This termination stuff is real. I am just studying up on it so that i can get to the point to try it on myself. If you follow the key principles you can see the validity in the whole thing. And if you read the law you can see the loopholes that they have give to allow people to free them self's. But you must know that you are not free first in order to do anything and you must know the game you are playing. I suggest that everyone learn the game then you can be a better player. Do not denounce what you have no clue about, get a full understanding of it before you toss out loose comments backed and based by nothing or information the same people that hold you captive gave you. A master will never tell his slave how to be free, he will not just give that freedom away neither. You have to take it. Anyone that wants to put heads together on this or has gone threw this process or knows about it please due contact me.
Well I called up one of the companies and spoke with the representative. It's pretty straightforward. In order for a CC company to sue you, they have to show damages/loss. The CC debt they give to you is supposed to backed by real assets/deposits. However, they really are not. They cannot show those actual losses. Just because they write it off as a loss, does not mean they physically lost this cash. Think of Discover. They are not a retail bank, they have no real customer deposits. They may have some actual capital they started on, but they extend credit without any asset backing it. Think of even Citibank or Banc of America. Their Credit Card Services and Retail banking are separate. So where the hell are they getting the money to lend you? It's funny that I learned all these regulations back in school but never realize how important they are.
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs Seriously, anyone who doubts these programs, should do some research. Almost all the credit extended during the tech hype is not backed by any assets. They have a 98% success rate. The cases that do go to court are for people with like 25+ grand owed on one card, in which case the creditor will fight because it is worth it.
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs That's the theory, Pink. Who knows who the original author of that theory was. Some claim it was Tom Schauff and others John Gliha and who knows how many more claim to be the original authors of that scheme. It is mostly predicated on a book once put out by the banking regulators or Federal Reserve as an explanation of how the monetary system operates and was never law. Whoever it was that came up with the idea of debt cancellation attempted to get the courts to rule that it was indeed law and the courts simply never went along with that game. One fellow in Ocala, Florida came up with the idea that you could send them a check for $10 that had "Paid in Full" marked on the back of it and that paid off that new car you just bought or your home. He also came up with the idea that if you did not like the idea of being forced into arbitration you could set up your own arbitration board and have it award you a huge amount against your creditors and then wait till the fool sued you and show the judge your award and that would be the end of the creditor's case. Such ideas have a solid reputation of getting people to spending a lot of years in jail. The fellow from Florida got the idea that his so called work was worth up to $3,000 and more but has now shut the plan down and started a new one. Same time, same place, different station. I happen to know a lot of people who are somewhat less than happy with that fellow.
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs When you use a credit card for purchases the merchant gets they're money. The money to pay the merchant comes from somewhere so I don't understand how the banks just creates it. Sounds fishy to me. If the program works, why would it need to be advertised? Word of mouth should give plenty of business....just like drug dealing.
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs I agree with Bill here. This sounds a lot like some of John Gliha's more questionable theories, and a jail sentence may well be the natural consequence of their practical use. Doc
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs Hi. Kinda nice to be back. Hi Doc. As to Gliha & Co. I've railed against him and his Looney Tunes ever since day one almost. He was the producer of the validation letter and that was probably his crowning glory even though it does have some rather illogical factors in it. Although I have no proof whatever I strongly suspect he may well have been the author of the estoppel letter as well. I don't know of anyone ever having gotten into any serious trouble over their usage but its a well proven fact that it makes little difference whose validation letter one uses since they all seem to work about equally well. But when one gets so far off the wall and out to lunch that he thinks that he can pay $10 to escape a few thousand in debt he simply isn't the sharpest tool in the shed by any stretch of the imagination. And maybe even worse to imagine that one can just get his neighbor, his cuzzin and his old fishin buddy and he has an arbitration board is preposterous to say the least. After that it don't make much difference what one says or how he says it or how much success he may claim to have had. But even though one may tend to doubt his methods and more one still should not discount John Gliha completely. The man has obviously done an awful lot of research and he has provided lots of good and valuable material in his books. All it takes is the knowledge and the ability to sift the few grains of wheat from all that chaff.
Re: Re: Re: Debt Termination programs Bill as much as you have helped me and as much as i respect you i must dis-agree. The fact is first and fore most our money is backed by nothing, please understand that. It has been years since our money has been backed by any real commodity. Fort Knox does not have enough gold to cover the amount of money in circulation, that has been stated many times. Second of all the federal reserve is about as federal as federal express. If you can track down a book called Modern Money Mechanics you should, it use to be published by the federal reserve. Also read the federal reserve act that states how private bankers dictate the federal reserve. And as fora scheme no it is all broken down in the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, it speaks on money and it's instruments and what is considered discharge. Did you know that it cost one thousand dollar to print up one million dollars, does that not seem strange or wrong. See my old post on this same thread in regards to that. then we have validation, they must prove that they gave you money. When you get a credit card with a 5k limit. Who has 5K is that five 5k in a bank account?? no they just say that you can spend up to 5K. But they never give out more than a card. when you use it it should debit an account but it does not. IT notates usage, it does not remove money from anywhere. General account just floats the number, kinda like Worldcom and all the others that do it. This is nothing new. If they have given you money they should be able to show a debit in there own accounts. But they can't. IF i lend out money and take it out of my account there is a debit that is tangible and can be seen. They give you a credit card and what has happened. Nothing they gave you a card that they actually say that you don't even own and they can request back or cancel. Bank gives you a loan, before that they check your credit, but no one checks there's, we assume cause they look like they have it that they do. They make and get they money wen we sign promissory notes and agree to pay them it. They never ever give us money or any real commodity. Even with the promissory note they don't tell you that 9 times out of 10 they will sell your note to another lender, they call it moving soft paper. When that is done they are in violation, but banks do it all the time. They are in violation because there is lack of disclosure, then lets say that you finally dig your way out the whole and pay the debt off you never get the original promissory note back. Why you ask because the person your paying no longer has it they sell that stuff to bigger banks and finally to the federal reserve. So now they have gotten your money plus the money they make off of selling your note and interest and you never even get the official note. People this is a crooked system to begin with just learn it so you can live better in it. Finally ask yourself this if i hold up a bank without a gun for 25k i get jail right, yes i do. Now if i run up 25K on my card and don't pay it back what happens.....i get a bad notation on my credit report and maybe a judgment and possibly they may try and garnish wages. And if you have no job or they can't find your job there is no garnishment. But no jail time never. Why because the money we spend is not worth anything. Ask yourself why the English pound is worth more than the U.S dollar, we are the U.S right we are suppose to be the biggest baddest most advanced right . The difference is there money is backed by something of really value they have commodities that back all there money, Gold, Silver and so on.Those are commodities those will always have value always, weak economy or strong. Does not matter. It was even told that prior to Operation Desert Storm Iraq's dollar was worth three time the U.S.. Please open your eyes people, there is a alot to take in. And Bill i know you can find all the truth so please seek it out.
Re: Re: Re: Debt Termination programs t_sims224, I have the book and I even gave a book report on it at a recent meeting and I am well aware of all your statements and I don't disagree with them at all. I think that every one of your arguments are as valid as the gold that originally backed our money. But that is not the problem we face in reality. It is getting or forcing our corrupt systems to accept it and change it to be something that it should never have quit being. It is something akin to Humpty Dumpty. He can never be put back together again. Well, maybe they could put it back together again but if they did the economic pain would be so great that it would nearly throw us back into the dark ages economically speaking and maybe even practically speaking. It is a fight that the common man cannot win and especially since he has no heart or will to do so. The common man is pretty well satisfied with the status quo or at least he is not willing to do more than make statements like "There oughta be a law" as he shifts his gaze back to the football game and the beer can to his lips. Until he is willing to do more than that, nothing will change no matter how much we rail against it. Again, your points are well taken but what I additionally rail against is a man charging $3,000 for his books and a few telephone conversations if you can ever catch him. And if what he gave were truly worth $3,000 and more and he would at least speak to those he has agreed to help instead of just shutting his operation down and opening a new one with the same stuff then I would not disparage him. I can well understand that irregardless of it's worth he has put a tremendous amount of effort into producing what he sells and he has bills to pay just like anybody else. Those of us who charge whatever amount of money, be it small or be it great need to be certain that what we give is worth whatever we charge and then some. And we need to be listening to those who complain about our work or our service because they are our best friends rather than our enemies. You say that I have helped you a lot and I appreciate your saying so but I need to appreciate you as much or more if you said that I did not treat you right for the simple reason that it is from such as you that I learn how to do things better so that you have no reason to complain. John Gliha does not do that. If you dare to rail against him in any way he shuts you out like a skunk in the chicken house. That's simply not right. Its downright criminal in fact to treat people that way. And all of us, no matter how intelligent we may be do make mistakes from time to time. The measure of a man is his ability to take criticizm and use it to cure the cause of the criticizm if at all possible. But all of that aside, please do not think that I take exception to your points at all. I only say that I see no practical way for us to return our economic situation to what it once was and what our forefathers envisioned that it should be so while we may disparage the system as it is we also must be prepared to live with what we cannot control.
Regarding the debt termination program we have been discussing, here is a posting from a group that is complosed of people discussing the Gliha due process program. Messages like this come in many times a day from people telling their tales of woe. Please remember that whoever John W. is he is not likely to ever see this post or know that it exists here on creditnet. His message was posted in a yahoo groups forum. So don't try to answer him because you won't get an answer. This is just posted as an example of some of the things people have been complaining bitterly about.
Ok but we are talking about the current programs. There is nothing illegal about them and in fact a lot of these banks do get fined for lending out over their Federal Reserve Requirement. There are laws and regulations in place, mainly due to the fact that the gold standard was abolished and the country was at risk of being flooded with worthless money. Personally, I think it's worth a shot for someone like me, where I have Discover which will sue me in about a year and Midland's pain in the ass problems. I feel the combination of FDCPA violations on Midland and the Debt Termination will put Midland in its place. As for Discover, the rep told me that they are one of the more common creditors that they get to deal with and they are no problem (Discover has no assets backing their credit at all). You will have damaged credit (charge off) so it's not like this is the almight perfect solution. It's to avoid judgements. The only cases that still end up in court are people with card accounts of 25 grand and up.
Discover has no assets? They are a real live bank that takes in deposits and makes loans. They are also a subsidary of Morgan Stanley. You guys are about to get torched.
Yes, the debt termination program does work. At least the one I had did. It did not cost 2-3000 either. I know at least 5 different parties that used it and got rid of 15,000 the smallest debt. The largest was close to 100,000. You must have an unsecured card and follow what you are supposed to do...to a T. The cost was 525.00 or 1525 with help. It is also a money back guaranteed program. It takes about a year and then you straighten up your credit
Re: Re: Debt Termination programs Hahaha LOL and thats where my friend you fail to see the facts. Discover Financial services that is the credit card department IS NOT A RETAIL BANK. Their retail bank part is under a different name completely, not owned by Discover Credit Card and is very small scale. I've been in most of the Northeast as well as the West Coast and never, never seen a "Discover" bank. Morgan Stanley is an INVESTMENT BANK (with Dean Witter doing financial services). Investment banks cannot loan money to the public. Brokerage firms cannot make consumer loans either. That means their assets cannot be used to back Discover. So even lets say that Discover card uses their small scale retail bank as assets backing the deposits. Do you even have an idea how much credit they have flowing out in the public? Do you honestly believe they have enough deposits even at a 30-40% Federal Reserve Requirement? LOL count it up. Regardless, look at Citibank. Citibank N.A. and Citicard are two separate entities under one umbrella Enterprise. They do not even communicate with each other, at least not how we would expect. Citicard cannot track down your Citibank account. Thats how separate they are. Now how in the world would they coordinate their assets requirements? Well I know that they keep lending and lending (both directly at Citibank and through Citicard), but certainly their deposits are not growing that much at all. Originally, a retail bank would get enough deposits and then start giving out consumer loans. Credit cards are considered consumer loans. These have to be backed by REAL MONEY. When their deposits increase, they try to give out more loans. No current credit card issuer does that nowdays. They start out with a base capital and then just lend lend lend and lend. They make money from you, make you fall into a debt trap and make more money. As a business that takes credit cards, when your customer pays with CC, you sometimes have to wait as long as a month to really get that money. It really depends on many factors and varies, but the key is that sometimes the CC Company does not really have the money to give you. I remember this happening at a restaurant I worked at. The CC kept stalling for almost 2 months. Yet sometimes, they would pay up within 2 weeks.
That is quite true. Nothing illegal about them that I can see and I've never seen any of the due process stuff that was illegal. Just not well thought out nor practical. Well, just to get picky for the sake of the education of those who may not know about that the requirement you speak of is a required amount of cash reserves they are required to maintain in relation to their total loan portfolio. That is so they can service their loans that go bad without going broke. For the large outfits like Discover that reserve is in the hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions. That's why Providian and some more of the subprime cards have recently found themselves in hot water with the regulators. Not enough cash reserves. Good point you made there. If that were the case they failed miserably because our nation and the world is awash in worthless paper money. You said so yourself if I remember correctly. If you say so. I'll not say you are wrong but I sure would like to know how you made out when the smoke clears off the battlefield. Well, somebody is likely to get put in their place, that's for sure. Glad to know that. Comforting, isn't it? Whoa! What about all those millions and billions of cash reserves they are required to maintain by the feds or get shut down and put out of business? If memory serves me correctly Discover is a subsidary of Citibank which is most assuredly one of the largest banking institutions in the entire world. Maybe I'm wrong on that score but in any case they sure aren't subprime by any means. Oh Yeah! Now I remember. They don't have any assets because the so called money is worthless and only backed by the full faith and confidence of the American people and the world for that matter. Ok! I'll buy that. But the full faith and confidence of the American people if not the world has got to be worth something. You got that right! So what? Less than 20% of all judgments are ever collected on in the first place and most judgments are more worthless than the paper money we all rail against. They are usually null and void upon their face. Yep. Gotta agree with that too. Up or down, plus or minus. By the way, did those figures come from Discover, the bank regulators or John Gliha?
