Last week I was denied credit and went a got a copy of my credit report. The negative item on my bill was a 350 dollar bill that had gone to collections. The day I received my credit history was the first time I had ever heard or seen this charge. I began to investigate by calling those responsible for this charge. What I found was this. Two years ago my son who was 16 at the time and living in Florida with his mother went to see a dermitoligist for an acne problem. He used my insurance card. The doctor asked my son if there was an adult with him and there was not. The doctor then told my son he could not treat him without a signed relaese form from an adult. Some how the doctor became aware that both my son and I have the same name (from my insurance card is my guess) and told my son to sign his own release form. He also told my son he would need a responsible adult to sign a release if he were to continue treatment. My son returned to this doctor a few times and was never asked again for a valid release form. The treatment on a minor without a release form is my first legal question. Is this legal and if not what can be done? To continue on the doctors office failed to follow the instuctions on my insurance card and submited the insurance claim to the wrong company and payment was deniged because they had no record of me being insured. When my son went to the doctor he listed his address as his mothers in Florida where he was living at the time. Shortly after this he moved in with his grandmother in Florida due to a falling out with his mother and any bills sent to him at his mothers address were destroyed by his mother. I have contacted the doctors office and the collection agency. The collection agency said if the client (Dr. Office) wants this bill back they can have it. The doctor's office says they don't take collections back. Neither the doctors office or the collection agency will send me an itemized bill, or any bill for that matter. My insurance company told me they will process the claim if they get an itemized bill from the doctor. The doctor's office says it's too late for that they want me to pay cash to the collection agency. What I would like to know is what are my rights here and what options do I have?
Per the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) you have the right to demand the ca prove it. Send them a validtation letter, which can be found in the letter section here: http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25 Make them prove the charges. The doctor is just being a jerk. If and when you get proof of the debt, maybe you could submit the claim to the insurance yourself? I would also send a scathing letter to the doctor advising him that since he wants to be nasty about this, you are going to report him to the proper departments in his state for treating a minor without obtaining proper permission from the parent/guardian first. If he still won't play nice, I would then file complaints to the proper people. I bet he'll pull it back from the collection agency then.
Thanks for the reply LKH. The problem with getting the bill from the CA is that it will not be in the correct for for my insurance company to evaluate amd pay. The company I work for is self insured but uses Blue Cross Blue Shield Physician lists, fee scheduals, and medical reviewers. The doctor saw my insurance card said Blue Cross and sent it to Blue Cross vice the company I work for as per the instructions on the card. So payment was refused. Once the bill is properly submitted to the insurance company they will ignore the inflated amounts the doctor hopes to gouge me with and apply the standard BC/BS fee schedual for the procedures involved. This usually amounts to an 80% discount. This is why I need the doctor to get the bill back from the CA so it can be prosessed properly.
Dave, The doctor screwed up, time to get nasty, Send a validation letter to the collection agency, allow 30 days. Then contact all the Fla licensing facilities regarding the doctor and state that you never gave permission to them to do that. Period. You are liable for this debt, so I would take it all the way.
That's basically what I said, except that I would give the doctor 1 chance to resolve this with 1 letter before proceeding to the nasty stage. It would just be alot easier if 1 letter to the doctor would end this nonsense.
What are the chances that written documentation even exists?(just thinking out loud) You may also dispute with the CRA's as *not mine*. <bump>
My son's paitent file still exists. The first call I made to the doctors office I talked with a woman who went and pulled the file. She admitted that this whole thing seemed very irregular and sent faxes to the doctors billing department and office manager. They were both to call me, suprisingly this never happened. I tried calling both several times and after identifing myself to the operator only received voice mail. I was eventualy able to talk with the office manager by identifing myself as Dr. Macguire. The office manager told me the bill was in collections and there was nothing she could do and that the doctors office had not made any mistakes on this account. I am also wondering if I truely am liable for this account. A minor child of mine contracted services illeagally and without my knowlege. Why am I liable? If my minor child decided to purchase an automobile and didn't pay is it now my debt? In addition even if I am liable wouldn't I only be liable for the amount consedered reasonable and prudent?
Great questions! My first thoughts are that this is(more or less) identity fraud(I think). Having said that, I still not sure what options are available. You definately want to file complaints with the BBB, and the Dr's state *officials* offices. Have you disputed with the CRA's yet? It may simply come off that way.
The day I picked up my credit history at the Experian office here in Phoenix I filled out the dispute form and indicated I had no idea what this bill was. I am guessing by your reply that I should dispute this with other CRAs? If so how and should I change the original dispute to reflect the information I now know? As you can probably imagine I am very angry about this whole thing. I am planning on making this as painful on the doctor involed as possible once my credit is cleaned up. Anyone with any good ideas along this line please feel free to post also.
Dave, Just curious, I am in Tucson, and I sued the Experian affiliate, Credit Data Southwest. I assume that is where you got your report. Were the employees there knowledgable or just a bunch of morons. How many employees did you see there? OK, you need to get your reports from equifax at https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumerProducts?^start=& and Trans Union at www.transunion.com then you'll know whether it is on those reports also. If it is, then you need to send a dispute letter to the credit bureaus. You can find one here http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&pgnum=1&postid=85491#post85491 Just make sure you modify it to suit your needs. Also, do not give any info that would enable them to connect it to you. I would dispute it as simply "not my account". Make sure you mail it certified, with return receipt requested.
Yes it was the local office of credit data southwest. There appeared to be two women working in the office. I can't speak to their abilities as I just filled out the request form reviewed the data and the woman at the counter told me how to file the dispute. I am sure before I get this resolved I will have to check the other two credit reporting agencys but at the moment the last thing I want to do is spend one more penny because these idiots could not do their job competently. BTW my credit score before this was 796.
That is an excellent score!! As far as the other 2 reports go, I must stress that I think you should get them now. If you don't, and it turns out that this is on them also, you are going to have to go thru this all over again.(possibly) If you know the situation now, you can handle it now. If you are going to dispute it, you may as well dispute with all 3 at the same time. Just my opinion.
This is bothering me still, as on other threads, yep the same bother ;-). WHY are we not entitled to receive a bill before something shows up on our report and when we can take care of it in a more timely manner? You can't use the FCBA if you don't get a bill, and I'm nodding already on the doctor's office, but it is an extension of credit and open-ended, same as a utility bill. Seems so unfair to me, maybe that's the key, it is unfair to put something on one's credit report without having sent a bill. And, if never billed and never being afforded the dispute provisions of the FCBA, then it is forwarded to a CA, and they just report -- you don't get the initial notice from the CA so the validation provisions can't be addressed in a timely manner either. Seems to me both of those laws were designed to address these things BEFORE being reported in most circumstances, but that's not how they are used. Case in point is Dave's original post, I'm guessing, but by his words it seems to me had his rights not been side-stepped, he would have taken care of this problem when he could and should have -- after receiving a bill from the doctor. It's just nuts that the CR is your first knowledge. Sassy
Dear Dave, The Dr. is a participating member of your ins co. As such he signs an extensive agreement that states, in part, that if they fail to timely file the claim to the ins co. and the time expires, which is 15 months btw, then the Dr. may not demand payment at all. He loses his right to collect! He is in violation of his agreement with your insurer. (All this crap is in HIPAA, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). They know this. Which is why they keep insisting they won't file because it's too late. IT IS! If they file the claim now they will get nothing. But if they press YOU for it they may get something. Try discussing this with your ins. Co's legal dept. They will send a letter to the Dr. outlining what I just said and telling him he may be placing his relationship with your insurer in jeopardy. Make sure they copy you. Give it a little time for the Doc to get the letter (1 week or so) then fax your copy, wait 20 minutes and call them. This should fix it quickly but if not, call your State Dept of Insurance AND theirs. Estimated time 20 days. Good Luck and keep us posted, BTW, you don't want to dispute something with a CRA unless you're sure the tradeline is listed.
Sassy, after reading the FCBA, I was under the impression that it only applied to credit cards, not to all open-ended accounts. I agree with your logic, btw, just not sure this part of the law can be used in this situation.
Sassy you are correct had I known about this bill when it was incured I would have taken care of it at that time. Butch am I as the insured covered by the HIPAA? And if so does this mean that this bill is no longer valid as it was never properly submitted to the insurance company? The company I work for is self insured and processes and pays all claims themselves. My insurance card says BC/BS but I really don't have BC/BS. I talked with the claims person with the insurance department and she told me she would still process the claim. So me living in Arizona for a self insured company and the doctor in Florida, I don't think he would care much if they removed him from the list of preferd providers. I do think I will call the Florida state department of insurance though. BTW what is the tradeline?
I agree with LKH and send the validation letter. I would cease all verbal communication with them. They can't validate the debt, it seems. breeze, says that they are morons. You will be able to rack up a couple of violations on them and in the end get a deletion and maybe some cash. I don't know about Butch's suggestion. It sounds logical, but logical and governing bodies (insurance board) don't =. I agree with Sassy that it is a crime that the only time a lot of us know there is a problem is when we check our CR's. I tell everyone I know you need to check your reports AT LEAST once a year if not more. Charlie
Well I caled the Dr's office today and tried to handle this nicely. I told them my insurance company would process the claim. I informed them that if they would forward me all my son's records and bills, remove the collection from my record, write me a letter stating such and appologize I would submit the claim. They refused. I told them that I was now going to submit my complaints to the BBB, the FMA, the county prosecuter and the insurance board. They said that was up to me but the collection stands. I told the woman she might want to consult with the doctor on this because they had violated several laws and again she refused. Thirty minutes later I get a call from another woman at the Doctor's office. They have decided to forgive the debt and remove the collection. Thanks for all the help everyone this is a wonderful board.
This is great! Did you get any of this in writing? If so, you can forward it to the CRA and request IMMEDIATE deletion. Congratulations, I'm glad this worked itself out.
Gee, it sounds like the doctor might be a little concerned about his law violations. haha Great job!!
