anyway, Buridan was a philosopher and in those days, philosophers earned almost nothing and all. Buridan had a donkey and because of his poverty, the donkey usually had little or nothing to eat. Buridan was apparently also quite forgetful didn't take very good care of the poor donkey. But one day, Buridan remembered his poor donkey and having come upon a sum of money went out and bought the donkey a large container of oats and gave him a big bucket of water as well. The poor donkey was so hungry and so thirsty that he could not decide whether to eat first or drink first and so he died of indecision.

    What I think you need to do is to simply write the credit bureaus first and dispute all of those debts which have had no activity for 7 years or more. That will get rid of those.
    Then I would start to work on getting rid of the rest.

    You need to be aware that validation letters and cease & desist letters are great tools when properly used, but you should know exactly what to do with them and how to use them properly or they will do you no good at all.

    Using any of the validation letters that I have seen posted here in this forum is not all that great even though they may very well work. Actually, the only validation letters I have ever seen posted here in this forum is Lizard King's variation of the due process letter by John Gliha.

    John's validation letter is much, much better because it is much shorter and much more to the point while Lizard King has admittedly added a ton of huff, puff and bluff to John's original letter.which prints out to be only just over a page long. It is much shorter and much more to the point and that is good because if you add a bunch of unnecessary huff and puff, you can quite possibly end up with the creditors and collection agencies looking at it and seeing it for what it is and just simply chunking it as being totally frivolous.

    While I do have a copy of John's original letter, I cannot post it because that would violate John's copyrights and could put me in grave legal danger, so I would not want to do that, of course. So all I can do is to kinda review it for commentary purposes which is specifically allowed by John in his copyright notices.

    While John's validation letter is short, and goes straight to the point and is probably pretty effective, it too lacks a few very key points which would render it quite useless if it were ever to be actually attacked by a knowledgeable attorney or collection agency person who actually knew enough about the law to see through it's defeciencies.

    Cease and desist letters are quite pointless after the proper wording has been used in the original validation letter which should correctly have the proper cease and desist terminology included in it. C&S should seldom if ever be needed if it is an integral part of the validation letter which should never be more than about 1 page long.

    And the validation letter is quite useless unless you also know when and how to proceed after sending the validation letter.
     
  3. G. Fisher

    G. Fisher Banned

    http://www.cbc-companies.com/

    I emailed Equifax to ask why there isn't a toll-free telephone number I can use to discuss my credit file. They told me they don't have to maintain such a number because my credit file "is maintained by CBC Credit Services," so my "communication will need to be with them."

    A year ago, Equifax agreed to pay a half-million dollar settlement in the FTC's case against them for not answering their phones.

    http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/01/busysignal.htm

    As stated in that press release:

    "The FCRA is designed to promote accuracy, fairness and privacy of information in the files of every consumer reporting agency. To provide consumers the ability to more easily resolve inaccuracies in their credit reports quickly, Congress amended the FCRA -- effective Sept. 30, 1997 -- to require Experian, Equifax and Trans Union to provide consumers who receive a copy of their credit report with a toll-free telephone number at which personnel are accessible to consumers during normal business hours."

    The telephone number on the report of my credit file I received after requesting it from Equifax was a number to CBC in another city-- which required me to pay a toll. And, when I called the number, it was only a recording with instructions on how to get a copy of the information in my file.

    I'm pursuing it.

    Perhaps you would all like to join me in asking Wink Price-- CBC president-- what's going on. He doesn't return my calls-- but that's understandable. The credit bureaus operate on the premise that the less they say, the better. And, that is true-- temporarily-- when the evidence against them is so damning. But, it only delays things and exacerbates their PR problems so they look like stooges when the history is written. With regard to credit scoring disclosure, they would have you believe they did it voluntarily. Right. Voluntarily-- with Congress, state legislatures, consumer groups, regulators and the media talking about them.

    I've been thinking about starting another thread about this-- and another issue I'm working on. Maybe the title could be: Equifax, toll-free telephone number.

    What do you think, now?

    What is the total of the debt? What is your income?

    See the FTC comments regarding time limits at http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/index.htm .

    See the link above.

    Another option is to pay. Yet, another is to do nothing.

    You either owe it or you don't. If a creditor is violating some law, then you have every right-- and duty as a citizen who cares about decency, fairness and consumers' rights-- to pursue sanctions against them.

    However, if they are breaking no laws, then you are still indebted to them. Even if they are breaking a law, you are still indebted to them. The credit reporting law time limits will pass, and you can have the debts removed from your credit file. But the creditors can still try to collect until the statute of limitations (a separate deadline from the credit report time limit) time is up.

    You borrowed the money and promised to pay it back. What is keeping you from doing that? If you're not borrowing, then why do you need clear credit?

    I'm curious about this "validation" silver bullet. Try it, and give us the results. Will you send the letter today? What fear do you have about doing that?
     
  4. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    Creditfree

    I was referring to the validation letter in the first statement. Anyway. I see that almost a week has past and you are still agonizing over your credit issues. Many of us rushed to give you advise 5 days ago. Many of us have stopped responding to this thread. Our advise however still stands. ERica was NICE enough to post a Cease and Desist letter for your debts which have past SOL. Did you ever tell us your state and the Sol in your State. I hope you send a cease and desist letter soon and start rebuilding your credit.
     
  5. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Thanks for your reply

    I think it's pretty simple, actually.

    Looks to me like we need to consider these (CAS through CZS ) companies, (however many of them there may be) as separate credit bureaus. They do put out a credit report exactly as do the 3 majors, so in order to beat their "insulation" factor, the thing to do is to send the validation letters to all of them at the same time even though it adds an extra step and cost to the process. Each of those C?S Services companies operates in a separate and distinct region, not nationally. CSC operates the central area while CBC operates somewhere else. There are probably about 3 to 5 of them and we only need to worry about the one that operates in the area you live in. So you just send one extra validation letter to the C?C Services company for your area. Then you don't have to worry about it. And if you go to court, you sue one of the 3 majors as well as the C?C Services company and the creditor/collector each one separately. Let each of them answer for their transgressions
    and maybe if enough of us do that, we will break their backs that way. Each having to pay a grand or so a pop for the same offense ought to get their attention sooner or later.

    An example of that is the case of Plaza Associates out of New York. I put them under a cease and desist and they got stupid and contacted some lawyer who wrote me a letter stating that his client had made several attempts to contact me by phone. He also stated that his client had done nothing wrong. OOOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSS! Bad mistake, Mister Lawyer. Now you will be named as a co-defendant and that will keep you from representing your client since you will be named as a party to the lawsuit. Now both of them have to seek competent legal counsel. I wrote the dumbo and told him that both he and Plaza Associates would be well advised to seek competent legal counsel. They will both need one.

    As the Iranians said many times, "Kill all the infidels and let Allah sort 'em out>"
     
  6. creditfree

    creditfree Well-Known Member

    Hello Roni,

    I do appreciate all the advice I have been given over the past few days.
    Actually, I have been constructing the C&D letters, but I'm still waiting on the TU report. I think its better to have all three, since I ordered it and they only send it via US mail, I'll just wait a bit longer for it to arrive. I would have gotten the one you suggested, but the 3rd is on the way.
    My state is FL, SOL is 4 years...I used to be in MI, SOL is 6 years.
     
  7. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    Ok so we know that the Sol is up so if they sue you they can't collect. Which means they wont sue you. They also can't leave this on your credit report over 7 years total or sell the debt and put it back on your credit report. I can tell you 1St hand that this board is addictive. There is so much information here. But maybe you should back away from this argument on this thread

    I would love to see you put this bad credit behind you. If you dont mind telling us, how many of your accounts on the reports that you have already are at the 7 year mark in 2001. You could start sending out deletion request immediately. You would dispute the items as obsolete.
     
  8. creditfree

    creditfree Well-Known Member

    I'll be happy to answer this when I have the reports in front of me. I am at the office at the moment. Tomorrow morning I'll get the C&D letters out.

    In your experience, would you consider one of the three CRA's more damaging than the other? Obviously it could work in our favour because in one circumstance a lender or creditor will only look at one report, and it could be the less damaging one.
    But come to think of it, Sprint ran my Experian, and I managed to have a high rating, enough for them to tell me I could have 4 mobile phone accounts...go figure.

    I ordered my Experian and Equifax online, I can tell you that only one negative item is on the Equifax and it meets the SOL and is with a CA.
    The Experian has 5 negatives all in collections with the exception of my disputed gym membership.

    What could I expect with TU? Seems that all of them are going to be different?
    What have you found on your reports that you don't see on the others?

    I have an old TRW, was that once what Experian is now?

    Yes, this board is really addicting, I'm so glad to have found it. On a scale of credit rights knowledge and know-how, you Roni, have moved me up from a 0 to a 8.5! (I can't claim to be a 10 just yet). I don't want you to feel I haven't read and understood what you have offered in the past few days, I have, but I think you can understand what its like to go from no knowledge to knowing a lot more, its kind of overwhelming and exciting.

    I thank you for all of your help, and I hope you'll continue to offer it. :)

    You mention deletion request...does someone have a format for this, or should I use what PSUgirl posted earlier in this thread.

    Much appreciation...
     
  9. Shantel

    Shantel Well-Known Member

    I tried and tried NOT to respond here but I'm about to fall out here. Roni, Erica...bless you guys...really!

    Creditfree....you have received a bunch of info here. I can't believe after a week, you're still going through should I send this, should I send that.

    It's not overly complicated but it seems you aren't grasphing the 7year time, SOL or almost anything else people are offering.

    The search feature here on Creditnet is great for looking up letters and things of that sort. You might want to make use of it and browse around...see if anything jumps out at you.

    Also, in my opinion, you should be get a book. Guaranteed Credit is a good one. Something you can HOLD that you can read as many times as you need to understand.

    As far as what you should do....start with the easiest. Anything over the 7yr date...you shouldn't have to write a letter. With your CRs came a dispute form...use it. If you don't want to use that, use PSUGirl's letter.

    For the burning question as to what to do about the gym membership....do you have a written contract? If you do, read it. Find out what it says. If you can't find...you might be in trouble. You might want to seriously think about consulting an attorney since you're still new at this. If you were more experienced, I might suggest that you try to bluff them with some very strongly wordly letters or take them to court but you're still really green so I won't suggest that.
     
  10. creditfree

    creditfree Well-Known Member

    Guess what I never received a copy contract, ever. Suppose that is something to go on?
     
  11. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    BBaur,
    Here is one that I found on a search,

    CBC
    PO Box 1838
    Columbus, Ohio 43216

    They also have a physical address its

    CBCS
    170 E Town St
    Columbus, Ohio 43215

    These are CRA and debt collectors. I dont know what agency they are getting their info from.(TU,EXP,EQ)
     
  12. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    please disregard my post I put it in the wrong place!
     
  13. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    never mind I guess I did stick it in the rigt place. I cant believe how many posts there are on this thread.
     
  14. Shantel

    Shantel Well-Known Member

    Creditfree.....

    RE: no contract

    If you never received a contract then you might have something. I don't know how old this is but did you SIGN a contract? They seem to be a little shady anyhow, they may not have a copy of the contract (if you signed one).

    Did you ever make a payment? What year did this thing happen? Is it showing up on all your credit reports? If so, is it listed as a charge-off with the original creditor or is it listed as a collection?

    Is this company still in operation? There are some other little things you might be able to do but you gotta be willing to fight...if all else fails first though.
     
  15. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    Creditfree,

    Your credit reports will reflect different information for several reasons. This is due to many creditors and collection agencies only subscribe to 1 or 2 of the bureaus and some like the credit card companies report to all 3. Example:my Discover card collection was not reported to Transunion.

    I can not comment on PSU Girl's letter b/c I have her on Ignore so I can not view her threads. But If she posted anything other than a simple dispute letter, it is not necessary. All you need to do is send a letter stating that as by the FCRA the item is obsolete besides it has exceeded the 7 year reporting time. If you need a sample let me know and I will post it later. (I have a sore wrist-carpeltunnel syndrome and I am limited my typing).

    I use the sample letters from the book "Guaranteed Credit" by ARnold Goldstein. That book is excellent for someone new because it has almost 30 sample letters to help with credit repair. Every single letter that i have used has come from that book and I jazzed it up alittle bit. Other than that you need a Cease and Desist letter which is not in that book but Erica provided one for you. You can buy GC at any barnes & nobles or order at their B & Ns website.

    I suggest if you have anymore questions please start another thread.
     
  16. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    Lets end the Flame War and move on. I am not interested in pointing out things that I find strange. Also I apologize once again for making the reference to "Fishy" in my posts, I obviousily was making reference to the previous posts, but non the less I was a culprit in the improper use of someones name.

    In regards to your bankruptcy question, Ill name two major reasons. They are FEAR and IGNORANCE. There is hardly a time when a consumer should file bankruptcy. Those are under the strictest of conditions. In our country and in many others, Bankruptcy was written for the corporations not the consumer. It takes too long to recover from a bankruptcy for a consumer and it doesnt make sense when there are other options that are much more productive.

    Also I would much rather talk about the CBC services because I might have something to offer information wise.
     
  17. creditfree

    creditfree Well-Known Member

    It was in '98, I signed a piece of paper that the owner/instructor told me was "for his records". It was explained that I would 'pay him $69 a month', never was it mentioned that I was signing a contract for 18 months and my payments were to be mailed to a collection company. And I never received a copy of that paper from the owner/instructor, apparently his fax machine/copier was not working....shady indeed.

    I made a payment to the owner/instructor to begin the class and pay for the required uniform, I paid by check, which I'm sure he submitted to the CA, therefore it looks as if I paid the CA.

    I only went to this class a few times, when I realized I was locked in a 'membership' and with this CA, I dropped it...the owner/instructor told me that he would put my account 'on hold' until I decided I may want to return, last year the owner/instructor offered me to pay him and he'll get rid of the CA, and last month when the dispute was mentioned on the last conversation I had with the CA, they told me that the owner/instructor insisted that the debt is valid and I should pay in full.

    On Ex and Eq, it is listed as "dispute under FCRA". The CA is the original creditor unfortnuately.
    I emailed the president of the company, explained everything in detail, that's where the 'dispute' mark came from.
    The company is in operation, they mail me once a month and calling me to tell me I owe them.

    Any suggestions?
     
  18. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Well, I'm only guessing, but it very strongly looks like one or more of the 3 CRAs have set these subsidiary C?S services companies up to handle all their requests on a regional basis. For instance, CSC Services in Houston handles all the midwest region while CBC Services handles some other section of the country and who knows at this point how many other "fake" companies have been set up to handle whatever regions of the U.S.

    I think they have done this to help further the confusion of just about everyone and make it even more difficult to get verifications or validations or whatever.

    Here is why I think that. I tell (Equifax, I think) to verify, validate or whatever a report on my credit file. They forward the request to CSC Services in Houston who never sees the letter I sent to Equifax. So they simply ding up the creditor/CRA and find out whatever (if they even do that) and report back to Equifax that the report is true.

    That's not what I wanted at all. I didn't ask them to aske Harry to ask Joe who didn't even have accurate info in the first place. But what I wanted gets lost in the shuffle, which is exactly what Equifax wanted in the first place. Keep the crap on record and don't give me even a fighting chance at a decent dispute and my fancy validation letter might just as well have been used toilet paper for all the good it did me due to their machinations.

    So, I am going to start sending CSC the same validation request as I send to Equifax as I send to Sleazebag collection agency (all 3 letters being closely but not exactly similiar). Since my validation letters contain a C&S statement in them, if any one of the 3 communicates with each other for any reason whatsoever, then I sue which ever one reports that it was verified. My C&S statement would put that into effect. So CSC communicates with Sleazebag and Sleazebag verifies, and then CSC reports to Equifax, each one gets hit with a separate lawsuit for violation of FCRA and FDCPA as the case may be.

    That ought to put a stop to their tomfoolishness real quick.
    And instead of collecting $500 or $1000, whatever the law allows, I collect it 3 times from each one of them because I sue them each separately. And they provide me with their own proof of guilt.

    That's what I'm thinking. Now PLEASE shoot that full of holes if you can so I can see if there is some fallacy in my thinking.
     
  19. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    Bbaur,
    Interesting concept indeed. I can see where you are coming from with the letters to the CA's and the CRA's, but what I dont understand is how we can nail the smaller "insulated" companies or "subsidiaries" as separate entities if they are getting the information form the larger repositories in question. Do you think that it is possible to break down the corporate family tree and see how they are all related some how? It seems to me that the subsidiaries are using their lack of knowledge as a way of claiming ignorance in the situation. Also, from talking to others a while back on another board, I got the feed back that many of the smaller CRA,s that are affiliated with the larger ones are violating other consumer rights like Mr. Fisher was stating in his posts. One such violation is the 100 word statement that they are supposed to allow the consumer to dispute any negative items. I guess that many of the subsidiaries (including CBC) are violating this law saying that there computer system is only capable of adding a 75 word statement. You and I both know that those statements are useless, but they are still violating the FCRA at that.
     
  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Bbaur,
    Interesting concept indeed. I can see where you are coming from with the letters to the CA's and the CRA's, but what I dont understand is how we can nail the smaller "insulated" companies or "subsidiaries" as separate entities if they are getting the information form the larger repositories in question.

    Ahhhh! But that's not what they are doing! They are getting the info from the creditor/CAs and feeding it to at least one of the BIG 3 CRAs, and that's the key to nailing them.
    Creditwrench is well equipped to handle this very contingency.
    ---------------------------
    Do you think that it is possible to break down the corporate family tree and see how they are all related some how?

    Of course, all we need is the information which is the actual names of these subsidiary or insulator companies and their addresses and we are good to go. These can be obtained easily from posters here on the board who get the run around from one of the big 3 claiming that SO AND SO verified the matter and SO AND SO is not the collection agency or creditor to whom one sent the validation letter in the first place. A 3rd or 4th company sticking their nose into the process when they have no business being there in the first place is the answer we need. We could care less whether or not they are associated, subsidiaries or what.
    --------------------------------------
    It seems to me that the subsidiaries are using their lack of knowledge as a way of claiming ignorance in the situation. Also, from talking to others a while back on another board, I got the feed back that many of the smaller CRA,s that are affiliated with the larger ones are violating other consumer rights like Mr. Fisher was stating in his posts.

    EXACTLY!!!!
    --------------------------
    One such violation is the 100 word statement that they are supposed to allow the consumer to dispute any negative items. I guess that many of the subsidiaries (including CBC) are violating this law saying that there computer system is only capable of adding a 75 word statement. You and I both
    know that those statements are useless, but they are still violating the FCRA at that.

    You (I) (we) don't give a damn what their computers are or are not capable of doing. The law says up to 100 word statement and if I make up a 100 word statement and they refuse it saying their system only handles 75 word statement, then they are bloody well going to give me some of the bucks they should have used to upgrade their systems times the number of different 100 word statements they refuse to print that I can dream up and sue them for each and every one they refuse to print. The law says up to 100 word statements and that's what they had damned well better be ready, willing and able to accept or else.

    Kapeesh???
    Entiende????
     

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